Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Terrain > Topic: Terrain philosophy discussion
Terrain philosophy discussion
Nov 11 2009, 3:31 am
By: qPirateKing  

Nov 11 2009, 3:31 am qPirateKing Post #1



Discussion of terrain theory
Quote from AllStarEllis
I believe the terrainer has to make a choice, follow the concept and ignore the blocks?

After reading this post by AllStarEllis, I started to think long and hard about my terrain philosophy. I made a list of things that characterize my works and tried to sort them into a system of categorisation. I've listed what I came up with after a brief brainstorming section, and I'm curious about how all the terrainers out there would answer the following questions. Of course, these are just there to help you organise your thoughts, so don't feel obligated to answer them all. I'd also like to see other things that people have strong opinions about that are not included in my list.

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?


Feel free to come up with your own ideas for discussion and let me how you feel about terraining in general.



None.

Nov 11 2009, 3:36 am qPirateKing Post #2



Here's a template to help if you want to respond to each point. Just hit the [Quote] button and fill in the stuff.

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




None.

Nov 11 2009, 2:57 pm payne Post #3

:payne:

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




None.

Nov 11 2009, 5:30 pm samsizzle Post #4



I don't really have a pattern or routine for terrain i just do it. I absolutely hate blockiness and i can't stand it when people have things unorganized in terrain. For example i can't stand it when console terrain is slapped on because its just console terrain. For example in temple siege.

Also, this is gonna sound kind of dumb, but i make my terrain suiting to how i feel at the moment. Listening to a particular song can change the way I'm laying out my terrain at the time. And another thing. Making insanely cluttered terrain turns into a habit, I don't exactly think its a bad thing though. I think it gives the player the feeling that they're lost and there's no order.



None.

Nov 11 2009, 6:05 pm AllStarEllis Post #5



Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




None.

Nov 11 2009, 6:07 pm Howler Post #6



Quote from samsizzle
Also, this is gonna sound kind of dumb, but i make my terrain suiting to how i feel at the moment. Listening to a particular song can change the way I'm laying out my terrain at the time. And another thing. Making insanely cluttered terrain turns into a habit, I don't exactly think its a bad thing though. I think it gives the player the feeling that they're lost and there's no order.

I totally agree with this paragraph.


Also, I try to eliminate all blockiness with terrain, but if eliminating too much changes my original idea, I do not change it. I either try to cover it up with a sprite, which I try to do very little of, or I just leave it with a block or two and say hey..das cool...I'll fix it later lol


Also on Doodads, I use tree doodads for blind spots and atmosphere, as well as jungle sprite trees in most every tileset. But if I can make a custom rock or a custom whatever doodad using tiles I will do it instead of using up doodad space. It's very fun and it flexes your brain muscles :)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 11 2009, 6:34 pm by Howler.



None.

Nov 11 2009, 6:28 pm qPirateKing Post #7



I think this is a good start for the conversation.

Samsizzle brings up a good point about how our styles can vary based on the situation. I also change based on how I'm feeling at a particular moment. Recently, I've been listening to a specific song that captures the tone that I'm going for while I work. Generally speaking, there are times when I open up SCMD and just free style, and there are times when I approach terrain with a scientific and focused approach.

One of the reasons I'm interested in this subject is because whenever there is a terrain competition, I see very distinct styles from people, and it's fairly consistent. It may be completely irrelevant and purely theoretical, but I think it could be informative for everyone to have a deeper understand of the thoughts that go into the creation of each person's terrain. For new terrainers, I feel like it could be helpful to develop a philosophy of one's own so that one's work has character and consistency. But, maybe that's an organic process and I shouldn't try to crystallize it like this.



None.

Nov 11 2009, 9:36 pm AllStarEllis Post #8



Ooh, " organic process ", that would be the perfect way to describe how I feel about terraining. I don't like to structure things, I just place whatever I feel would look nice. Sometimes I don't even aim to create something, just mixing and matching tiles until I find something I like and then create a piece based on that.

" I see very distinct styles from people ", I can relate, I see many different styles in terrainers. I would say that terraining isn't just placing tiles effectively, its more of an art form.



None.

Nov 12 2009, 3:14 am payne Post #9

:payne:

Quote from samsizzle
I don't really have a pattern or routine for terrain i just do it. I absolutely hate blockiness and i can't stand it when people have things unorganized in terrain. For example i can't stand it when console terrain is slapped on because its just console terrain. For example in temple siege.
I saw blockiness in your RPG and you still haven't fixed it ;)

Anyways, as I might have said, I probably wouldn't be the kind of terrainer I am right now if I didn't know about WoodenFire and qPirateKing's styles... I think we can classify myself as a mix of these styles ^^



None.

