So let me get this straight, what happens when you have 3 replays of the same person, doing poorly, cheating, and dying. Is it still bad games or lack of skill, where do you draw the line? Or is he still warming up? When do the excuses stop and the truth begin? The bottom line is he brought up that embarassing game, for god knows what reason to prove some bad point.

Another thing I want to throw in there is that, bad games again do not equate to bad builds. Bad games lead to mishaps on the playing field but not in what you should build in order to function properly within the match, everyone knows you should at least raise mana as ling to help your team avoid ganks at night and counter gank, Even moreso with volt. Volt + ling = Slamdunk. Even pubstars know this.

Everyone has bad games, lets face it. Though where do you stop saying "Yea X had a bad game" to "Wait a second this is his 3rd or 4th bad game". This is also from the guy who used to say recently medic loses to ling in cap race, which any decent ts'er knows is not true. His counter to beating DM in a cap race was to chase the orb. Is this just coincidence or is the lack of skill and knowledge about ts reflect in his gameplay and his perceptions about the ts metagame? The only solid conclusion you can come to is that he is a lower-skilled player. Again where do you draw the line?

It is an obvious troll post because his point doesnt make any sense and his skills do not back up the point he was trying to make, and why would you bring up such an embarassing game to prove a moot point, which anyone knows is not true. Only conclusions you can come to is:

1)He really believes ling is a good farmer, and thinks that awful game proves it. Which means hes inexperienced.
2)Its a troll post because obviously he knows better but hes being defiant or silly on purpose.


I would also like to mention in the 3 replays I have he picks ling EVERY single time.
Seriously. You decide.

I'm not bother going to argue with you any further, although I will say this: ling rushing level 2 at the start is pub play, so it's sorta sad you think that it's a good strategy.

Huh what? Rushing l2? You had volt, so basically a single stun would have killed someone, oh wait, you didnt have cracklings....

What do you not understand that you had volt? What don't you understand that leaving your mana at 60 is terrible? What dont you understand that dumping 6-7 civs into minerals is useless? What don't you understand that not having cracklings with L2 is near useless?

Everything you say is nearly wrong. What good is ling without a kill-move? Well you do have L1, Lets say you didnt rush l2....wait...you left your mana at 60 so you were only good for 2 l1''s and one l2. Seriously just stop, you keep digging yourself in a hole.

Seriously, I'm asking you, volt has L1 stun and you have L2 probably one of the most damaging spells in the game. Why would you delay L2 or mana? Why? How is that a pub build? Again you sound relaly ignorant when you say things like this.

Edit: Seriously, if anyone wants to see this replay just ask because its terrible, why wouldnt you rush L2 when you have volt?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2010, 3:56 am by DoLLe.

Uh, because the volt was crap. If he managed to pull off a l1 or l2 with me around, which he didn't, then my autoattack + his would have been plenty to kill without l2.

/facepalm
/facepalm
/facepalm

Were we playing the same game, He was able to kill me once, and kill the mech once. He couldn't of have been that bad, plus he landed 3 L3's, what are you talking about?

In comparison you killed nobody, again I keep bringing this up, you were useless. Plus you died twice before the volt, so what are you saying?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2010, 7:17 am by DoLLe.

Oh. My. God.

We are not arguing with you. We are helping YOU how to play. Why don't you understand this.

Edit: Rushing L2?

You have either two choices:

a) Upgrade some Hp for survival

b) Get your next spell

instead you

c) Waste 4 civs into minerals for better autoattack!

How is upgrading your spell level "PUB PLAY RUSHING L2"?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2010, 8:50 am by Fashioned.

Because l2 does crap damage till you have decent upgrades. Better to get the upgrades early and feed better + autoattack better than to have bad feeding and bad l2 attack. I was messing around in that game but my usual l2 build is first 3 civs into attack, THEN grab l2 + mana. If dying is a problem, I get hp before mana.

I have won many games and caused the deaths of many pubbies with a DM/Mutant combo. Mael -> Mutant l2 = Dead. It doesn't matter whether you rush it or not, you will die early-mid game if that happens. It's very simple.

