I have map ready for beeing tested hsl

You got this algorithm from desert strike night 2.63 i think. Im not using this algoritm at any of the spawns. all units spawn when hit rounded numbers or in case its 0,16 or 0,33 or 0,66 they spawn when they hit 98/99 cause i texted 0.16 instead of 1/6 and 0,33 instead of 1/3 and 0,66 instead of 2/3. All hero buildings spawn random units cause im limited to a lesser amount of building types. for the randomization i tryid to make all different options evenly good, for excample with evo chambers i made all 3 options spawn a hp amount on 800 = 1 torra have 800hp or 5 hunter killers with 160hp (5x160=800) or 4devolings with 120hp + 2 hunterkiller ( 4x120 + 2x160 = 800hp) hence i texted 1-6 random zerg ground heroes on evochamber. this i did with all hero buildings so all the different options is close to same quality.

With those buildings texted 1-2 units which spawns 2 at first building and 1 at second is demanding knowledge of the map by playing it several times to know this system. ive now incorporated explaining text guide for all races spawns. which will make it easier to understand the spawn number systems for players.

Hi so when I crossed build my 8th gas on my teammate, my income just stopped forever.

Yeah something that i could fix Ill be doin that fix on My New update.. Mostly players would know and learn from trying it finding out it dosent work and not use but Ill put trigger so You can only gas in your own base that might be best

desert strike classic2020 V4.4 coming up today.

Changelog compared v4.2
Balance, stats and prices are keept the same
7 bugs fixed, tested and working.
1. Refund on 2 or more buildings at same time now works
2. Refund buildings at 0 is now impossible, so you cant loose money on that.
3. Refund terran mains on terran buidlings with add ons for excample factory. killing factory while it having machine shop now works.
4. adding on terran add-ons at timer 0 could corrupt spawn system. a trigger is put to restart the spawn system if that happens so thats fixed.
5. Greater spires was given wrong player in 2s or 3s battles when you instant spawned at 0. thats fixed now.
6. An unxepected infestation could fire if one of the tank spawn system buildings was killed. could only happen if terran had made special and magellan would confuse enemy units to fly out in the water and kill the building, really rare bug. But is now fixed.
7. Gassing in other players bases could corrupt income. thats now fixed by connecting gas spots to bases and players. so you can still build gas in other players base but it will add him and not your self.

New features:
1. A guideline center is added(infested command center) with 17 pages of guiding text for the map. creating infested terrans on the infested command center toggles the pages. lifting the infested command center makes it explode.

2. Two types of strategy options is added. Ive added unmoveable units that you can kill to activate the effect. These units are zerg egg and zerg lurker egg. when you kill em they do two different things.

The zerg egg texted (kill booster) adds 25% mineral boost for either 20 or 25 or 30 seconds for all the players on the team, only works for the players not in delay. at 0 gas (in fast mineral speed) 20 sec boost equals 40 minerals per player, at 7 gas (fast mineral speed) 30 sec boost equals to 540 minerals for all players having 7 gas and not in delay. so the lowest boost is 40 and the highest is 540 per player. making use of this to gain midpoint bonus for the team is the strategy view point of this. Im sure players will find the best use of this wether it will be start of game or end of game. In 1v1 each team gets 6 booster eggs, in 2v2 teams get 7 each and in 3v3 teams get 8 booster eggs to use.

The zerg lurker egg texted (kill corruptor) adds 5 or 10 seconds delay for all player on the enemy team. giving 5 sec delay on 0 gas (at fast mineral speed) equals to 80 minerals per player, giving 10 sec delay at 7 gas (fast income speed) equals to 740 minerals per player. so killing such an egg has effect ranging from 80 minerals per player to 740 minerals per player. this strategy option can give a decent effect on beeing played right. in 1v1 teams get 6 of these eggs in 2v2 teams get 7 of these eggs and in 3v3 teams gets 8 of these.

Wether its booster or corruptor eggs the effect is added per each use so its possible to kill 2 or even more at once to gain higher effect. the effect is added by time, so killing two corruptor eggs have chance of adding 10 to 20 sec to enemy team, killing two booster eggs having chance of adding 25% income boost for 40 to 60 seconds.

here is desert strike classic2020 v4.4 scx

enjoy

Hey, I apologize for taking a long time for the writeup.
There are some feedback as I've played a few games.

Nothing to comment on balance - I especially love the description for the Spire building of using 'x<5 3M5S' notation and so on.

I have attached a couple of screenshots of some confusing aspect for the new 4.4.
The first is the inconsistent font size in the Mission Objective.
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but you can tell in the first screen shot that '6gas = move it to temple...' has noticeably small font than the others.
If you have the option to control the font size, then I certainly wouldn't mind a smaller font so that it's easier/quicker to read in this busy game.

