Quit using the "I can learn from it" crap.
If you don't know how to ask for help than go fuck yourself. There is no way in hell could you make a decent map if you couldn't wait a few hours for someone to help you. I make example maps you know, they're the same learning that you would get if you unprotected a map.
All right?
Now that thats established OS Map has 2 GOOD arguements:
Pros:
It allows abandoned maps to be updated and repaired, in the event the map is broken by a patch.
It is useful to repair unintentional corruption.(this alone outweighs all the cons I can come up with, especially because the damage from the cons is already done)
Thanks to antisleep for good arguements.
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Politics, Science, Religion » OS Map
Just seems out of place.
Personally, my stance is I don't really care about OSMap. I don't map for anything when I do make maps, my 'mapper's reputation' isn't important. People can steal my maps, it doesn't matter to me.
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Bleh. This argument has been covered so many times I've got a .txt with the conclusive argument.
Quote from Tuxedo Templar
Ok here, I've compiled a few lists:
Protection is bad. Here's why:- It prevents people from learning from other's maps.
- Maps can't be improved or upgraded by others who enjoy playing them.
- Protection seems to do little else but secure bragging rights for the author.
- Maps where never meant to be protected anyway. Blizzard never released a protector, did they?
- Protectors, like all third party software (including modding tools and map editors), are illegal and against the EULA.
- Maps affected by Starcraft patch changes can't easily be updated/fixed.
- Maps benefit more from being open to others for learning/improvement than they gain from being permanently protected from rigging or stealing.
- There could be more varieties of a given map available to choose from, based on preference.
And of course:
Protection is good. Here's why:- It prevents people from stealing maps.
- Maps can't be rigged or imbalanced.
- Protected maps need less downloads than frequently modified unprotected maps (each requiring new downloads). You know what to expect each time you play.
- Authors should always have more rights to their maps than random bnet strangers.
- Protection allows the author to control who gets access to the map and who doesn't, at their discretion.
- Protection is optional. Authors may wish to keep their maps open source, but they don't have to if they feel endangered.
What about LegacyWeapon's unprotector though?
Unprotection is good. Here's why:- It's already out. There's no going back... unless someone makes another protector.
- Previously blocked maps are now free to see inside and learn from.
- Maps can now be improved, updated, or fixed, if their authors have neglected/are unable to do so themselves.
- With protection out of the way, mappers can be closer by being able to share editing a given map.
- Who cares about whose name is on the map anyway? Editing maps is supposed to be for fun. Protection just gets in the way of that.
- Someone was probably gonna make/release one anyway.
Unprotection is bad. Here's why:- Maps can now be stolen by malicious parties.
- Maps can now be rigged or imbalanced.
- My rights to my maps are taken away by others who disagree with my having them. That's not fair.
- Unprotection strips a map of all its labels and trigger commenting, making learning from or trying to modify it too obfusticating anyway.
- Now I'm forced to have to convince others of being the author, if my works get stolen.
- If I don't have a good reputation, I may not be able to convince others. I risk losing my maps if so.
- If I'm at risk, I'll end up spending more time defending myself, and less time making maps.
- An unprotector, also a third party program, would be just as "illegal" as a protector is, anyway.
That should about cover it all the main perspectives on the matter. Did I forget any?
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The mapping community should stop being such finicky babies and learn from the modding community.
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Bleh. This argument has been covered so many times I've got a .txt with the conclusive argument.
Quote from Tuxedo Templar
Ok here, I've compiled a few lists:
Protection is bad. Here's why:- It prevents people from learning from other's maps.
- Maps can't be improved or upgraded by others who enjoy playing them.
- Protection seems to do little else but secure bragging rights for the author.
- Maps where never meant to be protected anyway. Blizzard never released a protector, did they?
- Protectors, like all third party software (including modding tools and map editors), are illegal and against the EULA.
- Maps affected by Starcraft patch changes can't easily be updated/fixed.
- Maps benefit more from being open to others for learning/improvement than they gain from being permanently protected from rigging or stealing.
- There could be more varieties of a given map available to choose from, based on preference.
And of course:
Protection is good. Here's why:- It prevents people from stealing maps.
- Maps can't be rigged or imbalanced.
- Protected maps need less downloads than frequently modified unprotected maps (each requiring new downloads). You know what to expect each time you play.
- Authors should always have more rights to their maps than random bnet strangers.
- Protection allows the author to control who gets access to the map and who doesn't, at their discretion.
- Protection is optional. Authors may wish to keep their maps open source, but they don't have to if they feel endangered.
What about LegacyWeapon's unprotector though?
Unprotection is good. Here's why:- It's already out. There's no going back... unless someone makes another protector.
