Pubbies are people who play public games on battle.net, don't map, and in general aren't pro.

The mech's range IS a factor. How many times I have managed to pin down the hydra with my l1 and gain free hits on them because they're afraid of getting hit by those tanks. Also it is the gateway scramble! There're more factors than just the properties of the two heros can be used. One big factor is the spawns. A good mech can make great manipulation on the spawns in order to push the hydra away. (Well a good hydra can get around at that)

Well to be fair---at equal skill level, the hydra will usually come out winning.

Aw that hurts, I'm a pubby, but I'd say I'm pretty decent. True there're many times I make the darned mistakes, but when I'm in shape I can just do...fine...?

OK scrap what I said. I play pub games because I want to bully the nubs to gain confidence before my friends come online. I'm in shape when I'm confident.

I'm surprised how many people hate the rine's l3----I just played a m8t game and people are screaming 'no rine allowed!'

Just because of that one spell. wow.

Guys... http://www.staredit.net/topic/6408/

i was playing a game the other day, and my friend was lm. he was complaining about his l2 and that it was making him lose minerals. he said something about losing 5 minerals each time he used it. i dont have a replay, and all i remember was that we were the south team.

http://www.roblox.com/Temple-Siege-item?id=3625418

Yep, I don't doubt that you have. I've probably done it more than you. That doesn't mean it's true at top level, though. If the player fails to judge correctly that he can win that encounter then you will obviously have the advantage. If he makes the correct assessment, however, and realizes that a Hydra with +2 and +1 Mutas will be able to take a +2 Mech, you're in trouble.

Agreed. Even though a mech vs hydra is very easy if there's a difference skill level, a simple mistake can really turn all mech effort into ash.

But still, if a mech and a volt has to face a hydra in the gateway scramble, I'd still say the mech go instead of the hydra. (yes I'm still upset about being told to go against a hydra by a mech and he thinks he's better than me.
1v1'ed him and raped him totally with my hydra against his volt since "hydra doesn't counter volt", idiot)

It's kinda outdated...

posting an old test map for the hellz of it, and cuz of how overdue M9 is. All it does is show off the new way mech's lv2 will work. Play the map if you just want to get used to it before the map is finally done.[attach=6262]

Attachments:

At least its not as overdue as 1.5/6

Also can clarify how to open it.

Truth be told Mech is a horrible capper, and speaking of horrible cappers, so is ling. In no particular order here are the best opening cappers:

Archer - Under utilized Great opening capper: fast range attack, cheap early L1 dps for sending nearly anyone back after two clean L1s and autoattack harass, can only pretty much fail vs Dark mages and a Skilled Spec ops. Also great partner for contests in middle, so much early DPS, and with a early stunner like volt, its nearly insta-gib mid. However, he is easyliy gimped by spawn unless hes able to 2shot it.

SpecOps - So obvious, Mine cap, fast auto-attack dps, stim, need i say more. Made more annoying with opening HP Kit, Only destroyed by Dark Mage and Medic, and punished by archer due to sloppy play.

Dark Mage - Mael, Snare, High opening auto-attack, high starting HP, pretty much rapes nearly all, probably only medic can go pound for pound.

Medic: I should note here, that I play power med because L4 rush generally seems to lead to sloppy play on my teamates. So my first 3-4 go into minerals, that being said she destroys pretty much destroys everyone or just stallevels so godly not to mention spirit capping. With skilled play she can wear down even the biggies (Mech, Volt, Hydra)

Honorable Mentions:
Assault @ Top: Web Blocking, Weblocking, Dubspawn stall, L1 mana drain, and other tactics turn a subpar capper anywhere else into godly capper at top. His only bright point anywhere else is stalling, which he is excellent at. (melee cannot cap vs him WHAT so ever).

LM @ Top: Dont argue, hes the worst capper ever. However, he does have one longshot, Hallu trap both ramps = gg top. Look pro if you can pull it off. Against DM, dont bother.

Assassin @ Mid: Few people know this: Assassin can stall mid forever with teleport in broad daylight, North or South except vs DM, Do not send him anywhere else or else you will lose the cap. Insane mid stalling potential.

Warrior @ anywhere: Insanely annoying stalling potentional, as spawn cannot wear him down due to L1+ 2 armor which translates into -12 damage. But anyone who can micro can wear him down. Has no early DPS so hes stuck blind rushing people however, he should be stalling long enough to wait for help. Punish anyone who wants to trade melee swings with you.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 30 2010, 10:48 pm by DoLLe.