The next is the description for each eggs.
The biggest problem is the name of the egg is too long that it spills over so the player cannot read right away.

I know you mentioned in the earlier post that utilizing the egg will give 20~30 seconds of income boost or 5~10 seconds of delay depending on the number of gas, but the way it reads is like it can cause a delay anywhere between those seconds instead of having a strict dependency on the number of gas.
More importantly, it is not clear on some of the followings:
- Player can never realize that there's 7~9 bonus opportunities. It will be confusing if the player pops an egg but another one spawns right away as if it didn't do anything.
- I had a 2v2 game where I popped the income boost egg but none respawned - is that because the other teammate popped 6? In other words, you say there are 7 eggs in 2v2, but is that 7 total or 7 individually? - I'll try to find a replay if you need more evidence.
- I am guessing popping the egg while you're waiting for the cooldown is a wasted move? Is it possible to prevent this just like you have means to prevent accidental boom?
- Does popping multiple eggs at once give you the same total amount of boost/penalty as compared to popping one egg at a time?
- Is it possible to show an indicator that shows that you're in middle of bonus period, and same for when you're delaying the opponents' income?

Attachments:

Here is a replay of a couple of bugs, played with none other than SC-Master.

- First one is SC-Master (in blue)'s delay timer crash Norad II is in full health in multiple occasions. I've noticed this quite frequently myself in several games.
- The specific point is at the 23:50 when I pop my first egg after getting the 7th income. I was surprised the egg went away after only killing it once - is that because SC-Master popped it several times? I did not count exactly how many times he popped it.

Attachments:

Hey and thanks for all the feedback you give, I tryid testing different setting for the guide pages had too add pages cause the font was too big for that much text to be in the mission briefing thats why theres 17 pages. if theres a way to change the font size in mission brief im not aware of the way i hope other editors can help out with this too if they know a way to change font size in mission brief text trigger. i saw your screenshot and agree that same font size of all text would be best option i did this way to reduce the need of two pages instead of one, as i thought it would still be readable, if i had added more text font size of the last line had been even smaller. idk i tested different settups this was the best way i could do without having to many pages.


i saw your screenshot of eggs seeing i reached the limit of text for a unit hence it ends with... instead of ending with) the text it shows is kill corruptor (5 or 10sec delay foe... it should have texted kill corruptor(5 or 10sec delay foes) so missing those two carrectors isnt that big an issue to understand what it does i think. evenly when played more several times using the eggs theres a text box poping up when the effect starts helping out the understanding of what it does

-to answer the player never can realize that theres 6eggs if 1 player on team or 7eggs if 2 players on team or 8eggs if 3 players on team. The players will find out that theres more than 1 egg for the team, when they use em. knowing how many eggs is left is not that important i think. when a player has an egg he can use it or not i tryid one game where i forgot to use last eggs before time was up, so after the time is up on fast income effect will be none on the eggs. the point of the eggs is they are beeing used trough out the game in a strategic and cooperative way to increase the competativeness of the map. knowing the amount of eggs is learned by playing several games. knowing the excakt amount is not that important for players. is definately better knowing when to use the eggs(knowing that theres more than 1 egg is important for players yes, aswell as knowing that the boost both egg types gives is very small).

-to answer the question you pop an egg and none respawned that would be cause your team player killed 6 eggs yes. thats because eggs are given to teams in total amount of 5 + 1 at each players bases which makes the total amount of eggs beeing 6 or 7 or 8 depeinding on the team number. each player will always have 1 of each eggs and team will have 5 of each eggs shared among the team players using the eggs first. hence it increase the cooperative level of the map and the competetion level aswell.

-to answer the pooping of an booster income egg when having delay (income cooldwn) is a waste than yes it is wasting of boost. I wouldnt be able to make an good anti pop trigger cause if made an anti system you would kill the egg but the effect would just fire when you delay is out. also it wouldnt be able to counter a boost egg with an delay if there was an anti trigger for pooping an egg while in delay. and last but not least eggs boost are given to all players on the team when you pop an egg in your base your ally players also gets a boost to their income meaning that you need to poop your booster eggs while as best as possible all players on your team is not in delay(having cooldwn income). this is really good for cooperative competetion games. another thing to explain is that the boosted egg dosent count the midpoint bonus the booster egg only gives 25% mineral boost for all players in your team for 20 or 25 or 30 seconds if the player is not in delay(no cool dwn on income). so an anti pop trigger wouldnt be good to make.

-To answer if poping more eggs at the time = it adds up the time for both eggs. for ecample poping two eggs giving 20sec 25%income boost, than the outcome is 40 seconds of income boost for each player on team not having delay. for excample pooping two delay eggs giving 10 sec delay for foes both, than the outcome is enemy team players will suffer from total of 20 seconds delay(cooldwn on income).