Unless the mutant is stupid enough to l2 you from 4 o'clock direction. Rare, but you do get idiots who have been playing ts since the 3.4 days AND still do that. Then blame it on "mutant is my worst character". If without reinforcements I usually keep my rine at least 2-3 screens away from the darned orb until I have l3. But it is still so very hard to dodge mael, unlike stuns which have symptoms----mael out-ranges ghost's attack range so it is very, very hard to do the "l3 dodge and kill incoming unit" trick!

Seriously, I've been seeing more and more idiots in pub games lately. Including the following:

1. An assassin with 21 armor and 6 weapon, with 100mana and l2 and think he can take on a volt with l4.
2. Same assassin, trying to fight a firebat, a volt and a rine when the science vessel is right above his head. He had enough mana to l1 and volt did not drain him.
3. An assault who loads self into dropship THEN charge into a archer and his happy fellowship at 12 ups.
4. A 21hp rine trying to charge in and kill another player's science vessel which clearly has over 100 energy.

All in one game today.

@close.ads
All I can say to those is LOL!

Not if there's a single unit within aggression range of those lings. Maeled units have the lowest AI priority. That's why I actually prefer trigger stuns over mael.

I have to agree 100% with Olimar here. The difference is that its DM but same concept, It's simple and effective slamdunk why wouldn't you get l2 if you have a reliable stunner? But ummm what does DM have to do with anything?


Ling + l2 + 5Ups + Stun + Cracklings = DEad hero 3-4minutes in. How is that crap damage, its a 1shot in and out affair? It's also funny how you don't EVER mention cracklings once.

Time to clear the air, becase this going around in circles.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm asking this board a real serious question: Doesn't anybody else see the elephant in the room here?

It's clearly obvious that you Do not have any idea what you are talking about. You don't hold off on mana and L2 for ling for any reason especially when you have a stunner on your team. Each on one of your explainations is horrible or just doesnt make any sense or is simply counter productive. So far your explainations concerning this game range from "I was warming up" to "Rushing L2 is a pubstar build and its sad that you think its a good strategy". Funny thing about the latter statement, the stunner whom you called bad, managed to obtain two player kills on his own, with with zero player kills for yourself. Ironic isn't it? You cannot blame your teamates for being bad, especially if he landed two player kills on his own with no help. Now your newest explaination is "Oh I was just messing around", Really Jack?

Where do lies and excuses stop and where does the truth begin Jack? Are you still having a bad game the THIRD or FOURTH time someone is discussing a replay about you performing poorly? Truth be told, I think the only logical conclusion is if someone is having a "bad game" on a regular basis everytime someone plays said person (You), and they always choose the same hero all the time, and performs poorly with said hero all the time, what can you draw from this evidence? Simple, it stops being "bad games" and becomes they are "consistently bad".

I'm not even flaming or attacking you, I want to stress this point. Before this sen discussion, I beat you and it was done, I was going to sweep it under the rug. Strangely enough, YOU brought up that embarassing game to prove a point that mutant can farm decently, yet it has already been disproven and the worst part is you died and fed too which counters your argument. How can you bring up such a poor example of play to reinforce your point when your performance shows the exact opposite, I do not understand your logic. Then you started making excuses, hell, everyone makes excuses Jack. However you can only play the excuse card so many times until people who play you start to raise an eyebrow as to why everytime you play mutant you perform poorly.

You just keep digging a bigger hole for yourself when you attempt to discuss how to play mutant and I say mutant specifically because that is the only hero you choose and you can play. The real glaring irony of this catasphrophic mess is that mutant is the ONLY hero you pick, yet you are still lacking in even the most basic knowledge about how to play with him and perform below pub standard everytime I've seen you utilizing said hero.

In closing this conversation about this your sloppy mutant play I want to say this: You attempted to make an attack about my skills and knowledge by flat out saying one of the basic accepted build for the mutant is a pubstar strategy, essentially you said "Rushing L2 when I have a stunner is pubstar". The strange thing about this statement and yourself is that you display all pubstar behaviors:

-Making constant excuses for sloppy play.
-Always having a "Bad Game".
-Cheating by way of medic boosting.
-Always rushing ling, who coincidently has the lowest skill ceiling of all heroes.
-Lying about games.
-Only plays one hero.
-Having terrible builds, yet calling standard accepted builds, pubstar.
-Not properly knowing your counters, I had to teach you this.
-Calling people out on skills without having beating them or losing to them.
-Coming into my game, talking smack, then losing.