- Previously blocked maps are now free to see inside and learn from.
- Maps can now be improved, updated, or fixed, if their authors have neglected/are unable to do so themselves.
- With protection out of the way, mappers can be closer by being able to share editing a given map.
- Who cares about whose name is on the map anyway? Editing maps is supposed to be for fun. Protection just gets in the way of that.
- Someone was probably gonna make/release one anyway.
Unprotection is bad. Here's why:- Maps can now be stolen by malicious parties.
- Maps can now be rigged or imbalanced.
- My rights to my maps are taken away by others who disagree with my having them. That's not fair.
- Unprotection strips a map of all its labels and trigger commenting, making learning from or trying to modify it too obfusticating anyway.
- Now I'm forced to have to convince others of being the author, if my works get stolen.
- If I don't have a good reputation, I may not be able to convince others. I risk losing my maps if so.
- If I'm at risk, I'll end up spending more time defending myself, and less time making maps.
- An unprotector, also a third party program, would be just as "illegal" as a protector is, anyway.
That should about cover it all the main perspectives on the matter. Did I forget any?
Maybe if you came to a conclusion in that.
The mapping community should stop being such finicky babies and learn from the modding community.
Yeah, but remember, bigger communities attract more morons.
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Quit using the "I can learn from it" crap.
If you don't know how to ask for help than go fuck yourself.
What about the people who don't know WHERE to ask for help? When I was a little nooblet, I learned from other maps because I didn't know forums like SEN existed.
What about the people who don't know WHERE to ask for help? When I was a little nooblet, I learned from other maps because I didn't know forums like SEN existed.
Very good point.
Yeah, but remember, bigger communities attract more morons.
This is incredibly important to remember.
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I remember when I used to be against it, but it is really a stupid thing to debate about. We don't really own the maps we make. It's actually like we borrow it because we make it and then we play it. What is even the point of making maps if other people aren't going to enjoy it? Starcraft is almost dead anyways, there aren't even any good maps that should be unprotected anymore. There has always been unprotectors too so I don't know why the topic of unprotection of OSMap even started. If you don't want to play rigged maps, leave and host your own. If you can't host, fix your firewall of get someone else to host it. If you don't want people editting or stealing your map, don't release it.
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What about the people who don't know WHERE to ask for help? When I was a little nooblet, I learned from other maps because I didn't know forums like SEN existed.
touche.
But you know staredit has a help guide that is actually quite useful.
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Soooo, this is supposed to be.... politics? I'm not going to say anything about OSMap unless this thread starts getting pumped with things that need to be rebuttled. Most everything has been said already, and I know I've stated my opinion on this whole matter more than once.
I guess Falkoner doesn't realise that CRACKING is illegal, and punishable by law.
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The mapping community should stop being such finicky babies and learn from the modding community.
And the modding community should quit being script kiddies, and move onto bigger and better things like Programming.
There has always been unprotectors too so I don't know why the topic of unprotection of OSMap even started.
Um... Hexidecimal Editor anyone?
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I guess Falkoner doesn't realise that CRACKING is illegal, and punishable by law.
Cracking a map open? which law would cover that?
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I guess Falkoner doesn't realise that CRACKING is illegal, and punishable by law.
Cracking a map open? which law would cover that?
Did you see anywhere where I said: Map
No... I said CRACKING.
ANY type of cracking is against the law.
Hell, protection is against the EULA of Starcraft. Which is breaching contract. Which in turn if Blizzard wanted to, could sue you for all you're worth.
Next time check the context
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Cracking is not a criminal act unless there is a law that covers it. The EULA of starcraft does not apply to maps made by third party editors, and even if it did, it would be pretty tough for them to collect damages for the modification of a freely distributed map.
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Cracking is not a criminal act unless there is a law that covers it. The EULA of starcraft does not apply to maps made by third party editors, and even if it did, it would be pretty tough for them to collect damages for the modification of a freely distributed map.
Uh, and the last time I knew, there were laws against Cracking.
Third party editors = Third party programs = Against the EULA
Sorry, but I'm pretty sure there are others who will agree with me.
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I have actually read the EULA, which is more than you can say. The only third party programs that are covered, are those that connect to, or modify game play on battle.net(this does not include LAN games). Also, while blizzard does say they claim copyright to any work of yours you upload, and if you upload anyone else's, you are breaking the EULA, the fact that it was uploaded does not mean they have any legal claim, especially if someone else uploaded the map.
Opening a map without the permission of the author is only illegal if there is a contract that specifically excludes it. Removing credit is another matter. However, as I already said, fat chance collecting damages.
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