-to answer your last question if i could add an indicater for boosting and delaying enemies. the answer is yes i could do that and i really like to have indicaters. but i have 1 problem doin it and my problem is that ive used all locations awaliable in the map editor. Meaning all 256 locations is in use for something. lots of location is used on creating abilities indicaters 18x6 locations is used only for that than gas income takes alot of locations too 5x6. so thats a huge problem for adding anything to map by now. hard to add something without the use of locations. eggs use the same location as powerups and are preplaced in a location i can use. thats why i didnt need locations for eggs. even tho it could be better if the eggs would be placed elsewhere than the powerups cause sometimes the powerups are hidden now under the eggs something that a player would need to learn to know not a good thing but i cant avoid this with my location limit as it is now. if blizzard allows more locations in the future this could be fixed. and other stuff could be fixed and added. But yes i do like indicaters only thing i can think of is to remove the indicators for abilities or preplace em for a neutral player than give em to player when you build abilities idk that could be an lesser good option but possible. so the flags owned by players show the lvl the flags owned by neutral shows not the level if you get what i mean.


Yeah the crashed bc (delay timer) dosent reacht to very small delays like 5seconds. so this can oocour when enemy team kills an corruptor egg vs you. the effect of the crashed bc beeing full health is nothing. knowing that a full health crashed norad bc is same as not beeing in delay. i have an way to fix this issue but i dont think is so important. all you should know is your only in delay (income cooldwn) when the crashed norad2 bc is burning. but its possible for me to fix that issue.

other thing is scmaster had pooped the other shared eggs else you would have gotten new egg. Scmaster or your team players can poop all eggs accept only the one in your base they cannot unless your bhought crossbuild(they have workers in your base).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 1 2020, 9:07 pm by GGmano.

@HSL... I thought of an idea that makes me able to add indicator of when a player gets boosted income, without using new locations. So thats possible in a future update... Im also capable of fixing the crashed bc indicator.. so thats two things i need fix on an future update please let me know other stuff. If the eggs power is to low in your openion or to high, should be more eggs or less, should be individualized or team shared is ok.. and so on lemme know what you think.. id say the eggs seems pretty good as they are now maybe the amount could be 7 or 8 or 9 insteaad of 6,7,8

Ive also been asked to add game mode on or off on eggs cause some would like to play without the eggs.. me my self think eggs should always be on but if players want it as a mode i think thats the right way to go

And i tested sunkens and turrets more dircetly, turrets needs a tiny bit increase in price and sunkens need a decrease in infested terrans spawn from i think 1,75 to 1,25 infested terrans

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 5 2020, 3:53 am by GGmano.

Ive been asked to reinvent or increase the strategy point of nukes/gas system. Been told everybody always nukes at will cause thats best option no matter what. so heres my ideas of an increase point of strategy on gas income system.

right now gas are given at 14 framerates at fast gas speed and at 28 framerates at normal gas speed. (12 framerates is aprox 1 second)
lvl 0 = 12 gas, lvl 1 = 15 gas, lvl 2 = 18 gas, lvl 3 = 22 gas, lvl 4 = 28 gas, lvl 5 = 35 gas

nukes cost 1500 minerals 1000 gas. and gas income starts at 20 minuts left of income in fast income mode

My idea is giving gas at 8 framerates at fast gas speed and 16 framerates at normal gas speed
lvl 0 = 4 gas, lvl 1 = 6 gas, lvl 2 = 8 gas, lvl 3 = 10 gas, lvl 4 = 12 gas, lvl 5 = 15 gas

nukes would cost 1500 minerals and 1500 gas. and gas income should start at 26 minuts left of income time in fast income mode

This changes would effect the overall speed of gas income to be around 20% slower which would make every special players do more cruxial, turning the gas income on 6 minuts earlier will make the nukes affecting the minerals income higher= if you had 40 of this buildings at 20 minuts left and nuke would cost around 3 of those buildings the difference between having 37 and 40 buildings is less than if theres 26 minuts left of income you would have 30 buildings and nuke cost 3 buildings is like 27-30 vs 37-40 higher effect on 27-30 than 37-40. it will also change the diffence on 0 nukes compared to full nukes. the difference between 4 and 15 is nearly quartro compared too 12 and 35 which is triple. which definately makes nukes still good to do, hence the higher gas price on nukes. the jumps on the lvls on each nuke would be less but higher in% so within time higher but without time lesser.

Which i think would increase the overall strategy output on the gas system. What you guys think lemme know your thoughts?

Hey GGmano

Are you going to integrate SCA for score keeping?

