Quote from A_of-s_t

Quote from Vrael

-it's no longer a game really, it's a merit system, which we already have

We could just go back to elitism.

You say that like we stopped being elitist.

Generally, the mineral rewards should work like this (most-->least; if it falls into two or more categories, closer to the top triumphs):

• Creating tutorial or example videos (effort should be taken into consideration)
  
• Creating tutorial or example maps (see above)
  
• Creating a map for a mapping contest (shorter period = less minerals)*
  
• Creating a map (see three bullets up)
  
• Submitting a map to the DLDB (exception: edits or minor changes in maps)
  

• ---

  Posts in Mapmaking Assistance (as long as they contribute to such; no "thanks guys!" for minerals)
  
• Posts in New Theories and Ideas (see above)
  
• Significant contributions to the new wiki (such as an entire page ported from the old wiki)
  
• Starting & finishing projects (half for starting, half for finishing, maybe?]
  
• Contributing to projects (based on significance)
  
• Creating stuff for SEN (skins, icons, smileys, etc.)
  
• Posts elsewhere in SC-related SEN, such as the terrain sections
  
• Posting in SEN forums (like this post)
  
• Hosting/judging a mapping contest (see bullet #3)
  
• Posting in Serious Discussion (as long as it is such, contributes to conversations, etc.)
  
• Posting in Other (exception: Null)
  
• Karma bonuses^_§
  
• Activity (+1 for every 15 activity, mayhap?)
  
• Hosting a forum game (Devilesk's Mafia)
  
• Posting in Null (yes, I intended for this to be last)

*Minerals provided for creating a map for a mapping contest should be given based on: a flat amount (maybe x times the average score of all maps?), judged rank bonus (1^st/2^nd/3^rd/etc, maybe [# of maps +1 -rank of map]/10 or something), and x multiplied by the average score of the submitted map. For example, say that 7 maps were submitted the average score was 7.8, the map in question did not get into the preset ranks, and the map averaged an 8.4 rating. If "x" is .3, and the judged rank bonus doesn't apply, then the minerals the creator gets would round to 5 (.3 * 7.8 + .3 * 8.4 = 4.86). I think that the duration of the mapping contest should replace "x", with one day equal to .1 (or .143).

In any case, this is just a list I threw together, based on what I think merits minerals. The half below the line should receive significantly less minerals than the half above, and Null posting should be little to none at all. A topic's creator, upon staff review, could also be granted minerals if the topic is of enough quality.

_^§I'd also like to see karma make a reappearance, and contribute a little to minerals, though I doubt either will happen. If it had a feature like the "report" function, staff could quickly view a post and decide to reward (or not) minerals, once it reaches a certain number. Maybe a page in the staff forums that operated like the "new posts" in our forums (but with karma), that only the staff can read (not those that only have staff forum access). If the person that +karma'd a post was tracked, then staff could possibly see who is abusing the system as well. Also, if there was a system so that once the post's "karma" made it to 5 or so, then whoever posted could gain minerals, it would reduce the ability to abuse.

Alright, I spent enough time working on this. Critique obviously welcome, or I wouldn't have posted something this massive.

How about for the assistance forums, the topic creator can flag a post (or multiple posts) as 'the best answer' and only the people who get their post flagged get minerals?

Well, I have a good way of testing any mineral system to see if it's working properly and it's this: If I'm not the richest person in terms of minerals with that system in place, then the system is flawed.

I fail to see how making signatures and hosting mafia have anything to do with starcraft. Even if you say this is a social oriented website, I find no reason to award a Starcraft oriented monetary system to nonstarcraft activities.

Just because minerals are a starcraft concept, doesn't mean we can't reward them for any kind of contributions to SEN.

It actually means exactly that. On my localhost, I already disabled mineral gaining by non-sc1/2 forums and ppl will not gain minerals for stuff which is not helping sen itself or is just like mafia games.

I suppose if people donate minerals to you for doing signitures, or you some small reward for hosting mafia -- sure, that would be fine. But I'd rather see people who make SC/SC2 oriented things get rewarded more.

Abusable. I would say to just have people with the most Karma in a topic when it gets closed as 'Solved' gets minerals, make a system for it.

Funny how every topic now-a-days seems to get devilesk bashed.

It's because people with no taste or sense don't like to see the opinions of someone with good taste and sense.

I'd say significant contributions in the other forum that engage many members in the community at a time should be rewarded. Things like mafia and providing a service to dozens of SEN members is contributing even more than having a silly unfinished map that only a handful of people actually care about.

So, let me get this straight:
You want to get rewarded for hosting a mafia game because it promotes social activity on a site where the users have been complaining that there is too much social activity and not enough work being done?

If the users want more work done, they should do it themselves. It's their fault for sitting around and complaining.

