...Eh? Golden Rule?

You don't count.

EDIT:
Oh, hey I missed Tooth guy's post up top. Sorry.

If somebody is stupid and does something to risk your life, other laws can imprison them and keep them away. The reason you should not murder someone is not in fear of imprisonment of yourself, but in amusement of impronment of the idiots... is that optimistic enough?

No, because the idiots are living comfortably inside a prison, getting meals 3 times a day, watching TV, and just 'chillin'.

I think V says it in V for Vendetta, though if he doesn't it's some other british person. But the people should not fear the government, the government should fear the people. If the people are unsatisfied with the jailing system and how these people are being treated equally they should lower human standards in a massive riot against human rights and get change... saying that though it's not particularly practical... but it is possible.

Also... you're now saying that it's pesimistic because the aspects of jail are optimistic... in which case your mind is already set and what you're really asking is 'Why can't we torture people that drive poorly' or something like that... and that's because it's fucking stupid. If they drive poorly, remove their liscence. You do not make them lose their life because they endangered yours...

Hes obvously on number 7, which looking at todays standards is a good Kill to Death ratio

I'm a peaceful person by heart. If someone pisses me off I don't wish him dead.
I just wish to avoid that person. That includes approaching him for killing.
Also respecting other persons basic rights and my morale plays a big role.

And there's always a chance for a peaceful solution out of a conflict. You never know if one day you would become good friends. Which is an important reason in my opinion. I once experienced a similar case:
When I was much younger I found it funny to piss others off and beat them at school. There was one guy in my class which was my "special victim" and I tuckered him out almost every day. (I'm glad that realized one day that having friends is much more fun than having enemies.) I changed school and one day I met him again with some other former class mates and he seemingly had forgiven me and we had a nice evening and drank and laughed a lot together. This was an awesome experience, probably for both of us and he never would have had it if he had killed me.

But I wonder, aren't that very obvious reasons?

I think a slightly better question would be: So if you could murder someone and could get away with it and nobody would care about the person you would murder and you truly believe that this person should die for whatever reason, would you still murder? And if you say no because of your morals, then why are your morals the way they are and what would the consequences be if you ignore such morals?
And be careful what you're saying because the US government is watching you! LOLOLOL

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 14 2009, 2:58 am by MillenniumArmy.

First and foremost cuz it's illegal.

If it wasn't illegal, i still wouldn't do it because it would make murder more acceptable in the eyes of others, causing one other person to possibly do it, thus making it more acceptable in the eyes of still others, causing a downward spiral eventually ending in a world that is kind of scary. Did that make sense?

Feeling better morally? What? Who do you think I would kill? Just anyone?
No, I would kill the fuckers who make threats against me and my family.

What if someone raped your girlfriend / kid? Or even killed them? Would you think not seriously think about murdering them? I think you are all thinking about murder in general with the whole empathy / value human life / etc bullshit. Most human life has no value.

Guilt.

You don't murder someone because of karma of course. One minute you're taking someone's life, the next you're getting hit by a bus.

QFT man, QFT.

No, because of the following caveat. John Locke knows all, and I'm essentially echoing him here:

The philosophical reason why we in general do not murder or otherwise commit crimes against other people is not moral empathy or something similar, nor is it fear of the law. We established these laws because we desire to security of knowing that no one will do the same to us. If you are offered a chance to murder someone you hate 'with impunity,' then there is almost assuredly someone who does (or will) feel similarly about you and then murder you. A mutual desire not to harm each other ensures that we all feel safe, and when people violate the general compact then we lose our feeling of safety.

So, if I could murder someone with no fear of any kind of retribution and I knew someone could not do the same to me, perhaps I would. But the latter is simply impossible, and so thus we refrain for murder. The same applies to most crimes.

Obviously we don't murder for both moral reasons and because we don't want others murdering us. There's really no point to narrowing it down to a single reason since no one's that simple. And to anyone who says morals wouldn't come into play for them when taking a life, people say a lot when it's just talk.

i think dtbk wins. since it is not only short and simple but my belief falls somewhere into that xD! and i think that most of you can agree you dont want to be killed and that is a reason you dont kill...

And if a naturally selected aversion to harming each other/attraction to helping each other isn't the source of empathy, what is?
What does "offered a chance to murder someone" have to do with "someone [wants to] murder you"?

Basically, i don't think there is a universal answer to your question "What reason is there not to murder?.. besides prison"

for ME (i am an egoist, and a follower of Mill) i can only be pleasured by what i allow to pleasure me, i cannot give someone a million dollars out of charity and feel what they are feeling... its just out of the domain of validity for the particular situation. I'm losing, they are gaining. All i can do is benefit myself in whatever way makes me happy. if i am happy knowing that I'm giving money to crack babies, then i give money to crack babies. (Egoism folks). I do what pleases me, in some way. I do not kill people because it doesn't please me. if it did please me.. then mill would advise me to do so.

Empathy & religion are the two methods that instinct uses to avoid self-destruction of the human species.
In fact, prison is probably a result of those both combined.

I wouldn't say a desire to feel safe is empathy; the physical aversion ("moral empathy") you have when killing someone is just a biological response to the fact that killing members of your own species is not usually a good idea.

If you are "offered a chance to murder someone," this only makes sense if you assume that everyone else will have a similar chance. Therefore, if you want to murder someone, someone will want to murder you. If these "chances to murder" existed, you would be living in constant fear of murder.

That would be a "mutual desire not to be harmed by the other".
That's what I just implied my belief to be ( "naturally selected aversion to harming each other" ) . The disagreement here-correct me if I'm wrong-is that you don't believe this to be the primary anti-murderous motivation for a hypothetical generic person.
You're saying that what it is is that for a person to kill another breaks mutual peace, which isn't good for the person killing.
However, in my experience, people tend not to mind themselves being the exceptions to rules. In the absense of law, a combination of the mutual fear/desire for peace you're talking about, and empathetic tendencies would simply force such law to generate itself ( though likely in a rather more crude manner than normally established ) .

... I don't even know what I'm talking about now. I'm just rambling.