First item I get as Mord is the recipe for Warmogs. I never have to go back to the fountain unless I die, have less than 20% hp, or have 1500+ gold.

I've seen too many people win because they have multiple Warmog's.

Also, just to throw this out there.. Their cost is being reduced next patch, and..

New item. Forget the name but if your hero goes under 40% HP, they gain 150 Mag Armor for 4 seconds, and it auto-uses every minute.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 12 2010, 2:44 am by Rammus.

Also I saw that Warmog's and Rod of Ages may be getting higher initial bonuses along with an equal reduction in the max bonus you get later from the passive, basically meaning they would be better initially than they are now and will get maxed out sooner.

Cheaper warmog = more powerful Mordekaiser

Just won my first random public match
6-7-17 as Veigar. Our Tryndamere and Sion fed the other team a lot in the beginning and we got raped several times in mid/late game, but they didn't use these opportunities to push enough as a team to take more than one creep building. Towards the end we got better out of the team battles and managed to push through in mid and a bit later in top.
I'll probably buy Veigar next, unless I discover someone else who's awesome

Veigar should NEVER have more assists than kills, unless you're getting stunned after like your Q spell...

Why? Some people play to assist their teammates and don't care about their kills.

He's got two spells that are two-click (q+right click, r+right click), and should easily deal over 1500 magic damage, in addition to Q's unbelievably short CD.

Played a couple of games with Zany, that went...er...no words, he just needs to learn map awareness. Also, nearing 3000 IP and thinking about getting a hero, what to get though? Maybe Rammus, or maybe I'll just stick with Tryndamere as a tank instead, he's also twice as cheap! Seriously my only heroes right now are Ashe, Yi and Veigar, maybe I need a good tank. =(

if youve played rammus before, buy him
i dont want to spend IP so i might buy RP just for Rammus :3

Some decent champions are, Garen, Xin, Poppy, Mord lol I like melee champions =)

Mundo is a good tank, as well as Nasus (godly tank). Some others I can think of are: Nunu, Amumu, and Vladamir.

Quote from ThedarKOne

Mundo is a good tank, as well as Nasus (godly tank).

Mundo=burst and dead.
Nasus actively discourages attacks, through his godly ultimate attack bonus and native lifesteal. When coupled with Hextech and other AP items, he's damn near unstoppable.

Everyone forgets Malphite, though. He's my next buy after I get roughly 600 more IP, AKA later today. IMO a perfect tank combo would be Malphite for physicals and Nasus for mages (with my build, at least). They also both deal plenty of damage, so the rest of the team could easily wait and hop in after half a second or so after most people commit to their targets.

Since I have some time for this now, first and formost, Warmog's is not necessarily a bad item, its just that it is very item inefficient. At max, you have about 1100 Extra health, and 100 HP/5. While HP/5 is good, it is only really effective if you get a spirit visage as well for the increased percentage of healing. The only character that is actually semi viable with a mass amount of health regen (over 100) is Mundo, due to his ult, and the fact that SV is part of his core build.

Pure health will do nothing for Mordekaiser, since stacking pure health means that you forgo resistances, making you take more overall damage, as you haven't even hit the easy to reach 50% reduction mark at 100 armor or 100 MR. With no resistance items, you'll have about 80 Armor and 54 MR, meaning you take about 56% of physical damage and 65% of magic damage, compare this to with a Sunfire Cape and a Force of Nature, which would net you 125 Armor and 130 MR, now meaning that you take only about 44% and 43% of both respectively.

To buy a Warmog's, you need 3120 Gold. We'll say 100 creep kills to max it out, with an average of 20 gold per minion, so 5120 to get the full effect of Warmog's.

Now, with no items you would have about 1940 health at level 18. Stack a Warmog's and you have 2710 health. Get attacked with 1000 points of physical damage, and you take about 560 damage, 1000 points of magic damage would result in 650 damage taken. Respectively, that leaves you with 80% and 75% of your total health left.

Fully stacked that's about 3160 health. Get attacked with 1000 points of physical damage, and you take about 560 damage, 1000 points of magic damage would result in 650 damage taken. Respectively, that leaves you with 82% and 80% of your total health left.

If, instead of a warmogs, you buy a Sunfire Cape (2510) and a Force of Nature (2175, for a total of 4685), and you would have about 2400 health with 125 Armor and 130 MR. Get attacked with 1000 points of physical damage, and you take about 440 damage, 1000 points of magic damage would result in 430 damage taken. Respectively, that leaves you with 81% and 82% of your total health left.

Now, you can see that after 1000 points of physical damage, you take 1% less of your effective health with JUST a Sunfire cape, and 7% less of your effective health with JUST a FoN and a Giant's Belt. If you take both items, you can see that you'll not only have more effective health, but you also have higher movement speed (due to FoN, and the extra gold to buy boots), so you can actually run if needed instead of getting dunked on while hoping that your minuscule HP/5 will save you, and you also have higher DPS due to the Sunfire cape.

Furthermore, neither of these items snowball, meaning you can buy them in pieces with no deficit. Got a giant's belt but need more MR? Not a problem! Throw it in there and put off the sunfire for a few minutes, it wont hurt by the time you are level 18. But need one instead of a Warmogs? Well, that's 5 minutes of creep killing bonuses you just lost! You'll also find that with FoN, you'll regenerate 42 HP/5, which is higher that a Non-Stacked Warmogs. Interesting.

You'll also find that either of these are easily interchangeable. Got a negatron cloak, but need more base health? No problem! Turn that shit into a Banshee's, and even get to block spells every 30 seconds. Got a giants belt, but need more damage? Rylai's! And you'll even help your team by AoE slowing enemies so they can't run away this time around! You could even turn the NC into a QSS for a free cleanse! And plenty of others.

