Faz, why d'you contend to argue?
In fact, you tend to ignore my comments. Mind you that I'm the creator, and I have the final say to the official versions.
If u feel that you just can't get over the problems, then make your own version =o. I don't usually protect my maps, but moose does, and I have to respect that he did a lot of work on the map, so the next ver will also be protected. But, if u reaaally want, with the consent from moose, i can give you the unprotected ver. But u must give us credits.
@ ur question. It is a very open ended question, which is why I feel that you're just blurting out random problems that may not even be a problem. IN other words, It depends.
Stop being like those Moon Hoax Conspiracy Pushers. Give opinions but don't argue unless u can prove your point
u did with sm of ur arguments, but mainly, no.
Mainly these things are self-evident from anyone playing the map and seeing what character styles are too powerful or easily dominate. I'll explain further for a few examples.
Dark Templar, for example, attacks with a cooldown of 30 frames (SC runs at 24 fps).
Typically I'm doing about 125 damage per attack when I start to hit the temple, having killed pylons already. This means that I'll do 100 damage per hit.
This means that to deal 100,000 damage, I'll need to hit the temple 1000 times. (30/24) = 1.25 attacks per second.
1.25 aps * 1000 attacks = 1250 seconds = 20.83 minutes.
That means I need to be left alone as an Assassin with more than 10 damage upgrades for more than 20 minutes to be able to kill the temple. That's more than 3 nights, and I'm vulnerable as hell during the day, so in reality it's going to be more like 45 minutes.
Now, as for why the marine is overpowered: Mines can be used to absorb photon cannon damage. They take 10 hits from a photon cannon, which has a cooldown of 22. This means that it takes a photon cannon 220 frames to kill one mine, times 3 (one per mine) divided by 2 number of cannons in range = 330 frames to eliminate one cast. The marine when stimmed has a cooldown of 7.5. In the 330 frames taken to kill the mines from one cast, the marine can fire 44 times. Assuming the marine has +5 upgrades (a very LOW estimate, seeing how most people play the marine) this means he's doing 30 damage. 44*30=1320 damage to buildings that he can deal per cast of his L1 spell. That's enough to kill a pylon if he takes a few cannon hits after the fact, or simply casts another round of mines.
Now, say another hero tries to stop him: unless you're a DM or have at least a L3 spell, you aren't going to be able to. The only solution is a tag team, say a warrior to deal damage and maybe a Volt to stun. That'd be nice except that the Marine runs far faster than a Volt and just as fast as a Warrior. In short: +3 upgrades and the amount of life that a marine has makes him crush everything. You've already said you have a fix for this, so I won't address it much further, but I feel that if you made his upper spells more useful he would be a more versatile character. As of now, mines and damage/hp spam are more than enough to let him destroy most other characters with EASE. His attack speed is just too much to handle, even a ling can't keep up because microing it is so easy, plus mines dealing 45*3 damage for a L1 cast that give you more time to shoot.
Spawns need to be upgraded. There's really no way around it, the game is idiotic when killing things in the enemy base is disadvantageous.
If you kill enemy warps, you lose your ability to level. You get no significant exp for the raze, if you get any at all, and yet your spawns continue to pour out. The enemy, sitting by his heal, is content to kill whatever comes within range. You (unless you're one of the two counters I mentioned earlier, only one of which is assured to work) can do nothing but sit and attack the temple. 20 minutes later, you might win, but in 20 minutes, your opponent is leveling, and you sure as hell aren't, because you killed the enemy warps. If your opponent can't level enough to kill you in that time span, he didn't have a chance to win anyway.
Say you leave the warp gates, knowing this, and just kill the photon cannons. Well, your opponent is again sitting by his heal. Your spawns are flying right into his base, there's no cannons in the way. This is great for your opponent, he doesn't even have to leave the heal to level.
Say you just kill the pylons, leaving the cannons. Your spawns (who probably take MORE than 20 minutes to kill a photon cannon, at least until Marines) are therefore nice and clustered for your opponent as they batter away uselessly at the cannons. He can walk over, cast a storm, maybe mutas, maybe Warrior L2, or Railgun, or something else, and pick up a ton of EXP in seconds, not having to stray from their base much at all.
HOWEVER, if your spawns are powerful, then when they come pouring into the enemy base, they start dealing significant damage to the temple and lead to a short win. Your opponent won't have nearly the time needed to catch up by killing spawns, because it will take more than one psi storm or mutalisk cast to wipe out 30 zerglings.
Archer HP + L1 Mutas can last you an entire game without difficulty against everything but a LM or a stun+ranged combo.
You gain HP so nothing can kill you with a quick spell, such as lurker bomb, or DT decapitate. Then you cast 6 muta spawns in a row whenever something comes near you. Your mutas can attack up to three times per cast, times four of them, and they usually do 75-100 damage each by the midgame with their upgrades. That's 900-1200 damage per cast of a L1 spell. It's not worth it to get the L2, L3, or L4 unless you need detection for something. Considering you only need to put upgrades into HP and mana, and perhaps minerals at first, you have far more life than most characters. I really like the 4th spell guardian solution given earlier in this topic. I'd suggest making the mutalisks last only for a single attack, perhaps two. Then you could get rid of the archer base camp (which I do like, but I think it really diversifies the archer too much, you already have mutalisk upgrades, archer upgrades, and mana for drones and buildings). To compete you really need to specialize, and the easiest way to do this is just to not get anything besides your level one, which is what virtually all "good" Archer players do currently.
I don't mean to be an ass with all of the above, but I'm not sure how you've never seen these strategies used if you've ever played your map a decent amount. There are counters, but you have to be the right unit and in the right place, and any player who's playing as these builds knows what to avoid. They are imbalanced. I'd be more than happy to detail my suggestions if you'd like, I enjoy doing so but I wanted to leave the option open to you, as the mapmaker, to solve the problems as you see fit. I'm very sure that they ARE problems, not simply my complaint after losing a game.
As for making my own version, I don't have the time or interest to go through a map as detailed as this and learn the death counters and coding style, and there definitely isn't a need for a third mapmaker of the same map. My question to Moose is very direct, I don't think it's open-ended at all. It merely addresses him responding to my complaints but not mentioning if he has something in mind to solve it, or simply thinks it's a viable build, or something else. It's like giving someone a detailed report and having them go "Yep, thanks." ...
If you feel that a certain complaint is not well detailed, feel free to mention it and I'll go over exactly why I feel something is overpowered or not the best solution. This is a place for negative critiquing, I'm not really here to pat you on the back and tell you what a great job you've done, that should be evident by me taking the amount of time that I have to both play and pick out what I find at fault in the map, and then report it here to you with explanations when needed.
Thanks.
- FaZ-
Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Feb 24 2023, 12:27 pm by Decency.
None.