Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Mapmaking Assistance > Topic: Transmissions interfering with "hypers"
Transmissions interfering with "hypers"
Sep 8 2013, 4:44 am
By: Leeroy_Jenkins  

Sep 8 2013, 4:44 am Leeroy_Jenkins Post #1



Hello, I have a problem in a map I am making and I am hoping someone with better understanding of hyper triggers could chime in.

In my map, I am using what I would call "semi" hyper triggers. The computer player has ten hyper triggers, each with just one wait(100) and a preserve trigger. I did this to give a reasonable trigger response, but cut down on lag in the map.

There is also a "power meter" in my map, that players must move a marine to trigger the meter on their desired power level. I wanted to constantly ping the meter location while it is active for a player, but this is where I ran into my problem. It seems the transmission time acts as a wait, and speeds up the hypers. This means the power meter is constantly changing in speed, depending on how many players are using the power meter at a time.

So I was wondering how I could still use transmissions. Would a larger wait time (1000) interfere with anything? One other thing I tried was just one 1000wait transmission that fired every 20 dcs, but I couldn't tell if it was speeding up the meter or not.

I also have an extra question, it seems that in rare situations the hyper triggers stop working which affects the game some way. It is pretty rare that I notice it but I was wondering if this was just a side-effect of these "hyper" triggers.



None.

Sep 8 2013, 12:35 pm Moose Post #2



The duration of a transmission action is the same as doing as wait of the same length.

If your hyper triggers are not at the bottom of the trigger list, put them there and give them to all players. (Well, you have a dedicated computer player so you can just keep them with the computer actually.) There should only be a wait block if every player runs a wait at the same time. Feel free to do 63 waits and a preserve trigger once you do.




Sep 8 2013, 4:19 pm rockz Post #3

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

wait 100 means you're at 4 frame triggers, which effectively cuts the speed in half (6 triggers per second).

I recommend putting any hyper triggers to a player 8 computer. This should let you use waits and transmissions freely, but in general you shouldn't use them, especially constantly.

I believe transmissions can be recreated entirely with non-wait abilities if you just use a map ping and a display text. The only thing you don't get is the blinking circle on the ground. You can also use a transmission wait time of 0 and slow the transmission down with a DC.



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

Sep 8 2013, 6:15 pm Azrael Post #4



Quote from Leeroy_Jenkins
In my map, I am using what I would call "semi" hyper triggers. The computer player has ten hyper triggers, each with just one wait(100) and a preserve trigger. I did this to give a reasonable trigger response, but cut down on lag in the map.

This will still result in timing inconsistency, since you'll have the standard 1.5 second gap in there. A better way would be to use normal hyper triggers, but increase the duration of the waits. Instead of Wait 0, try Wait 128 and see how that feels. If you use Wait 100 for the standard hyper triggers, the responsiveness will be the same, without the constant 1.5 second gaps in there.

If you want it more or less responsive than that, you can add or subtract 42 from the waits. You should find something that works for you well before you get near 1500ms, which is what it's basically at right now.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 8 2013, 8:24 pm by Azrael.




Sep 8 2013, 7:20 pm Leeroy_Jenkins Post #5



Okay thanks guys. I didn't even know you could map ping without a transmission so that solves the original problem, and thanks for the help with the hypers azrael. Also, Azrael, I thought it was every 84ms?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 8 2013, 7:28 pm by Leeroy_Jenkins.



None.

Sep 8 2013, 8:16 pm Kaias Post #6



Only Transmissions can ping a unit (blinking selection circle around it). You can't replicate that with the Ping action, since it only applies to the minimap.



None.

Sep 8 2013, 8:43 pm Azrael Post #7



Quote from Leeroy_Jenkins
Also, Azrael, I thought it was every 84ms?

That's the minimum length of trigger cycles, which you normally see when you use Wait 0 (which is actually Wait 42).




Sep 8 2013, 8:53 pm rockz Post #8

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

IIRC wait 42-83 are the same (3 frame hyper triggers) and 84-125 are the same (4 frame hyper triggers). Not sure what happens when you go higher though, since 24 fps is 41.667 ms per frame.



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

Sep 8 2013, 9:31 pm Azrael Post #9



I think it's +1 to each of those time values (43-84 and 85-126). Not that it's a big deal either way, someone can just use a mid-range value to be sure.




Sep 9 2013, 10:36 pm Leeroy_Jenkins Post #10



I ultimately ended up just using hyper triggers with 0 waits, and cutting all the laggy stuff in half with a toggled switch condition. Probably the better way to go.



None.

Sep 10 2013, 5:47 am NudeRaider Post #11

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Leeroy_Jenkins
hyper triggers, each with just one wait(100)
Quote from Azrael
I think it's +1 to each of those time values (43-84 and 85-126). Not that it's a big deal either way, someone can just use a mid-range value to be sure.
So I'd like to point out:
Quote from shoutbox
NudeRaider -- add 42 to that range to get to the next step: 84+42=126 ms cycles
NudeRaider -- Fun fact: hypers with wait values between 0 and 104 are all the same: 84ms per cycle.
Minor mistake in what I shouted: Can't just add 42 the first time. Have to add 1-42 to the max (104) because larger range for the first increment.




Sep 10 2013, 12:01 pm rockz Post #12

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

I'm 99% sure I tested this and wait 60 will result in 3 frame hyper triggers (104 ms per cycle)



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

Sep 10 2013, 1:14 pm Oh_Man Post #13

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Don't know if it helps but I found that 'subtract 0' did weird shit to me whereas "set to 0" did not. They are not the same thing.




Sep 10 2013, 11:05 pm rockz Post #14

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

subtract 0 does nothing?

I know that adding -1 will send the number into the negative, whereas subtracting 1 will not.



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

Sep 10 2013, 11:26 pm Oh_Man Post #15

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I'm telling you it does stuff. Maybe it subtracts 84 like how + 0 adds 84.




Sep 11 2013, 5:58 am rockz Post #16

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

Can you be more descriptive as to perhaps what are you adding, what are you subtracting, and what are the results vs expected results.

I just tested adding 0 to custom score and it stayed at 0. I don't think I have ever been more lost in my life.



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

Sep 11 2013, 11:06 am Oh_Man Post #17

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

It interfered with displaying portraits. I think. I can't remember exactly; will try to find out later.




Sep 16 2013, 3:46 pm Oh_Man Post #18

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

OK this is what it does:
transmission with subtract 0, followed immediately by display potrait of X seconds...

What it appears to do is double the time the potrait displays for. So if you have subtract 0 and then display potrait for 10 seconds it will display for 20.

Whereas if you use set to 0 it doesn't do this.

Weiiiiiiiiiiiird!




Sep 17 2013, 12:51 am rockz Post #19

ᴄʜᴇᴇsᴇ ɪᴛ!

i believe this is because if you add 0 milliseconds, it treats it like a normal display text, which has a certain wait value on it already?

so wait blocks.



"Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman - do we have to call the Gentleman a gentleman if he's not one?"

Sep 17 2013, 1:17 pm Oh_Man Post #20

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

I never added 0 milliseconds. I only was comparing subtract 0 milliseconds and set to 0 milliseconds.




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