Staredit Network > Forums > Staredit Network > Topic: Protection vs Unprotection Discussion
Protection vs Unprotection Discussion
Sep 19 2007, 5:46 pm
By: mikelat
Pages: < 1 « 8 9 10 11 1220 >
 

Sep 23 2007, 3:29 pm Xx.Doom.xX Post #181



Shocko, just leave this debate. Please.

Quote
Essentially.. only good maps that do not need to be edited should be protected.
Indeed. But there are no good maps like that. No map is perfect, syrsly.

Quote
That's basically what I've always been saying for a while now. No one makes maps, finishes them, or makes ones which get spread on battle.net and are worthy of being stolen. Therefore no one needs to worry about protection or their map being stolen. Only maps with a high probability of being stolen warrant the use of protection only as a small deterrent to noob map stealers, ie noobs who just know how to open an editor and change the name. Of course, nothing can stop the intelligent and determined map stealer.
/agree.

Quote
I don't think you realize that there isn't some huge divide between newbs and people on SEN. There are plenty of intelligent people who only use battle.net and plenty of dumb people who use SEN. Maps like Normandy and Quests and Raccoon City were unprotected and soon dozens of versions popped up.
There isn't. I also have no idea why some people think there is. They just would rather play the damn game [SC] instead of bitching about it on a website. I think they're the smart people, actually.

Quote
I personally don't care if somebody riggs my map and releases like 100 versions, whenever I play it, i'll play my own un-rigged version and others will follow the lead.
Well you're special then.

Quote
Quote
I wouldn't care if anyone made modified versions of my maps as long as they leave my nick in the credits. The problem comes when some newbs rig it, replace my nick with theirs and then people start playing it over bnet just because it's easier or just rigged. That would truely annoy me.
Why does credit matter so much?
Like people keep saying it over and over again, but as long as you know you made it, that's all you need to know.
You want fame, not credit, which ultimately is stupid.

Hmm, lets think. Perhaps the creator put a good amount of time in the map? All of that hard work is wasted. People don't want fame, except for a few special people. Where the hell are you getting this?

Anyways, most maps played on b.net are strip maps, a few defenses, bounds (yay!), and a few others I'm too lazy to name. The rest are private games.

Note: What's wrong with quotes...

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 23 2007, 4:06 pm by Xx.Doom.xX.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:31 pm Xx.Doom.xX Post #182



Quote from Shocko
I will not leave this "debate" ;O! OSMAP YOUR MAPS MORE PL0X!
Oh sorry, I forgot. It's actually an argument really.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:37 pm Sael Post #183



Christ, can't you ever learn to not spam? I also think the points have been made, and it's up to the brass to decide for us.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:37 pm Dapperdan Post #184



Quote from Esponeo
I don't think you realize that there isn't some huge divide between newbs and people on SEN. There are plenty of intelligent people who only use battle.net and plenty of dumb people who use SEN

Owns Falkoner's arguement. Letting just the "mappers" see it is kind of ridiculous. If we wanted to do that we could host an unprotected version on the site. :-_-:

Quote from Esponeo
However, it does harm the people PLAYING the map if people begin making dozens of slightly altered versions that annoy the player base so that they no longer wish to play at all.
Quote from JaFF
Looking at the maps played in Battle.net, I doubt that matters.

If you release a really kickass map and it gets stolen/rigged, the intelligent players that truely rated your hard work will find the original version and play it. The noobs can play what ever they want - they won't be really annoyed by the fact that it's rigged/stolen.

Score 1 for JaFF. I have about 1000 versions of Tarpit Defense and people STILL play it, even though it's so freaking ancient now, at that. That's just one example. This was one of the few points made by esponeo that I disagreed with.

Quote from JaFF
Falkoner, that argument about OSmap being there only to let the mappers in is total BS - protection removes all the comments, thus making it a real pain in the ass to understand what's going on.

Owned, again.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707 (@Shocko)
I'm pretty sure you're the only one who enjoys spending a bunch of time searching for a good version.

He is. :><:

Quote from Shocko (@Clokr)
Why does credit matter so much?
Like people keep saying it over and over again, but as long as you know you made it, that's all you need to know

Yep, that's what I said, and it is the only way anyone can or should look at the situation. As much as it sucks if someone steals credit for your map, keep spreading your correct version and live with it.

As you can see, I have opinions on both sides of the matter, what it comes down to is this.... again... Not hosting OSMap on the site is essentially pointless, but if that decision is made it is fine. Otherwise, just keep everything on both sides of unprotection/protection equal. And ultimately, enforce that people stay true to the author's wishes.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:38 pm InsolubleFluff Post #185



I think the majority of my posts on this website have "not been spam" so if you'd kindly not judge me by one post, that'd be muchly appreciated.

