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Actually baptism has absolutely nothing to do with going to hell. Baptism is purely symbolic of an inward change, an inward change that I doubt any babies have gone through. I'm pretty sure the souls of children go to Heaven regardless. In reality, Christianity isn't really supposed to be based on fear, it's based on mercy.
Well I guess here it depends on which of the many sects of Christianity you believe in. I'm not sure how many view baptism as a prereq for Heaven and how many don't. I can say with certainty though that for Catholicism, Limbo was where all the unbaptized babies went.
I can see why someone who doesn't believe in God would think that it is based on fear though. Christianity is often viewed as:
God tells you to what to do. What do you do?
1) Do what God says to do. -> Go to Heaven.
2) Don't do what God says. -> Go to Hell.
While in reality It's a lot closer to this:
You are going to Hell because well, you're only human.
God is willing to let it slide. What do you do?
1) Take up the offer. -> Go to Heaven.
2) Do things my own way. -> Go to Hell.
Semantics. They both mean the same thing. Your sandwhich argument falls for the same problem.
God made you in the first place, he made Hell, he made Heaven. There is no choice but God's way or the highway. From the moment of your birth you are already consigned to the depths of Hell unless you do X, X, and X. You are BORN sick, and COMMANDED to be well, under punishment of eternal torture, no less.
Don't use sophistry to cover up this wickedness. Look at it for what it is. If you believe in this type of God, than that is what you have to accept. That from the moment of your birth you are doomed to eternal torture unless you do what God says.
Oh that's true. My example was a little bit under-formed. I'll change it to: So say "Christianity" is just a set of instructions for not falling into a supposed pit of spikes, and you can either follow them or not follow them. However nobody that ventures towards the area where the spikes supposedly are ever returns.
Same argument, God created the spikes, God created you. Then he tells you what to do in order to not fall into the spikes. He also tells you you are going to fall into the spikes NO MATTER WHAT, unless you do exactly X, X, and X.
Here, I'll use some analogies to impress upon you how terrible this is. Say I'm a researcher with a rat in a box. If the rat doesn't press the 'worship' button, at least once a day - then I begin torturing the rat slowly and painfully while keeping it alive for as long as possible until it at last dies. But wait, this isn't a perfect parity. Because, for your beliefs, there is no death, the torture is eternal
....
I could up the ante: Let's say I'm a Prison Warden with a bunch of inmates. They have to do all of the God-worshippy things or else I start beating the shit out of them on a daily basis. Saaame thing.
Now, is anyone here morally bankrupt enough to say that this is a just and good system? That this set-up is the handwork of an omnibenevolent being? Come on! This is wickedness, and you are all trying to hide that fact through sophistry. I beg of you, stop reasoning like this: 1. God is omnibenevolent. 2. If it appears that God is not omnibenevolent, go to 1. Instead judge its omnibenevolence based on its actions, don't just assume it
prima facie. If you do, you're always going to be justifying every immoral action it makes.
In fact, I don't think I've met a single Christian who HASN'T impressed upon me what will happen to my soul if I don't convert before my death.
I guess you haven't met many Christians, or anyone on SEN for that matter.
I smell a No true Scotsman fallacy. I've met many Christians, and Jack from SEN has said it.
Something I've always been curious about.
Could it be that heaven and hell are simply metaphorical?
Is heaven a real place or just the concept of having a fullfilled life.
Is hell a real place or is it just the product of living a life without purpose.
Does having a fullfilled life come for sharing love with others?
I don't know, but I do know those all sound very disappointing.
One should not decide what is true or false based on how it makes one feel. One should look
only at the facts. So whether or not it is disappointing is completely irrelevant.
Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on May 18 2011, 6:35 am by Oh_Man.