If I wanted to argue with newer players I would go make a TS game, not come here to SEN on an intelligent TS forum and teach newer players such as yourself how to do basic ling builds. If you want to take it PM's fine, however I'm NOT discussing this non-sense here any longer.

Discussion is over. Don't bring this up again, you need to check yourself.

CAFG: REally didnt know that about AI and mael priority, learn something new everyday.

Post has been edited 9 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2010, 6:35 pm by DoLLe.

Mech's fixed, but I can't reproduce the firebat glitches(but I know it exists), so I'm kinda stuck on it. I did find a way to still get an invincible ds still, and that's fixed :\

Wow just watched that replay of Jack's ling and started cracking up when his ling got trapped by the mech at top cannons

This game was an epic /facepalm

Let me see that replay.

Whisper me at Dolle I play at USeast. Seriously, he shouldn't be giving advice or suggestions if he is playing like that, I'm sorry. I think it is totally relevant.

Let's do some maths shall we?
Ling does, say, 4 hits in one l2. 13 lings in one l2, with about 11 attacking in a perfectly placed l2. 10 base damage + 4 ups (reasonable if you're rushing cracklings) = 22 attack each ling. 11 x 22 x 4 = 968 damage. Add in 6 armour on the person you're attacking, ad you get 16 x 11 x 4 = 704 damage. One stun + a perfectly placed l2 gives you that. Now, if you go 9 ups before l2, you have the full length of the stun to attack with, and you have at least 39 damage per hit. After armour, that's 33 damage a hit. Mutant is devouring one, so he's getting something like 24 hits in a 12 second stun, which is reasonable (double mael, or 3 volt l1's). That's 792 damage. With 9 upgrades, mutant 2hits broods, which means better farming. When he DOES get l2, he has 9 ups, and possibly cracklings from farming and sims. The damage he is doing THEN per l2 is 31 (still assuming 6 armour) x 8 (cracklings speed) x 11 = 2728 damage. Get one more upgrade after cracklings and that's a dead cannon. You can just about kill a fully healed medic with that. With 2 l2's, which is reasonable a couple minutes later, you can kill anything except a FH warrior with l4 or l1.

Rushing l2 is simply bad maths.

Okay, that post didn't have any solid logic. You just stated that a mutant will do more damage with l2 later in the game than he will earlier. The advantage of rushing l2 is that you can deal that damage when you need it, sooner. If an enemy gets a stun on them early game (as in, before your upgrades-->l2 build gets l2), you won't be able to do as much damage. Either way, you will be able to farm just fine, since even if you have to heal, you're fast enough to not miss out on much. It would be easier to fight heroes with the upgrades first, since l2 most likely won't hit, but mutant shouldn't be fighting heroes 1v1 too much that early, anyways. The big difference is that rushing l2 gives you the possibility to land an early kill, which is what makes mutant so deadly. If mutant gets an early kill or two, his xp lead will just grow and grow, eventually having an extremely strong l2 or upgraded l3 that can kill anything. Your math is right, but there was no point in calculating that. Obviously, either way, he will do more damage later, but who is to say he won't get any upgrades AFTER rushing l2? Early upgrades do not help out very much, unless you are really trying to win a cap, which you most likely won't without the help of allies, which would likely bring a stun, for which you need l2. Either way, rushing l2 gives you the benefits of capitalizing on a stun earlier, and that pays more than being able to farm a little bit easier.

I love you. Have my kids?

One last thing, you should mention: seriously, who has 6armor at the start of the game without gimping themselves? Nobody rushes armor at the start, the most you will see is two armor. Exceptions to this rule is usually warrior.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2010, 8:55 pm by DoLLe.

Did you read the maths? Mutant without l2 but with upgrades does more damage early game than with l2. How is that not sound logic?

It isn't THAT early game. It's early enough for first civ plus at least 2 more, splash feeders would have more. Probably after base cap at this stage, maybe mid still loose.