Also, how many of the maps on Battle.net were rigged via OSMAP?
Stolen credit via OSMAP?
I think hardly any, so HA!

Shit homez, you aint got nault on osmap!



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:42 pm Moose Post #186

We live in a society.

Quote
Also, how many of the maps on Battle.net were rigged via OSMAP?
Stolen credit via OSMAP?
I think hardly any, so HA!
Not true. Though I can't prove what program was used, my very own Armored Core map was found with another's name on it. The argument isn't so much against OSMAP.exe as it is against all unprotection.




Sep 23 2007, 3:43 pm Dapperdan Post #187



Quote
Note: What's wrong with quotes...

You used them wrong. Make sure you have a ["endquote"] at the end of your quotes, you're missing a few. The other problem is, make sure that [quote] and ["endquote"] are right next to the beginning and end of what you are quoting, not a line below with an enter between them, or with several spaces either (I think that might be a problem too). Basically, once you miss one part of the code, the code for the whole rest of the post is broken, which is what you did.

And Shocko, stop it please. You're making a mockery of yourself and this topic.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 23 2007, 6:22 pm by Dapperdan.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:44 pm InsolubleFluff Post #188



I understand that but still, OSMAP is probably the leading unprotector right now? so, I would have to say the general discussion though it should be unprotection as a whole, is primarily just OSMAP.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 3:44 pm MrrLL Post #189



I found this fun "Überena" map, changed the health of one unit, and claimed the version to be by me. I also renamed it Merrellena and renamed all the units to Merrell. People will love this map.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 4:07 pm Xx.Doom.xX Post #190



Thank you Dapperdan.

I say we just ignore Shocko, because now it's just acting like a total idiot. Or just let Moose handle it. This isn't working.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 4:25 pm Esponeo Post #191



I'm pretty sure Dapperdan didn't even understand my argument or the analogy. What the shit? Did anyone? You all agreed with it. You cannot possibly NOT agree with it, unless you hate the principles stated in the United States constitution and would love to live in a society where big brother controls your entire lives.

Quote
Essentially.. only good maps that do not need to be edited should be protected. But who is to decide what is good or not? That becomes a problem. You are basically forced to either to allow the map maker to choose or allow no one to choose. I think that allowing everyone to choose is a far more morally appropriate stance, regardless of the problems it may cause. It is just like freedom of speech, not everyone is going to use their freedom correctly, but that doesn't mean you take it away.

I just realized that analogy is totally fucking awesome.

You do realize that by accepting this argument you accept that protection is the lesser of two evils? Right? I mean, it is right in there, plain and simple. And yet virtually all of you who accepted it are still arguing about how map cracking is the greatest thing ever or that it should at least be tolerated.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 4:34 pm Dapperdan Post #192



Quote
I'm pretty sure Dapperdan didn't even understand my argument or the analogy. What the shit? Did anyone? You all agreed with it. You cannot possibly NOT agree with it, unless you hate the principles stated in the United States constitution and would love to live in a society where big brother controls your entire lives. You do realize that by accepting this argument you accept that protection is the lesser of two evils? Right? I mean, it is right in there, plain and simple. And yet virtually all of you who accepted it are still arguing about how map cracking is the greatest thing ever or that it should at least be tolerated.

Actually, there is little way anyone can tell if you are saying that "the freedom not everyone is going to use correctly, but shouldn't be taken away" (paraphrased), is refering to choosing to mapcrack, choosing to use protection, or refering to the overall freedom of choice on everything. It stands as a good analogy for the latter in my opinion. The only reason you knew so clearly what it was saying was because you wrote it, as far as I can see.

Everything else I have to say has pretty much already been said. That is unless a better/new arguemenent suddenly comes up that I would have to rebuttle to or have it change my mind.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 4:56 pm Esponeo Post #193



Quote
I think that allowing everyone to choose is a far more morally appropriate stance, regardless of the problems it may cause.
DAMNIT I said "everyone" here where I should have said map maker. It is still pretty clear that I am talking about people choosing whether or not to protect their own products. I'm assuming that you recognize that the choice to protect something does not include the choice to do the opposite. As if the choice to save a life also allows you the choice to murder someone...

What kind of world do you live in where the choice to do or not do one thing entitles you the choice to do or not do the polar opposite of that thing?



None.

Sep 23 2007, 5:30 pm DT_Battlekruser Post #194



Quote
Yep, that's what I said, and it is the only way anyone can or should look at the situation. As much as it sucks if someone steals credit for your map, keep spreading your correct version and live with it.

