Cool, rite when AP testing is done

+1

Btw...with mech back to the way it was before, and with l2 being even stronger, won't it just be op again? I thought speed was taken out to nerf it, and now it will have speed...?

It's no coincidence.

And I'm actually not giving it speed back anymore, along with a few other things. Moose's changes make alot more sense after much internal debate. It actually fires faster the quicker mech moves, so it definitely needs it to be purchased.

Does this mean it will cost more for speed.

Mech was never op'd.

In the hands of a good player, it was unkillable, + its l4 is one of the highest DPS attacks in the game. If you don't think that's OP, then I won't bother arguing with you anymore.

Coming from a person who says ling vs medic opening, and ling wins, and says ling rapes mech even with micro, and ling rapes bat

Anyways....

Far from unkillable. Extremely Weak to mass spawn, for example f he doesnt have a decent amount of armor by rines hes nearly unplayable and his only spawn control move is L4 which sucks ass in terms of Spawn control. Volt can go toe to toe with him, and deny him farm. Bat DESTROYS his farm as well, and DESTROYS his L4. When moose made warrior L4 120, he effectively made hybrid warrior soft counter mech, High auto-attack with a stun forces him out of vult mode and into one of his weaker forms. So does SpecOps with mine training. LM completely easts his farm as well, not to mention L1+L3 combo destroys L4. Archer (especially M8e Now) harasses him out lane until L4 so easyliy. Ling L4 Gimps his L4 in vult mode basically 3-4 shotting him. Also his only viable mode is Vulture mode, make him transform and he dies. Easyliy denied farm out of lane. Denying him farm is key, also heavily upgrade dependent and without sims/farm/2x splash his killing power drops dramatically. What made him seem op'd was how he can explosively dominate from vulture mode from jump street, which is why pubs abused him and his spawn killing antics (which is cheating). However hes another unit pubs love because in general pubs succumb to L4 bombs that are a telegraphed a mile away.

Powerful yes, op'd no. Did he need a small nerf in M8e, for the overall good of the community, probably yes. Retrospect 60 was a bit much for a speed upgrade, and 30 for a range upgrade was uneeded. Its also compounded by the fact hes not a decent farmer by any means. In the grand scheme of things, he was a powerful hero overall, def high tier. Though not some god.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on May 4 2010, 8:04 pm by DoLLe.

'Extremely weak to mass spawn'
/facepalm

What server do you play on and what's your username?

What spawn control abilities does mech have against, against say 5-6 archers camp spawning 4 achers every round he has nothing but L4 to control spawn, or golem tribunals. Warrior has L4 and L3, Bat can control spawn and web, Ling has lurks, LM reavers, Sin can wreck spawn anytime he wants, Rine is obvious. What does mech have? Warrior, SpecOps, Ling, Sin all have the capacity to nearly defend forever, volt has his limits but he can defenitely feed. Mass golem tribunals, Mystic fighters, or MASS amounts of Archer Camps and mech cannot do a thing, he cannot handle mass spawn while the others i mentioned have the potential to hold off forever.

Name:
Dolle[The]Beast

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 4 2010, 8:38 pm by DoLLe.

Mech has armour and a decent attack, plus plenty of HP via different forms. Mech simply tanks spawn, getting huge exp from it.

What server?

Server east:

Mech does not have the tools to deal with mass spawn. Mech mode decent auto attack and a minor nuke in terms in spawn control, overall sucks. Vulture cannot L2 vs mass spawn, which regulates this mode to L4 and low HP makes it vulnerable to death. Tank mode L3 can only take out chunks of mass spawn, but its slow, and its not mana effecient compared to warriors L3, or Lings L3, or Marines L4. L4 is the only option mech has left ot deal with mass spawn and it sucks. The best spawn also happens to be big spawns so the bikes modes portion is negligble vs spawn in terms of L4. You also forget L4 traps him, and against mass spawn its a deathwish, such as archers, golems and fighters. Fighters have about 900+ HP, Golems have about 550+, archers are about 310HP.

Mech doesnt have the AOE damage to deal with mass spawn with such high numbers, except maybe archers but those are built for cheap numbers. You also forget people can switch lanes with spawn, meaning while hes busy cleaning up the mass spawn with his proably 3RD l4, the mass spawn at bottom is backdooring his base. Simply put mech doesnt have the tools to deal with mass spawn. You also forget that there are players behind the spawn, most popular include:

SpecOps:
Forces you into L2 for the rest of the spawn battle with his L4, then you slowly die to golems/mystic fighters with shitty L4. GG. You cannot counterspawn vs him because he has tri-lane feed with L4 gg.

Assault:
Hides behind spawn in his bomber while webbing you pushing you back, spawn moves foward, and negating any spell damage you casted with web. eventually your stuck at the temple while hes webbing you over and over, all the while the spawn is destroying temples HP by the second while surronding it.