Does sca make use of euds? i think it does yes? as far as i read you need eudmap tool for it to work but not fully sure, if it doesnt make use of euds im very much intrested in adding SCA

with euds map can only be hosted with original unit limits, i know you can bypass unit limits with euds but bypassing sprite limits is not yet possible with euds. In my map players are giving computer players a very large amount of units compared to other ds maps, so these limits is very important for having a good game on my map. If not having these double limits bcs and goons etc would stop shoot real fast making a real big downside to balance of map. Once its possible to bypass sprite limit with euds im very much up for adding other eud stuff too.. like special colour on some specific units would be cool, and workers flying could be cool to add too, and build without creep or pylons, and ofcourse SCA too.

Hi I'm the one who suggested the change in gas. Right now, I notice that it's very common to get a nuke whenever you have 1000 gas, even if you need to destroy some buildings. Your army would still be able to manage somewhat, as you already built a decent army by the time gas is online, so destroying 2-3 buildings for a turn wouldn't affect too much. Getting nukes is really important and it would decide the outcome of the game, provided that you don't get rekted because you can't hold on to the enemy. But it's too easy to get nuke.

This makes most of the game very rigid and people would just follow 1 strategy. If you played slow income mode, you would see that buying nukes here is not an easy thing, you would have to forgo a lot on the battle field.

My suggestion is to let gas starts at the start of the game, people would really have to think when to gas (for early-mid game), when to nuke (for mid-late game), instead of getting 5-7 gas first then 5 nukes like now.

I see your point of view.. thats what im thinking on a way to increase this, but i think enabling the specs at start of game would make specs mean alot more for midgame but maybe thats a good point. ill be thinking bout that, but enabling gas income from start i think silo should affect gas income delay aswell than and gas income should be slower overall. mostly i think it would still always be best to follow up on gas income kinda same as it is now but not 100% sure about that. but yeah it would definately make higher effect on when to start nuke you need a good enough push to do it. Kinda so its impossible to nuke if getting pushed letting defence hold for your army as that is possible right now. the outcome of this would add more power to leading team. a way to avoid this power to the first nuker would be decrease the jumps on nukes to something like 6,7,8,10,12,15 so it takes more time for a nuke to pay off. bullet came up with an idea to increase the price on spec per usage, so first spec would cost 6k second 7k third 8k fourth 9k and so on up. well he said 6k 10k 20k but i think that would be to high increases.

Looking forward to it.


My rule of thumb is do I have enough space left to build the buildings, which is usually a problem for Terran. The current number of eggs is just enough to have enough space to build the Starports and Science Facilities. Any more eggs would actually cause me to build the buildings that I don't necessarily want to build just to save space.


I do not want to comment on balance as you would have significantly much more experience about it. The only thing I would comment is if you can design the detector units to spread out instead of typically flocking into 1 location - it is particularly problematic between TvP where the Terran goes all-Wriaths and spawning 9~12 Observers don't seem to help compared to building 3 because they all move to one location.

As for gas income revamp, I see that the change will be from 12 gas to 35 gas to 4 gas to 15 gas.
I like the idea that by having almost ~4 times the difference instead of the current ~3 times, it rewards the player to try to get the nuke early.
I will need to play a lot more to understand, but my preference would be someone who goes gassing as fast as possible eventually accumulates the same 6000 gas at the same time as those who didn't gas the whole time.

Ok the way i see an future update is to have an indicator for booster eggs (theres already indicator for your delay when corruptor eggs are fired), and fixed the crashed bc delay timer. REnewing the gas system to 4,6,8,10,12,15 at a framerate 12 and 24 for a nuke price 1500 minerals 1500 gas starting in beginning of game. with an increase of specs price per usage of 1kgas so first spec cost 6k gas second cost 7k third 8k fourth 9k fifth 10k sixth 11k seventh 12k eight 15k and ninth 20k which would be max price on specs else too much triggers to make. and changing the turret price to cost 40 minerals more and changing the sunken to spawn 1,20 infested t instead of 1,75 at same price with a max on 16sunkens. that i will be working for

I dont think im gonna add eggs as a game mode tho since they should be part of game same way as powerups are, im pretty sure players will eventually learn to use em in some way best as possible, the effects from eggs are very small anyway. it took some time when i introduced the powerups but players learned to use em eventually. and i think the eggs offer great corporation for team games aswell as strategy input

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 6 2020, 3:55 am by GGmano.

I can try see what i can do but i think this would be hard to do. Now i have an idea on how to do it tho gonna need test when im done with it tho

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 6 2020, 7:26 am by GGmano.

Been working hard last couple days on update major work hehe lots of testing. I only need last 40-50 advanced triggers gonna take me like 5 hours to do....

so im having this update ready for the weekend, i made some really nice improvements not that it was bad before..

Im planning not to update this version more for at least a long time, so if theres anything you want adjusted, improved, corrected let me know now so i can consider the implementation in the update.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 11 2020, 7:13 am by GGmano.