This seems like the biggest waste to me- using the defiler for a role like this. With all the potential of having an exclusive defiler it is not even used for any of the spells. Aside from the ability to use dark sward normally, a scantid may as well be the summoner- give it something else useful instead. Using a defiler's dark swarm for spells could prospectively make it the character of most flexibility and potential.

Then the Summoner would lose Burrow, Plague, Dark Swarm, and armor upgrades... Good idea, but Summoner would be nerfed quite a bit, especially if you change it to a Scantid...

What might be cool would be a High Templar for the Summoner that can use Hallucination (and maybe Psionic Storm?).

It was an exaggeration; obviously you wouldn't want a scantid.

That'd probably compliment better anyway.

What I'm trying to get at is that the defiler is lame compared to what it could be- especially since another unit, with a few changes, could take on the same role.

Dark swarm kicks ass, hallucinate couldn't replace it. It becomes clutch in the end game (where most games don't end) when you need to have your spawns keep up with the level curve. I think it interacts well with the class in general, and is a rather integral part of the class whether or not you use it.

Summoner's lv3 spell is sexy lol. I've never used it before until a few days ago and it really works well with my style since I don't like to keep the defiler at the temple.
It's like a hybrid of summoner+medic.

Still, it's 6 civs to get to it that would otherwise be in mana/upgrades. Against a good team you don't have that luxury.

You can change the summoner to a ht and make Unclean One a new hero using dark swarm as an attack

I think swarming cannons is pretty broken. More broken than a +3 rine. Swarm should be immediately remove when it is over a cannon via centering a location on it. The only thing that keeps it in check right now is that killing cannons still isn't always in your best interest(which is stupid).

Swarming cannons is only broken against a fully ranged team. Otherwise any team that can't kill the summoner is pretty bad. The only classes that are useless in swarm are hydra, medic, mech and volt; and two of those can even deal splash damage to units.

Swarm is pretty much the only reason I like playing summoner, it's defenseless out of base without it. I tend to play summoner out of base for most of the midgame, until I lose two lives. Then I temple camp.

Be serious guys.. let's not fix what's not broken.. Defiler Summoner works great with Consume and Dark Swarm. I don't really need to be fancy with the dark swarm triggers..
Sure, other units can take the role, but Defiler works too. It's simple enough. Using Dark Swarm for all spells is a bit too complicated for my initial liking.. I just wanted to create a Simple, but Deep game.

@ Kaias.. CAFG was probably half drunk when he wrote/edited the front page.. He was SO so breif... I'm pretty sure if he really sat down and redo it.. there'd be a lot more things to talk about.

@2 unit hero.. no.. can't do it with the current trigger system... :C

@v1.5 .. I've been working hard and procrastinating.. and I've decided against using aldaris as new hero.. because it'll just fuck things up too much... I've also decided to take out Vulture as the new hero (which i never went around to do .. so yay!).. since Mutant occupies the "agility" theme... Critters are also too complicated.. so what's left?

Lurker....

so basically.. I have 1 more hero left to do... with the other 2 new ones completely fixed already.. the new beta version of v1.5 will probably be out soon =D.. I'm releasing the beta in order to test the balance of the new heroes, buildings, and terrain... So guys.. the wait is ALMOST over!

if you do use the lurker as a hero, would mutant's Lv3 still be the lurker spell?

Yes.. .. I'm probably gonna go back to spawning 16 lurkers with 1/2 the dmg.. instead of eight

I am sorry if i am not readying 79 pages of text to be sure it has not been said before, but i find lurkers WAY too overpowered...
It might be only because i am a newb and played only 3 games, but each time someone had the mutant and attacked me with the lurkers, it was impossible to survive for me...

Might not want to change it, becaus it may only be because i am a total newb

I have made it so that there's some spell effects.. soo u'll get a warning before it strikes.

It's been mentioned a few times. Basically, armor counters lurkers, among other things. You should also see them coming and dodge the second spike from the lurkers almost every time.

eh, all i can say is that this is the starcraft map i play 80% of the time lately, good job Unholy
i'm looking forward to the next version

i'm not going to complain about balance either, i found that the reason this map is so good is because you actually are forced to use strategy and teamwork more!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 8 2009, 6:59 pm by Spacemushrooms.

I've found this discovery a time ago.
As medic hero, if you already have a medic near you and you create a medic with spell1, the first medic's energy turns to 170 and the new one is at 50.

Yeah, I posted about that a long time ago. Never fixed it for some reason.

It'd either be that, or it sets all the medics to 170 ..

No, you would just need to use Create Units With Properties...