Well, I recently played a game in which I was linged to death by a very skilled player. My ally and I both called hack, but when I checked the replay, everything seemed legit. My build order goes: SCVs... Supply Depot as soon as 100 minerals are accumulated (while still continuously building miners) Barracks at 150 (still building workers) Refinery (usually still building workers) etc. It always seemed to me that this was the best general build, but in the aforementioned game I had one marine (I always continuously supply marines) by the time he got four lings to my base. My question, then, is what should I do to counter this? The map was Lost Civilization, I believe.

Well, I recently played a game in which I was linged to death by a very skilled player. My ally and I both called hack, but when I checked the replay, everything seemed legit.
My build order goes:
SCVs...
Supply Depot as soon as 100 minerals are accumulated (while still continuously building miners)
Barracks at 150 (still building workers)
Refinery (usually still building workers)
etc.


It always seemed to me that this was the best general build, but in the aforementioned game I had one marine (I always continuously supply marines) by the time he got four lings to my base.
My question, then, is what should I do to counter this? The map was Lost Civilization, I believe.

[color=#1af]I don't melee much but I think there are two strategies here. 1) If you suspect a ling rush build a bunker, so long as you have a marine in it you can continuously repair it with SCVs. If he starts to attack your SCVs use them to attack the lings. 2) The 10 or so workers you have at this point should be able to stop a 6 ling rush, although it hinders your economy.[/color]

Against zerg, I never have 1 rax then a refinery. I go 2 rax, and pump out marines and add some more barracks. This is my BO: 8th SCV build supply 9th mine 10th scout Build 1st rax with SCV that finished supply 11th - 12th 2nd rax SCVs 2nd supply usually at 14 or 15 Academy More rax You have to pump out marines as soon as the 1st rax is done, while still building workers. If you have some decent micro, you can beat an early ling rush, and then zerg is most likely screwed, so you can storm in with a few marines. Another strategy that I only use for 1v1, and that's really fun and effective, though risky, is the proxy build. It goes like this: SCVs 8th SCV supply 9th mine 10th bring both this SCV and the SCV that finished the supply to nearby the enemy base (or the middle of the map). Build 2 rax while still creating SCVs at home. 2nd supply at around 13 or 14 When 1 of the rax are done go scout. Pump out marines, then rush when you feel right. If he attacks your base with his early ling rush, use your SCVs to attack, and counter with your marines. Build some more barracks if the first rush doesn't work. Hopefully you win. When proxying, very importantly you have to make sure your opponent doesn't see your 2 SCVs, otherwise he'll know, and you're screwed. And put your barracks in a place the zerg will most likely not notice (quite obvious). I'm considered a newb on Bnet, so if any of these strategies/bos suck, let me know. Hopefully this helped you out.

Against zerg, I never have 1 rax then a refinery. I go 2 rax, and pump out marines and add some more barracks. This is my BO:

8th SCV build supply
9th mine
10th scout
Build 1st rax with SCV that finished supply
11th - 12th 2nd rax
SCVs
2nd supply usually at 14 or 15
Academy
More rax

You have to pump out marines as soon as the 1st rax is done, while still building workers. If you have some decent micro, you can beat an early ling rush, and then zerg is most likely screwed, so you can storm in with a few marines.

Another strategy that I only use for 1v1, and that's really fun and effective, though risky, is the proxy build. It goes like this:

SCVs
8th SCV supply
9th mine
10th bring both this SCV and the SCV that finished the supply to nearby the enemy base (or the middle of the map). Build 2 rax while still creating SCVs at home.
2nd supply at around 13 or 14

When 1 of the rax are done go scout. Pump out marines, then rush when you feel right. If he attacks your base with his early ling rush, use your SCVs to attack, and counter with your marines. Build some more barracks if the first rush doesn't work. Hopefully you win.

When proxying, very importantly you have to make sure your opponent doesn't see your 2 SCVs, otherwise he'll know, and you're screwed. And put your barracks in a place the zerg will most likely not notice (quite obvious).

I'm considered a newb on Bnet, so if any of these strategies/bos suck, let me know.

Hopefully this helped you out.

Your main strategy is basically what I did. The problem is that the zerg player basically throws his stuff at me while I micro my butt off. Even if I still have SCVs (which I didn't in my first example) my tech will be damaged, and he'll have more on the way (in the aforementioned example it was 6). The bunker strategy might be more viable, but if he's smart he'll go for my workers. I've seen block the ramp strategies, does anyone know how that works?