Believe it or not, some people don't feel that way, and you shouldn't make programs that force them to either change their opinions or go into a corner and cry. They're humans too.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 6:07 pm Dapperdan Post #195



Quote
I'm assuming that you recognize that the choice to protect something does not include the choice to do the opposite. As if the choice to save a life also allows you the choice to murder someone...

What kind of world do you live in where the choice to do or not do one thing entitles you the choice to do or not do the polar opposite of that thing?

Your analogy fails. The choice to do or not do one thing does entitile you the choice to do the polar opposite if both things aren't considered inherently immoral. Unprotection is certainly something people have the freedom to do just as much as protection. Whereas murder and saving a life is a completely different situation. Nice try though. I wish I could have put that more eloquently.

Quote
Believe it or not, some people don't feel that way, and you shouldn't make programs that force them to either change their opinions or go into a corner and cry. They're humans too.

This is so far out of left field I don't know what to say to it.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 6:08 pm ClansAreForGays Post #196



there actually is one example where forced osmapping has caused ruin - hero wars. The original credit is stolen from 2.3 in 2.5, drasticly rigged, and even includes cheats.
Quote
If you release a really kickass map and it gets stolen/rigged, the intelligent players that truely rated your hard work will find the original version and play it.
if only that was true here. 90% of the community hosts and prefers the hijacked 2.5 thinking the bigger numbers = better version. This is, however, the only case where I've seen map stealing truly succesful.

despite all that, osmap has helped me enormously and I would be half the mapper without it.




Sep 23 2007, 6:11 pm Demented Shaman Post #197



Quote from ClansAreForGays
Quote
If you release a really kickass map and it gets stolen/rigged, the intelligent players that truely rated your hard work will find the original version and play it.
if only that was true here. 90% of the community hosts and prefers the hijacked 2.5 thinking the bigger numbers = better version. This is, however, the only case where I've seen map stealing truly succesful.
10% seems like the correct amount of intelligent players around here and on battle.net.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 6:12 pm ClansAreForGays Post #198



Quote from Dapperdan
Quote
Note: What's wrong with quotes...

You have no clue how to use them, that's all.
lol hyprocrit, learn to put =shocko then you can scold him.




Sep 23 2007, 6:21 pm Demented Shaman Post #199



Quote from ClansAreForGays
Quote from Dapperdan
Quote
Note: What's wrong with quotes...

You have no clue how to use them, that's all.
lol hyprocrit, learn to put =shocko then you can scold him.
Quotes without the name aren't broken quotes with no endtag. He can scold him about that. He never said anything about putting a name in.



None.

Sep 23 2007, 6:22 pm Esponeo Post #200



The strangely misinterpreted quote:
Quote
Essentially.. only good maps that do not need to be edited should be protected. But who is to decide what is good or not? That becomes a problem. You are basically forced to either to allow the map maker to choose or allow no one to choose. I think that allowing everyone to choose is a far more morally appropriate stance, regardless of the problems it may cause. It is just like freedom of speech, not everyone is going to use their freedom correctly, but that doesn't mean you take it away.

I just realized that analogy is totally fucking awesome.

Okay, I am going about this the wrong way. You seem to have made the mistake that map cracking gives anyone a choice. Protection is a choice, and unprotection's only purpose is to cancel out that choice. If no one protects anything, unprotection has no purpose. It is entirely dependent on someone choosing to do a certain thing and then canceling out that decision. The very idea that allowing both is the same thing as allowing freedom for anyone at all is absurd.

If I was actually suggesting what you think I did, that would make me a total fucking moron.



None.

Options
Pages: < 1 « 8 9 10 11 1220 >
  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[06:23 am]
Ultraviolet -- got some light recalls behind too
[12:07 am]
O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- 🦗
[09:53 pm]
Wing Zero -- I wonder how he knew I was in the market for a good cricket bat
[2024-6-11. : 2:27 pm]
lil-Inferno -- ya
[2024-6-11. : 10:49 am]
Oh_Man -- or scarab maybeh
[2024-6-11. : 10:49 am]
Oh_Man -- shielt battery + photon cannon blast?
[2024-6-11. : 10:49 am]
Oh_Man -- check out the animation at 7:56
[2024-6-11. : 9:06 am]
Oh_Man -- https://youtu.be/3mpjxspSUtQ I defeated the hell boss yall, bow to my power
[2024-6-10. : 5:04 pm]
lil-Inferno -- poop
[2024-6-06. : 5:20 pm]
Ultraviolet -- I was kinda thinking something along these lines
Please log in to shout.


Members Online: jun3hong, Moose, lil-Inferno, Oh_Man