Currently social activity is the only thing SEN has going for it. And it's not like you can't just choose one, you can reward both. Also, I'm not even the one who praises SEN for being better than sc2mapster because we're so social, but plenty of other people do.

My list in order of Most to Least would be similar, but with some notable changes:

Generally, the mineral rewards should work like this (most-->least; if it falls into two or more categories, closer to the top triumphs):

• Creating an awesome map (one produces in SEN's mapmaking forum, of course)
  
• Creating a map for a mapping contest (shorter period = less minerals)*
  
• Creating a map
  
• Significant contributions to the new wiki (such as an entire page ported from the old wiki)
  
• Creating tutorial or example videos (effort should be taken into consideration)
  
• Creating tutorial or example maps (see above)
  
• Submitting a map to the DLDB (exception: edits or minor changes in maps)
  

• ---

  Posts in Mapmaking Assistance (as long as they contribute to such; no "thanks guys!" for minerals)
  
• Creating stuff for SEN (skins, icons, smileys, etc.)
  
• Posts in New Theories and Ideas (see above)
  
• Starting & finishing projects (half for starting, half for finishing, maybe?]
  
• Contributing to projects (based on significance)
  
• Posts elsewhere in SC-related SEN, such as the terrain sections
  
• Posting in SEN forums (like this post)
  
• Hosting/judging a mapping contest (see bullet #3)
  
• Posting in Serious Discussion (as long as it is such, contributes to conversations, etc.)
  
• Posting in Other (exception: Null)
  
• Karma bonuses^_%uFFFD
  
• Activity ( 1 for every 15 activity, mayhap?)
  
• Hosting a forum game (Devilesk's Mafia)
  
• Posting in Null (yes, I intended for this to be last)

@Devilesk:
You are arrogant. Your ridiculous posting isn't funny, and any system in which you have the most minerals is obviously being abused. You continuously post in a pretentious, pugnacious manner, and what's worse is that you get away with it. To the staff member who deletes this, yes I know, but it's worth it all the same.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 23 2010, 10:26 am by Devourer. Reason: That's right, but it's still flaming.

Vrael, shouldn't tutorial videos be worth more than wiki pages? In all honesty, it seems like more work needs to be put forth to make a video than just a page, especially if a lot is copy+pasted, and some formatting stuff is thrown in. Of course, it wasn't ever meant to be "you can only earn from 'x' to 'y' for 'z'". Many of them aught to overlap, and I honestly think that if they don't it'll wind up breaking the minerals again. Since I didn't mention that before, I figured I aught to now that someone actually took the time to read it at all. Long story short, my list is designed to provide opportunities for the social SENners, then active SENners, and at the top would be productive SENners.

I also like the "best answer" idea for MMA, but looking back I think that the answer should be reviewed; if it's something extremely simple like "map won't start" --> "did you place start locations?" little or no minerals should be rewarded, while a two or three day-long debugging session would merit more. Also, thinking back, I'd rearrange the "Creating stuff for SEN" to be above the "Posts in Mapmaking Assistance".

Random thought: Confirming your email gives you the activity minerals. Another: maybe have a breakdown, visible by staff and the user (like severity), that displays how you earn your minerals. Thoughts?

Replying to devilesk when he does that is at best contributing to his apparent goal of derailing every *useful* topic, so it's usually best to ignore him if he's not contributing to discussion.

Well, it would depend of course. For example, I think someone who does something like test every single unit for disable/enable/crash properties and index them like we had at Maplantis would be worth more than a single video tutorial on a single topic. A video tutorial on a topic isn't nearly as helpful as a wiki page on the same topic, where all the information is laid out for your disposal versus having to watch the whole stupid video to get the info. Video tutorials are really only good for complete newbies at whatever the topic is.

Agreed, they're annoying to wait for. I'd say that SEN needs a few video tutorials at the basic topics to get people started and the rest can be expressed in text/screenshots for best effect.

I think we need to make minerals given depend on the popularity or usefulness. For example, if a wiki article is visited x times, the person gets x/10 minerals; ten more visits, one more mineral. Same with maps. If they're downloaded a lot or rated higher, the person should get more minerals for submitting them. Maybe even a system for rating wiki articles?

Big no to this.

Want to explain?

I can. People could link straight to download the maps in a signature, the article can be done the same way. Links would be spammed SEN-wide, and the shoutbox would be especially prone to it. In addition, just because something has high downloads/views doesn't mean it's beneficial. [rhetorical]How many times are the hentai/strip ________ games played? How many views does farty's page have?[/rhetorical]

If the minerals were to be doled out based on views and/or downloads, many decent maps would likely become unnoticed by many.

Abuseable. And not really a workaround to avoid it.