Your main strategy is basically what I did. The problem is that the zerg player basically throws his stuff at me while I micro my butt off. Even if I still have SCVs (which I didn't in my first example) my tech will be damaged, and he'll have more on the way (in the aforementioned example it was 6).

The bunker strategy might be more viable, but if he's smart he'll go for my workers.

I've seen block the ramp strategies, does anyone know how that works?

The general strategy MOST people do is 8 Supply. ( Scout with the SCV when this supply is done ) 11 Racks. 12 Gas 15 (2nd supply) Whenever your gas is able, and your minerals are able.. Factory. Usually, against ZERG however the build is different. 8 Supply 11 Racks 13 Racks 15 Supply. This way you have more economy. Zergling rush at start can be blocked easily by blocking off your base entrance ( if there are more than 2 just make a bunker nearby CC and have a close formation. ) [quote] I've seen block the ramp strategies, does anyone know how that works?[/quote] Nub strat. Do not use.

The general strategy MOST people do is
8 Supply. ( Scout with the SCV when this supply is done )
11 Racks.
12 Gas
15 (2nd supply)
Whenever your gas is able, and your minerals are able.. Factory.

Usually, against ZERG however the build is different.
8 Supply
11 Racks
13 Racks
15 Supply.

This way you have more economy. Zergling rush at start can be blocked easily by blocking off your base entrance ( if there are more than 2 just make a bunker nearby CC and have a close formation. )

Quote

I've seen block the ramp strategies, does anyone know how that works?

Nub strat. Do not use.

Say, what exactly is the block ramp strat? Like a wall-in, or what?

Say, what exactly is the block ramp strat? Like a wall-in, or what?

Hack is possible you know? :S Its called zerg mineral hack, but i'll just say all you need is 50+ minerals to get about 500+ :P Depending on the unit used,can be done with pretty much ANYTHING that morphs.

Hack is possible you know? :S

Its called zerg mineral hack, but i'll just say all you need is 50+ minerals to get about 500+

Depending on the unit used,can be done with pretty much ANYTHING that morphs.

^read my first post [s]again[/s] for the first time [quote=BeDazed]This way you have more economy. Zergling rush at start can be blocked easily by blocking off your base entrance ( if there are more than 2 just make a bunker nearby CC and have a close formation. ) [quote] I've seen block the ramp strategies, does anyone know how that works?[/quote] Nub strat. Do not use.[/quote] Didn't you just contradict yourself? Anyway, should I just build my supply and my barracks at the ramp (if I have one)?

^read my first post again for the first time

Quote from BeDazed

This way you have more economy. Zergling rush at start can be blocked easily by blocking off your base entrance ( if there are more than 2 just make a bunker nearby CC and have a close formation. )

Quote

I've seen block the ramp strategies, does anyone know how that works?

Nub strat. Do not use.

Didn't you just contradict yourself?

Anyway, should I just build my supply and my barracks at the ramp (if I have one)?

[quote=Bianca]Hack is possible you know? :S Its called zerg mineral hack, but i'll just say all you need is 50+ minerals to get about 500+ :P Depending on the unit used,can be done with pretty much ANYTHING that morphs.[/quote] Playing against someone that hacks like that is impossible.

Quote from Bianca

Hack is possible you know? :S

Its called zerg mineral hack, but i'll just say all you need is 50+ minerals to get about 500+

Depending on the unit used,can be done with pretty much ANYTHING that morphs.

Playing against someone that hacks like that is impossible.

Not really. I beat someone who used it (was really surprised when I did).

Not really. I beat someone who used it (was really surprised when I did).

Then the person who used it must be dumb and retarded. ( or you had mistaken it for something else. ) and frazz, i meant block it with MARINES.

Then the person who used it must be dumb and retarded.

( or you had mistaken it for something else. )

and frazz, i meant block it with MARINES.

You're telling me to block it with marines or you're telling me that it's stupid? Also, a friend and I beat a hacker once. He was pretty retarded. He did countless ling and hydra frontal assaults. Fail. He tried going air but couldn't manage to hold on to a vespene expansion. After that he just left. Victory for Zim!

You're telling me to block it with marines or you're telling me that it's stupid?

Also, a friend and I beat a hacker once. He was pretty retarded. He did countless ling and hydra frontal assaults. Fail. He tried going air but couldn't manage to hold on to a vespene expansion. After that he just left. Victory for Zim!