Mutant is one of the best cappers if you play it right. I suggest you try meet the player Ergling, and play with him to see an example.

Mutant is a horrible capper. He is easily outfarmed and can only stall.

A PROPERLY PLAYED mutant beats out medic, mech, fbat, badly played marine, LM, sometimes DM, summy, and sin.

Only DM + mael and spawn, archer, and warrior can beat him, and mutant can feed + stall against all, except rine. Rine is iffy, and best just stalled rather than taken headon, unless you can trap him for any length of time.

EDIT
Forgot to mention volt. Volt is iffy but if you time his mana right, mutant wins again.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 30 2010, 11:54 pm by Jack.

Lets break it down, shall we. We are talking in context of opening cap strats, and 3v3, with people of equal skill level.

Ling vs Bat
Bat has natural 1 armor and stim, and can splash spawn, and cant negate any damage ling can do via his L1. Its also beneficial to for bat to up armor early vs ling anyways which helps with his tanking of spawn early. Ling can up armor too but that isnt a smart idea, he needs his minerals desperately for attack and L2 upgrade for cracklings, not to mention bat out-DPS's him at this stage anyways with stim. In the end he will lose a war of attrition and a slugfest, if he gets l2 somehow web him. He cannot outstall bat nor cap vs him. Not to mention ling cannot afford to trade hits with bat between spawn and bats auto attacks. Also starting HP gap. Not Favorable.

Ling vs Medic
This is obvious. Ling loses. Healing, concussive, spirit cap, ranged. Need I say more? NOT Favorable.

Ling vs DT
Maybe favors ling, but anyone with a half of brain would send DT mid, always mid, never anywhere else, then its just a stall fest. Guess in lings favor, but its more of whos partners caps first to come help. More neutral than anything. Though sins naturally high auto attack damage will wear down ling fast. Neutral.

Ling vs Warrior
Another stallout/attrition fest, too bad ling cannot tank spawn like our buddy here, nor can he trade hits with him, also he cannot do any significant damage to him with his natural 2armor + L1, mostly neutral but in terms of a stall fest ling loses. No way ling can trade hits with warrior, best auto-attack damage second to Sin. Generally not favorable.

Ling vs Volt
Now were talking. This is interesting, this can go either way, i will say this is easier for ling hands down. However if volt can definitely knock ling out of the cap race, 1 stun is like 3 auto attacks. Volt should not be tanking the spawn either. Still winnable for volt, but i have to give it to ling overall, just due to his speed and attack speed. Though again, if volt knows good positoning and knows what hes doing, not easy whatsoever. In fact I say either way. Neutral.

Ling vs LM
Haha. Gotta be pro to able not to get gimped by L1, still hurts at extremely low levels, winnable but not easy, neither is going to really cap, probably a war of attrition and who gets worn down by spawn first. Also he has storm, something to mention. Probably not as easy as it seems. Either way, probably lings favor. It's LM. Favorable.

Archer vs Ling
Archer for sure. Early L1 DPS and ranged, only hope is for spawn gimp, if hydra knows what hes doing, it wont happen, he will wear you down, and he isnt slow either. Definitely in Archers favor. You'll know a good archer because he will level missiles first to six so he can 2shot spawn. Not favorable.

Ling vs Summoner
Neither of you will cap and just be a boring stall fest. Neutral.
*** EDIT *** Short term. Neutral. However Smmoner is the ANti-Stall openenr he loves pro longed cap conflicts as he can feed, ling plays right into the strategy, and summoner can even send his spawn/or allies spawn somewhere else to assist. Generally not favorable.

Ling vs Dm
Just Run. Not Favorable.

Ling vs Mech
Hes ranged and has a nuke (ranged), and has armor. However you attack faster, but he can micro. More or less in his favor but its usually down to the wire. Also slight hp gap in his favor. Slightly not favorable to Favorable.

Ling vs Rine
Ranged. Stim. Good DPS. Minetstall/Cap. Can stop spawn clashes making you tank spawn. Hes got you beat. Not favorable.

Hes not a good capper, but a pretty good staller, overall though. Ling is pretty much beaten by more than half the cast or just neutral all around in the cap race. However hes very good at stalling the bottom, when on bottom team, near impossible to stop. OVerall, not a great capper, decent/good staller.

