There are also laws against plagiarism.

huh? All of this would be covered by tort law, which would mean the suing party would have to prove damages.

wow... just wow.
Do you even try to make sense? Being a smartass only works if your smart. I really think the AES should have started as the Anti-Kelimus Society.

Um, can you read my mind? How do you know I haven't read the EULA?

Again, logical fallacy after logical fallacy.

But that's okay. Everyone here at SeN has ill-logic, and fallacies all the time. I'm just joining the bandwagon



And lets see...

StarForge = Modified gameplay on Battle.net, due to corruption and alteration of the necesary files associated with maps.
SCM Draft = The same thing as above
SCXE = The same as above, just the first generation of these third-party programs

Those are the three editors that I know of (due to lack of the emotion to care for Starcraft anymore because of whiney noobs) and they are third party programs.

They also change gameplay on Battle.net



If you were to use StarEdit, would you be able to do half the things those three programs do?


No (Only if you do some Hexidecimal Editing, which is also breaking the EULA)


Thus, they are breaking the EULA, due to changing online gameplay through hacking maps and corrupting them.

Hell, even Hexidecimal Editing is/has changed gameplay. That's what REAL Map Makers used to use before editors.


They claim?

No, they DO. Every map ever created by anyone that has been played on Battle.net is property of Blizzard Entertainment, a division of Vivendi Games (If you really want to get super techinical with who and what Blizzard is/was, I'll go for it) because you have to upload your maps through Battle.net, into other people's computers.

And how can you say this: "the fact that it was uploaded does not mean they have any legal claim"

After saying: "Also, while blizzard does say they claim copyright to any work of yours you upload, and if you upload anyone else's, you are breaking the EULA"

??? Blizzard doesn't CLAIM copyright, ITS THEIRS.


If you use THEIR software to make maps, then upload it through THEIR servers, its essentially THEIR property (it even states it in the EULA)

How can you claim that maps are not Blizzards property, when you use StarEdit (Well, you're SUPPOSED to use StarEdit)?

"Well, I don't use StarEdit, I use *insert random editor here*"

That even breaks the EULA even more, because you are using THIRD-PARTY PROGRAMS to alter the "Battle.net experience" by hacking and corrupting maps.

I'm not too sure, but doesn't SF, SCM Draft, SCXE, ect... alter the .chk file?

And doesn't altering the .chk file result in a possibility of corruption of maps?

Don't make me go and link all of Sal's argument's against OSMap (Because it ties into the same exact bs you're trying to spout out) to help prove my point of the Third-Party programs breaching the EULA..


And the last I knew, there was a LAW against CRACKING.

Doesn't matter when, how, or anything else like that, CRACKING is essentially HACKING and HACKING = ILLEGAL in the United States, and throughout the world, and is punishable BY LAW. Meaning, you can go to prison for a very long time. If I remember correctly, there was a 13 year old in England that got in DEEP shit for hacking.

Regardless of what, it was still HACKING. Which = Illegal.

So therefore, using OSMap (Which is a third-party program) to CRACK OPEN PROTECTED MAPS (Which you have to use another third-party program, or some Hexidecimal Editing), is breaching the EULA, and breaking the law.

Breaching it by using third-party programs to change the "Battle.net experience", breaking the law by Hacking (or CRACKING) software.

The third-party programs being: OSMap, SCMToolkit or ProEdit (or whatever "new" protection method is out nowdays) HexEdit (If you protect/alter your map the old-school way), and whatever editor you used (StarForge, SCM Draft, SCXE, ect..)



Now seriously. How are you not in breaking the EULA when using a third-party editor?

Was it created by Blizzard Entertainment?

No.

Was it created to be used to change Map Making?

Yes.


Does this in fact change the "Battle.net experience"

Yes.


Which results in the breaching of the EULA.

I made perfect sense. Its not my fault your intelligence is lacking, and you can't understand what I'm talking about.

Reading it even more closely again, I notice this: At best Blizzard holds copyright on maps that we make. Not ownership.

I also don't notice anything about third party editors.

It is self apparent you have not read the EULA.
AFAIK, neither starforge nor scmdraft modify any blizzard softwareno, the language in the EULA is very clear, and this means modifying the game binary, or intercepting and modifying the packets between the game client and bnet.how could hexediting your own map possible be construed to break the EULA?battle.net, and any content they made is theirs, a map I make, does not become intellectual property of blizzard unless(and until) I upload it myself, onto battle.net blizzard has no claims to material distributed over LANs, or between individuals.now you are just lying.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 15 2007, 9:58 pm by AntiSleep.

I'm fucking tired about seeing this debate coming again and again. Please, just stfu and make maps.

Derivative works = Third-party programs, for most are derived from StarEdit.


Where it says: Computer code

Meaning, every third-party program, because you have to have computer code to make them.


I'll get back to this another day when my life has time

post split due to quote bug It creates a .chk, it is simply a filename that starcraft looks for within a map when it opens it, it can be created by anything there are very specific laws, and I cannot think of any that cover this. The laws I recall deal specifically with network authorizationYou would look a lot smarter by just shutting up. Especially considering how strictly this stuff is enforced.

As far as I can tell SCMDraft is not, nor is osmap, or map protectors. In fact, only the rather few programs that modify the existing staredit are.DEAD WRONG, it means code that runs battle.net. As in their servers, and that part of the network layer of their games.

Besides, do you really think it is legal for blizz to claim rights to your operating system? you can't run starcraft without it.

Well if you ignore the fact that blizzard supports the mapping and modding community as well as the third party editors, than maybe you'd have a good argument.

Sorry, but I've now ignored anything you have to say on this topic due to that fallacy.

Maybe if you could "argue" against me without trying to act more superiour, i'd listen to you. But sorry, not going to happen. Good day

I am not trying to act superior, I am simply pointing out that failing to back up anything you say is not a good way to convince me.

You have said that the use of OSMAP is illegal. Which law does it break? (yes, I am asking for a reference.) Is this law (if it exists) enforced?

Just so I know you understand, the EULA is not a law, and does not cover any software blizzard does not already own the rights to, it only a contract that covers the use of the battle.net network, and as such the only penalty I can see for violating said contract would be a ban from battle.net(the exception is if you break the terms of service to make money off b.net, or blizzard's I.P. in which case they may sue for damages).

Also, saying you would look smarter by shutting up was not a fallacy, just an observation. My arguments stand independent of that statement, which was a nod to a quote from Abraham Lincoln,"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt." It would only be a fallacy if I was using it to support some claim, an example of this would be "Foo is an idiot, therefore everything Foo says is wrong."

If your position is untenable, abandon it.
Repetition is not rebuttal.

There you go fabricating words again AntiSleep.


I never said OSMap was illegal, I said CRACKING is illegal.


OSMap cracks maps; thus, Blizzard could sue (if they really wanted to) anyone using OSMap.

If Blizzard supports Protection that is.

Which from what all these whiney "OSMap haters" say, Blizzard does support Protection.

Therefore, they could sue.

EULA = End User Licence Agreement = An agreement/contract = Blizzard could sue if they really wished, for breach of agreement/contract




And how is that not a fallacy? You're doing the Ad Hominem Abusive. Attacking me instead of the topic.

That is a logical fallacy.

I was not trying to attack you, if I were you would know it.