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Quote from name:private_parts
I think the problem with trying to separate this with the religion issue is that people who do not believe in evolution do not do so on empirical grounds. They do so because of religious convictions.
Uh, how can you make a claim like that? I don't believe in evolution for reasons very far from religious convictions. I would say that most people who believe in evolution think they have vasts amount of "proof" simply because they've always been told it's true. That could easily be considered a form of religious conviction, could it not? I'd be more careful in saying things like this, as what you said just isn't true.
Well I would be more inclined to believe you if you actually said why you do not believe in evolution instead of just making the assertion that you do not do it for religious reasons. I am inclined to believe that you do.
I don't believe in Evolution because:
Where is all this evidence that everyone claims evolution has? Everyone constantly talks about all this evidence, but all the evidence I've been shown is either evidence for micro-evolution, inaccurate, or a hoax.
Quote from name:private_parts
And seriously, that is the best argument you can come up with? That belief in evolution is like a form of religious conviction? Your shooting yourself in the foot with that one.
Maybe you should point out why it's a bad argument and provide some discussion? I'm all open for discussion, but I don't support you simply stating that what I'm saying is me shooting me in the foot.
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But you are just twisting the words original meaning to fit the discoveries that empirical science has made. Aha - yes, the bible was right all along! But the Bible also said in Exodus that one should 'suffer not a witch to live', this resulted in hundreds of innocent women dying terrifying deaths on the stake.
I'm not sure about twisting words. I could say the same thing about your claim, and I don't think telling other people that their just twisting words promotes quality discussion. You should probably explain to me why or how I was simply twisting words. Also, the Bible said "Thou shalt not kill", and I don't think killing of people who were defined to be a witch by arbitrary definitions was following the bible in any way. I'd also very much like to see where exactly that quote is, I'm just curious to read it within the context it was written.
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Look at all the advances empirical science has given us. A huge multitude. What has religion given us? Nothing.
I don't think anyone here has a problem with empirical evidence giving humanity a lot of insight. However, I would have a problem with making a point about empirical evidence assuming that it somehow connects back to and supports evolution, or to assume it means that religion does nothing for humanity. Nobody is saying that evolution = empirical evidence, or that religion != empirical evidence. The scientific theory != evolution. Just because someone is religious does not mean that they cannot use the scientific theory. The Wright brothers were devout Christians that wanted to study God's design of birds' wings in order to create a flying machine.
http://www.examiner.com/christian-spirituality-in-columbus/the-wright-brothers-faith-to-be-the-first-to-flyLeonardo da Vinci very heavily trusted in relying on empirical evidence and experience, though he believed in God and was some sort of Theologist. I think he was Catholic (
X).
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I am not saying religion has done nothing it has done stuff
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What has religion given us? Nothing.
If you're careful of what you say, instead of letting a negative bias drive your words what you say would be more clear to people that read it. I looked at these two lines and was completely confused for a while, had to go back and read what you wrote two or three times.
Here's a list of a lot of influential scientists that were religious:
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.htmlIt's easy for a person who has a religion similar to Christianity to have a healthy mindset in trying to understand how our world works. The bible tells people to study and learn and understand the world. If you believe and infinitely smart being created everything, then you'll more than likely be inclined to figure everything out. Perhaps you want to understand how the "design" of everything works together. However with evolution you are told you are an animal and share a common heritage with earthworms. Evolution is the idea that the most evolved deserve to live, and the weak deserve to die. Evolution is a theory of death. By death society is bettered. What sort of lines of thinking would evolve from thinking, that the best way for society to advance is to evolve? Many people start thinking of how to speed up evolution, and things like genocide and eugenics start popping up. If I were to believe that there is no god, nor a reason for my existence, then I really would feel okay with shooting Aborigines because I'd feel like I was bettering all of humanity.
There is also the worry that people will go off and kill witches if they listen to the bible, but it clearly states to not kill anyone. The only time people were to kill another is when god says to, and he doesn't say that very often.
I'd like to know what major advancements today came forth from the theory of evolution. I haven't been able to find one yet. Perhaps it just doesn't promote healthy lines of thinking, I'm not sure. I do know however that most major advancements in society came from people who were religious. Einstein was Jewish, yet Agnostic (there is some uncertainty). Isaac Newton was devoutly religious and considered Theology highly important (
X).
This wiki page says Benjamin Frankling was a "proponent of religion in general". (
X)
Marie Curie was a Roman Catholic until her mother and or sister died.
Niels Bohr went to the University of Copenhagen which was "a centre of Roman Catholic theological learning, but also had faculties for the study of law, medicine, and philosophy" (
X). I also found that he was a Theologist: "He believed in an underlying order, but it was a good deal messier than that which Einstein could accept. For Bhor, God could play dice because probability ruled the universe. (
X)
Max Planck was also a Theologist (
X).
It seems Leonardo da Vinci believed in god as well (
X).
Galileo was deeply religious, I think Catholic (
X).
Nikola Tesla grew up with a father as a Serbian Orthodox Priest.
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 4 2011, 7:23 pm by CecilSunkure.
None.