SCVS (omg 60 hp) should be able to stop a four pool, unless you're talking about a 9 pool /all out ling build. BTW, don't people usually FE as terran, not do one base? If you have one marine, you can surround it with SCVS, so his lings can't get to it and die. I think BeDazed thought you meant "ramp block" as in blocking the choke with depots or something. Marines on the ramp work well if he's trying to run into your base and kill some SCVs.

SCVS (omg 60 hp) should be able to stop a four pool, unless you're talking about a 9 pool /all out ling build.
BTW, don't people usually FE as terran, not do one base?
If you have one marine, you can surround it with SCVS, so his lings can't get to it and die.
I think BeDazed thought you meant "ramp block" as in blocking the choke with depots or something.
Marines on the ramp work well if he's trying to run into your base and kill some SCVs.

[quote]BTW, don't people usually FE as terran, not do one base?[/quote] You're mistaken with Protoss. [quote] I think BeDazed thought you meant "ramp block" as in blocking the choke with depots or something.[/quote] No I clearly said block it with marines. Terrans always need a fluid move of macro, a clear path out of the base. A supply depot would not allow this. [quote]Marines on the ramp work well if he's trying to run into your base and kill some SCVs.[/quote] It works on everything early game. From Zling rushes to early dragoons. Also note that if he does not hack, a 4 pool should only have 6 lings, and no more than that. Or usually with 2 or 4 follow up lings. But if its a hacker, it'll have more than that. Be sure to differentiate.

Quote

BTW, don't people usually FE as terran, not do one base?

You're mistaken with Protoss.

Quote

I think BeDazed thought you meant "ramp block" as in blocking the choke with depots or something.

No I clearly said block it with marines. Terrans always need a fluid move of macro, a clear path out of the base. A supply depot would not allow this.

Quote

Marines on the ramp work well if he's trying to run into your base and kill some SCVs.

It works on everything early game. From Zling rushes to early dragoons.

Also note that if he does not hack, a 4 pool should only have 6 lings, and no more than that. Or usually with 2 or 4 follow up lings. But if its a hacker, it'll have more than that. Be sure to differentiate.

Actually, the block I see is usually one depot and one barracks, which allows for removal later on.

Actually, the block I see is usually one depot and one barracks, which allows for removal later on.

Don't use it.

Don't use it.

Does anyone know where that program is that lets you input what you want and tells the fastest path to get to it? I remember seeing it a few years ago at SC Legacy, but I haven't been able to find it since..

Does anyone know where that program is that lets you input what you want and tells the fastest path to get to it?

I remember seeing it a few years ago at SC Legacy, but I haven't been able to find it since..

Yes, Terrans often do fast expansions, and so do Protoss. And bedazed you misread my text; i said you THOUGHT that frazz was talking about rax/depot block (thats a stupid strat btw). Obviously blocking with marines is a good idea. why would you want to block easy access to your ramp with buildings? if it gets to the point where you have to do that to survive, then you've lost anyway. Turtling in your base allows your opponent to take control of the map.

Yes, Terrans often do fast expansions, and so do Protoss.
And bedazed you misread my text; i said you THOUGHT that frazz was talking about rax/depot block (thats a stupid strat btw). Obviously blocking with marines is a good idea.

why would you want to block easy access to your ramp with buildings? if it gets to the point where you have to do that to survive, then you've lost anyway. Turtling in your base allows your opponent to take control of the map.

Well, in my situation it would have worked out quite well. I would have been able to shoot at the lings with my one marine in safety. It's an early game strategy, not really a mid or late game. I guess the important question is: Should I have had more marines up? I would need at least three (or two in a bunker) to counter four lings. The ramp blocking strategy could allow me to tech a bit more without worrying as much about early defense.

Well, in my situation it would have worked out quite well. I would have been able to shoot at the lings with my one marine in safety. It's an early game strategy, not really a mid or late game.

I guess the important question is: Should I have had more marines up? I would need at least three (or two in a bunker) to counter four lings. The ramp blocking strategy could allow me to tech a bit more without worrying as much about early defense.

Don't waste your resources on badly placed buildings. 2 racks give you enough horsepower to pump out marines vs zerglings. If you are unsure, you can keep a scv or 2 at the ramp with marines behind it. Should they be stupid enough to try to get through, they would risk lots of zergling losses.

Don't waste your resources on badly placed buildings. 2 racks give you enough horsepower to pump out marines vs zerglings. If you are unsure, you can keep a scv or 2 at the ramp with marines behind it. Should they be stupid enough to try to get through, they would risk lots of zergling losses.