Warrior:
L4 and stun you, while spawn attacks you, and he attacks you into death. Negates any counterspawn advatnage you can come up with.

Ling:
If he cannot beat you pound for pound, he can and will spawn you, and do it ten times easier to you than you can to him.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 4 2010, 9:13 pm by DoLLe.

Tank. The. Spawn.

I never said anything about using l4 on spawn. Maybe l3? Otherwise, you and your allies just need to tank and tank and tank until they've fed you to death, then you push into their base.

Lmao. You only do this, when the mech is alone and you have no direct counter to him. Hes weak to spawn, why you mass spawn with 3 people on the opposing side in the game, one of which is probably a mass spawn buffer?

Again im not talking about public play. Why would you even think i was suggesting massing spawn vs 3 people so they can feed and kill me by feeding off the spawn i created vs THREE PEOPLE? So let me re-iterate since I have to break it down to you.

- Mech is weak to spawn, this is especially useful when you have have a good team but have no direct counter to him (I.E SpecOps, Assualt, DM Comes to mind).
- Do this when he is A.L.O.N.E as 3 even 2 with the right combination can hold off mass spawn nearly forever.
- When people are talking about a heros effectiveness vs mass spawn tactics, 99.9% of the time they are talking about the hero in context of itself not itsself and teamates. As i stated before, almost any two combination of heroes can hold of and feed mass spawn with half a brain. 3 is a no brainer.
- With that being said, again mech sucks vs mass spawn. Where as others (Ops, Ass,War, Ling, Volt) can hold off spawn nearly forever BY THEMSELVES, and their spawn tolerance is very high compared to MECH, whose mass spawn tolerance is very low.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 4 2010, 9:51 pm by DoLLe.

So we're talking 3vmech? Sigh. Mech should lose regardless of spawn, if it's 3v1.

Sigh. i guess i have to break it down EVEN MORE.

END GAME, mech rapes Rine,Bat,DM, o Rine, Bat, or Bat, DM. With spawn however he cannot win GET IT? max mana mech will lose vs MASS SPAWN, however if they try to kill him THEY WILL LOSE, because incidently he counters ALL THREE.

You seem to be countering arguments that aren't mine, and making assumptions. When did anyone say it was mech vs bat,dm, rine? Or any combination of the 3. My only assumptions when discussing theoretical fights are that it's 3v3, and all 6 players are decent.

Now, against DM and bat, they should indeed up spawn. Rine should theoretically be able to tank mech via power rine and feed.

Next time, please make any non-standard factors in this theoretical matchup clear, instead of making assumptions.

I used THE EXAMPLE, of a TEAM, that would BENEFIT from MASS SPAWN, against an ENDGAME MECH.

You said "FACEPALM MECH ISNT WEAK VS SPAWN! BECAUSE HE HAS TEAMATES AND BLAH BLAH". NEWSFLASH: ANYONE CAN COUNTER SPAWN WITH TEAMATES!

The reason I chose this scenario was because END GAME MECH, counters any possible PK ATTEMPT they can throw out. Who is THEY? The EXAMPLE I used which is BAT,RINE,DM or ANY COMBINATION OF THE TWO IN THAT TEAM. I wasnt ASSUMING because I POSED that EXAMPLE.

Then you have no idea what I'm talking about because nobody said UP THE SPAWN, I said BUILD SPAWN/MASS SPAWN. UPPING and BUILDING is two different things. GOLEMS AND MYSTIC FIGHTERS do not come of warp gates, therefore its not considered upping spawn its BUILDING SPAWN. Now do you get it?

Come on man, this isnt rocket science, its TS.

Ass......bad abbreviation for assassin...

Anyways, mech isn't very good vs spawn. It struggles vs spawn even when he has max mana. He doesn't have a spell thats good for killing masses of units. Tanks have to focus at least a few of them to kill one spawn, and if they all focus on one spawn, that is a huge waste of mana. Also, splitting 9 tanks to attack different units is quite difficult...

Maybe, mech vs just spawn wouldn't be too bad for the mech, but when other heroes are constantly putting pressure on the mech, he can't do much. If he leaves or changes targets to a hero, the spawn comes in and pwns him.

Also, hydras and goons do full dmg to mech. Just something else to consider when comparing him with other heroes.

LOL AGREED on the abb. of assassin, lulz.

On a serious note, you are absolutely correct. Thank You for seeing what I'm talking about.

It's not as easy to deny mech exp as you say. Mech has one of the easiest exping spells. L1 has low cost, high range, and can 2x farm when done right. When mech is too powerful to kill and he is being spawned, he can just focus on hp upgrades/armor upgrades, then counter-spawn and PK/base-rape.

Assassin abbr is Sin.