Discuss. Flame. Talk.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 1 2010, 12:08 am by DoLLe.

Most of this info here almost leans into theorycraft for me. Almost all matchups, you're assuming that ling will charge head on into the enemy. Ling has the fastest speed early game, and can play the stall game with ease. He can kill the enemy spawn much quicker than the enemy can kill ling's and while the enemy is occupied, ling can take about50-70 dmg off the enemy, not including the spawn dmg. I'll only agree with ling having difficulty with lm,dm, and med. Sometimes rine, bat volt, can be a bit of a problems. Other match ups i see no problem with. Taking advantage of lings speed in those 4 min will probably be the most work you have to do all game. I have no problem with your statements, i just find them on the side of "worst case scenario" for ling.

Generally i dont believe in cap tactics, i just let it play out, which works most of the time for me. If i go against lm i KNOW hes gonna l1 when im close. Use my gas as a counter for his gas.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 1 2010, 12:19 am by LoTu)S.

What is this whole mutant-loses-to-bat thing people keep claiming?

Mutant v bat build is something like:
1. Mins, upgrade attack twice.
Go get one spawn wave, close-ish to fbats base so fbat doesn't try to follow and splash feed. +5 mins from that wave, grab another attack upgrade.

2 goes to mins, upgrade attack again. Make sure you stall fbat a few times, don't let him splash on his spawn. Depending on current hp, you want to go tank fbat. If you get to about 80hp and he's still around 200, run back to heal, then get back to stall + beat out bat.

Medic. Ling beats out medic any day. If medic summons a spirit, kill it, instant level. You can use spawn to cut medic's HP way down, then come in from the back to kill. Medic shouldn't have a dog's show.

LM. It's relatively easy to gauge LM mana, and avoid l1 and storm. Storm at best does 50 damage against a moving ling.

DM is winnable but hard.

Summy feeds lings and is killable. Ling all the way.

It's very rarely that I see a mech win against mutant early game.

Its the most probable outcome of two high-tiered equal skilled players are going to have. Of course their are random factors for sure. Though you indirectly supported my point, ling has no general great opening match-ups in the cap race. I posted this in response to Jack saying hes a great capper. Only way you are going to take a free 50-70 dmg without retaliation is if you are asleep at the wheel. Though i have to say to you, ling will never outstall war 1v1, his high natural armor L1 and high autoattack, will guarantee you wont outstall him. If he decides to play ultradefensive and does a 2/2 build (2 attack and 2armor) you wont out last him HP gap and Armor gap, plus the Auto damage is too big.

No offense but you arent serious are you? Mutant beating out medic?
Lets start off with that one, this is simple:

Ling vs Medic.
You chase spirit, shes shooting you, repeatedly, she will micro the spirit, so she gets free shots. Forget about it if she has two spirits. To top it off she outstalls you because she can heal! To seal the deal even more she can go power route, totally destroying you. AND, she can tank because she can heal. At the very least she will heal and STALL with spirits! You cannot heal, You arent ranged, shes dealing 37 a shot opening game while you are doing minimal damage to 120 micro'd HP healing spirit. Do the math, it wont take long till you are in critical. Sounds like you are playing absolute scrubs if you are coming to this conclusion. Also you play right into the medic chasing the healing spirit, thats an absolute SCRUB move to do in the opening stages, she wants you to do that.

DM vs Ling
Not even entertaining this one. Save up two maels Hide orb, go in when ready, you die gg. Starting HP 600 for you Her 1000.

Bat vs Ling

Lets even if you think you can tank him, right? Assume you can early game (when really you cant afford to because you are a staller not capper), even then he will just L1 for safety and go about his business. Also since you upgrading all attack, he'll just outrun you (Stim) and stall with L1 while you are tanking spawn with 0armor. The point is hes letting the spawn do the work for him cause you said it yourself "Upgrade attack to 5" meaning 0 armor. You arent going to outstall bat, with stim hes almost as fast as you hes taking less damage. And he can go back and heal too.

If medic summons spirits, you feed off them, go heal when you've killed them and are low. If medic doesn't, you tank medic after a couple of waves of spawn. Feeding off spirits is epic feed early game, and if you can get back in time you've got a whole nother level to work with.

Bat needs more testing on my part, but from what I've seen ling can beat him.