No, it makes sense, but did you watch the replay?

Due to the 'full invincibility' it gives, it allows you for three high damaging shots, or movement taking up the time it would take for three shots.

This seems fine, until you see our match. It was possible for him to not be stunned in any way, so we actually had to physically block him (lategame rine...well warrior l2 coulda worked, but he wouldve escaped due to dt movement proly...) or hope he ran out of mana.

He did run out of mana a couple times, but he was power rine and as such he just fed near his base and eventually took all of us out due to our inability to get anywhere near him (well i kinda forfeit, but he was having no trouble killing the reavers that were coming..so it was useless. I couldnt hit him anyway.

I understand counters, they should have an easier way to see/dodge/predict things that the 'countered' enemy is diong, or something of that sort, and as such be able to live longer.

However, no one spell should allow you to escape from a competent (i landed a DM l4 on him, an about 18 upg by that time i believe mech used l4 on him, and a warrior was attacking him and also had stun.) triple team, without interference from some ally or a mishap (one person has low hp or something stupid, didnt happen) Making it stationary should fix the issue, and i believe make it more realistic (im gonna pull out my sniper rifle so i can run away...) The above n ot being able to escape from a competent triple team voids assasin, you have to take him by surprise to kill him, which makes sense.


The above thing (same thing w/ assasin) does DM l2 REALLY prevent any character from manualling it in m8? That feels so broken...But if its untrue, forgive me.

I watched your replay and have played against the rine myself.

If there is anything I find unbalanced about it, It has to be the fact that when you cast the spell it doesn't leave a location for the rine to spawn back at once the spell finishes. This alows the invincible bastard to make an escape real easy without taking dmg. The phantom in 1.5 respawns where his spell leaves off which makes it much easier to kill him even though he can perma dodge.

A few thoughts on your game-
-You guys didn't assim which later bit you in the butt.
-You really didn't work arround the timing on the spell. Most of you attack casts came before or during his first shot as the sniper.
-You made reavers late game when he already had the exp edge only making expierence even easier for him.


A few thoughts on the rine-
-no delay after the spell finishes makes this a spamable spell that makes it that much easier to pk opponents.
-the fact that the rine when in real danger can spam this spell and use ti to walk away makes this even more annoying because he ends up where the ghost was last not where the rine was last.
-Have you always been able to send scourges out through the becaons to spam mines from capped control points? If so I find this quite disturbing.


To Moose:
Overall: I think rine is fairly balanced just needs a bit of tinkering. A small delay, at most 1 sec, after the spell finishes would be sufficient. Another location to spawn the rine at his original location when the spell finishes would make it much harder for the rine to escape.


Btw the bat final spell is just excelent gj on it. I have had lots of fun with it *smiles wickedly*

That's a good compromise.

Mech all forms, Archer Lv1, Archer Lv4, and Firebat.

Regarding "realistic":
I'm going to pull out my Carpet Bomber so I can run away.
I'm going to have a Chaos Mutation so I can run away.
I'm going to Supercharge so I can run away.
I'm going to Charge of Courage so I can run away.
I'm going to Crippling Strike so I can run away. (well, okay, you'd probably teleport instead.)

A fitting compromise indeed for a spell that is so similar to Light Mage's L1.

Anyway, I've attached a replay that's pretty silly. Orange sucked and should've won many times over, but it's still fun to watch.

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Assault is too hard to micro with every spell requiring you to select a different unit. Individually it's easy, but combos are hard to pull off.
My suggestion is to make L2 auto-targetted to the nearest hero, but only when first casted. It is not a homing missile. It just moves to the location of the nearest hero once.

There is of difficulty (inefficency to be precise) in telling it to move specifically to the nearest hero and not a slightly further away hero, player-owned summon, etc.

^I loved this post

going to have a chaos mutation ahahhaha.

charge of courage also too good.

The refrence to LMs l1 is odd though.

LMs l1 has no range, he also moves slow, and it has much less attack. (unless your getting like 15 protoss ground upgs, at which point, get l3)

The only comparison i can make is that htey both make you invincible, do high amounts of damage, and allow you to move with very little chance of dieng, with the exception of invincibility, i can apply this to supercharge and chaos mutation.

You hate making spells use the defilers.

Precedent?

Also, that is a good method. I didn't think of it.

Other then the nearest hero pretty much ALWAYS being the rine, I dont like this at all.

It would seem to me that would make it 1. An amazing scouter at night as it would detect burrowed heroes, zoom in on them, and give you sight of them. which seems more then a bit imba.

It would also follow heroes into enemy cannons, theres 50 mana.

I dont see this helping sp ops at all...EDIT: Except in the imba way of amazing autoscouting.

earlier today, my partner was lm, and he hallucinated the enemy on the really narrow bridges near the bottom gate, trapping him, while i shot the crap outta him.
im not sure if lm should be able to do this, since then no one could chase the lm through narrow bridges
dunno if this is cheap or could be easily avoided, but just something i noticed worked well with the new terrain

1.Assault is firebat in this version. HE needs it.
2. It doesn't last long enough to scout that much. Also, the range could be limited.
3. It could not work on burrowed units, but for assassin, even if you stun him you can't really hit him besides mana slow.

Dont have much time...But most of the time its used for timing, meaning get behind and chase, or time correctly. I dont see it being used as an all out thing much...

But yeah...i wouldnt see it being u sed nicely

Ugh. I think I forgot one extremely important detail:
You can still control the scourge, it's just that at spawn it moves toward the nearest hero.

Given that there is no trigger delay, yet there is latency delay on PLAYER clicks, this could cause some horribly unwanted things.

As a doublecast option...i could see it, but other then that, not worth it unless you play on LL.

Such as...? I think you're reading into this whole latency thing way too much, did you just learn about it or something?

Given scourges high movespeed, i could see it messing up many attempts to stun.

Also...XS on autoscouting.

Just played the BEST GAME OF TS EVER

CAFG, Minimoose, and Kuplia(or something) vs Me, Oblivionscall, FHwally,

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DM early game is pretty imba, ive always thought and always will.

However, nobdoy seems to care XD.

Other then that, thisi s about what happens to 20-25% of pub games.

One team has better morale, and slightly better teamwork (DM helped alot)

they take early lead, and push to finish.

Suggested nerf for DM: Lower shields on DA, its a l1, why does it have 1/4 of the heroes shields?

You would probably lower the exp given by it, but make it still a high number, this thing stuns at a range and is seperate from the hero.

So... you think that having a scourge instantly accelerate is a bad thing? Even if the scourge goes in the exact opposite direction you want it to go, it will still go to a player, and it will still be faster if you catch it in the normal amount of time.

There's no excess on autoscouting either.

There is no "heroes shields" in TS, nor is there a hero DA. Shields take full damage from everyone, and you aren't likely to upgrade shields. DA is imba in the beginning, which is the way it is. She's underused as it is. She's also heavily countered by mech. Likewise, in the old versions of TS, rine was imba in beginning as well due to minecapping. You can say the same thing about mutant and medic too.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 12 2009, 9:05 am by rockz.