TL;DR, you'll find that Warmog's is too expensive to warrant the price. The HP/5 is negligible compared to other other similar items which give you resistances. Some item's with resistances will even give you more DPS. You can even interchange items with similar results to fit needed roles on your team (As you should, you should never use a cookie-cutter one-fits-all build. Ever).

Warmog's is bad. Unless you are cho. Then it's hilarious.

Also, with a few wards, some AP and a ton of stacked JitBs, Shaco can solo baron at level 1. Fun fact.

Correction: Mundo = Ignite and dead. Nasus is godly though

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 12 2010, 6:46 pm by shmeeps.

Greatest strategy: Have Chogath stack HP items so he gets really big then during team fights hide your squishes BEHIND chogath so people can't target him.

Shmeeps is absolutely correct. You should never get warmogs on any champion ever, and just the same you will NEVER see the top tier players get Warmogs. The fact that Riot is going to buff warmogs is evidence that even Riot acknowledges the fact that it is too inefficient and you lose too much in alternative costs, especially at its starting empty state to justify the investment.


You probably aren't aware, but the spell vamp gain is reduced to 33% effectiveness if the spell is potentially AoE, even if it only actually affects one enemy. This means you're getting 3% spell vamp on each target from your hextech revolver on Nasus's Spirit Fire, or Mordekaiser's Siphon of Destruction.

On Nasus's ult you deal 5% (at level 3) of enemy hp around you (max of 240 damage). If you had 13% Spell vamp (gunblade) you would gain (.13*.33*.05) 0.2% of their health from that target each second. If you dealt max damage you would gain 10 hp from that target a second (in order to deal max damage your target would need 4800 health). If you had ALL Five enemies around and dealt max damage to every one of them you would gain 53.625 health a second for the duration of the ult. Each enemy would have to have 4800 health to deal the maximum damage to them (not going to happen) and have NO MR to get the 50 health a second. In a realistic situation you'd be lucky to get 18 health a second total while having all five enemies around you. In other words, nothing. Nasus doesn't get spell vamp on his Siphoning Strike because it deals physical damage.

Dorans are good because you get a huge advantage in the beginning by having 120 more health than your opponent and allow you to stay in lane, thus getting more exp and gold from last hits. Doran's Blade is especially good because the stats are all ones that are good for the AD carry role outside of the laning phase (LS scales, regen doesn't).

Four Doran's Blades would cost 1740 gold and give you:
480 health, 24 damage, 16% life steal

The cost of these stats combined are 1238.4 + 888 + 600: 2726.4 gold worth of stats
If you watched the WCG tournament that ended recently (US victory), you'd have noticed that most AD carries got as many as 3 Doran Blades before investing in larger items.

Of course, and I based my critique on this idea.



You obviously have no idea how to play Mordekaiser. His job is to deal a ton of damage around him while being an unkillable machine (and to take out the enemy carry with his ult, and then proceed to murder his teammates with him). His passive is not a distraction, he is his passive; its the sole reason why he's so hard to take down. Spell vamp is the wrong stat. (As is warmogs the wrong item for him)

Take Mordekaiser's ultimate, for instance. 4% of their hp for 8 seconds (32% of their health). With Hextech revolver you gain an additional 3.2 % of their hp in health, so 37.2% of their health you gain in health (while dealing 32% of their health).

Instead of Hextech Revolver, lets get an item thats actually good on Mordekaiser- Spirit Visage. With spirit visage you're gaining 38.4% of their health in health (while dealing 32% of their health) AND buffing the amount of health your passive shield generates by 20% (something spell vamp won't do for you) each tick of the ultimate. The difference in gains you get from SV over HR only widen as your AP increases. "But you don't get healing on his other abilities"- So? all his other abilities are AoE meaning you get 3% spell vamp on them. Spirit Visage gives you 20% greater gains on your passive (which is 25% of your spell damage) which means you get (.25*1.2) 30% of your damage in your passive (isn't affected by the AoE 66% efficacy loss), effectively 3% spell vamp vs 5% gained spell vamp. The SV passive also synergizes with FoN's passive, which is a great item for Mordekaiser since the MR makes his passive shield stronger and keeps his health up below it.

And then there are cost disparities:
Isolated from the AP, the 10% spell vamp costs you 400 gold
Isolated from the rest of its stats, the Spirit Visage passive costs you 163.4 gold

The hp % with my Nasus build is at least 8%, and the damage done doesn't cap at 240. The attack is what caps. His AoE also will deal over 120 per second, in addition to lowering armor. Don't forget that Nasus has both native lifesteal and lifesteal from the Gunblade. Which means that he gets 35% lifesteal from all attacks, including Q, and he can easily do 300 damage on one Siphoning Strike. While you're right that Siphoning Strike does not proc spellvamp, it does proc the larger lifesteal. Fair trade, imo.

I'm not going to argue anymore (because you're always right), but when you criticize an item, criticize all of its stats.

To get 8% drain you need 300 AP. The damage does cap at 240dmg/sec (which is what I meant earlier, I apologize if I was unclear). 120dmg/sec will generate 5.148 health a second per target it hits if you have Hextech Gunblade. I talk about spell vamp separate from other stats because you can get those other stats in other places. My point is simply that spell vamp is a worthless stat that's relatively expensive. Spell Vamp is especially useless on Nasus because he only has two spells that it applies to, both AoE and one a long cooldown ult.

The activate of hextech can help get you a couple kills per game usually. Also great for getting assists for heroes who don't have aoe damage.

My ideal Mordekaiser build* **. I start with pure health.

*The last item would have been a Banshee's Veil.
**The item list you see is from the third game from the top.