Nov 12 2009, 4:21 am stickynote Post #10



Quote from qPirateKing
Here's a template to help if you want to respond to each point. Just hit the [Quote] button and fill in the stuff.

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




None.

Nov 12 2009, 8:01 am AllStarEllis Post #11



I'd say I was influenced by lots of different terrainers, mainly Vreal and Falkoner.



None.

Nov 15 2009, 7:59 am XGenesis Post #12



Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




None.

Nov 15 2009, 5:05 pm l)ark_ssj9kevin Post #13

Just here for the activity... well not really

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




guy lifting weight (animated smiley):

O-IC
OI-C

"Oh, I see it"


Nov 15 2009, 5:34 pm xYoshix Post #14



Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?




None.

Nov 16 2009, 12:41 am stickynote Post #15



Quote from xYoshix
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?
I usually make things "inside" the box. I usually am unsuccessful when making things "outside" the box.

Outside of the box is really freaking hard, but you feel good when you accomplished it.



None.

Nov 16 2009, 5:33 am CecilSunkure Post #16



Quote from qPirateKing
Here's a template to help if you want to respond to each point. Just hit the [Quote] button and fill in the stuff.

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?
Hopefully someone actually reads my answers :C

About people developing particular consistent styles in terraining, as mentioned in the OP, I believe Tempz has developed his own distinct and consistent style. He's a pretty good example, he sort of takes on quirky blends and makes them un-blocky, and that is something I can appreciate.

And one more thing, nobody but me seems to care about the art of creating minimap pictures. I have a variety of works of terrain that were made just to be a minimap picture, and none of them were made with a picture mapping program. I mainly do stylized letters for other people's maps, although, I have created a cake, birthday cake letters, multiple cute ants, a black hole with scattered stars, bubblized letters, reflective letters, a lightning bolt, jagged sharp words, swords, "tiled" backrounds of color, DNA, LOTS of border art, sometimes unit wireframes, etc. I really feel this area is rather neglected, and I've actually written a tutorial about creating minimap pictures. I should PM Payne that tutorial for the terrain wiki, actually..

So this would fall under the category of creating works with no functionality. I'm a bit of a fanatic when it comes to this. I know that most Bnetters won't really care about a lot of the little things I do, but a large majority appreciate my minimap pictures when they realize that I didn't use a picturemapping program to do such.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Nov 16 2009, 6:02 am by CecilSunkure.



None.

Nov 16 2009, 6:40 pm samsizzle Post #17



If someone can capture the same atmosphere in a mass landscape as a small detailed piece of terrain then it's definitely better than the smaller piece.



None.

Nov 23 2009, 8:15 am Rantent Post #18



Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?


Now for my final statement. I think the most important thing in terraining is to set up a variety of locations. I hate having a map that feels the same wherever I go. Everyplace in real life has it's own quirks, and likewise every city, meadow, mountain, and apartment should have something unique about it. If it's all the same, why bother with the adventure?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 23 2009, 8:31 am by Rantent.



None.

Dec 12 2009, 8:41 am DavidJCobb Post #19



Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.


Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?


Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?


EDIT: Oops, I mistook this for general mapping. That's what I get for posting at... OH CRAP IT'S ALMOST 4AM! Uh, I don't have time to correct that mistake now, I'm sorry, I'll be back later if I get time and remember! *flees*

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 12 2009, 8:47 am by DavidJCobb.



None.

Jan 15 2010, 2:34 am Gigins Post #20



Quote from qPirateKing
Here's a template to help if you want to respond to each point. Just hit the [Quote] button and fill in the stuff.

Tilesets
Which tilesets do you like best?


Do you have opinions about the different tilesets?


Blockiness
How much does blockiness bother you?


How much is too much?


If blockiness cannot be avoided to achieve your vision, what do you do?



Sprites
How much do you use sprites in your work?


How do you feel about others using sprites?


What do you think are acceptable ways of using sprites (e.g. covering blockiness, decoration, none)?


Do you distinguish between using sprites and using units for decorative purposes?


Doodads
How do you think they should be used?


Are you one who uses them a lot or very little?


Do you use custom doodads?


Functionality
Is it more important that a piece be functional or aesthetically pleasing? Think maps with "square" terrain.

Do you create works that have no function but to add flavour to your map?


Do you sacrifice functionality for looks?


Copying
How often do you use custom blends that other people created?


Do you take small pieces or whole chunks?


Do you find copying terrain to be an acceptable practice?

Misc.
Do you strive to create things that are outside the box, or do you try to get the most out of what is "inside" the box?


Do try to maintain isometry when you terrain?



Are your creations generally sprawling landscapes or focused and isolated?


Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 15 2010, 11:28 am by Gigins.



None.

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