One word: Jealousy

It has a lot to do with the fact that 70% of the US lives in Eastern and Central time zones, and the mountaineers don't play vidya.
Also note that canada and (lol) brazil are mainly in the Eastern time zone. Canada in particular has Quebec and Montreal in the east, which are by far the two largest provinces.

Stun detection works like this (I presume)
if
Player 1 casts spell
then
create 1 defiler for player 4, 5, 6.

Then player 4, 5, 6 run the trigger:
if
Defiler in location
then
Stun
Remove defiler

If player 6 left, he still gets a defiler, since player 1 made it, but it won't be removed, since player 6 is no longer there.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 12 2010, 9:05 am by rockz.

A couple pages back Faz commented on the changelog. Faz, I have to say, a lot of your comments on the changes are exactly the type of thing I found to be odd about M8T, apposed to what you feel.

Volt's L4 is quite easy to kill. He's amazing on the first round if you get L2 and start buffing mana. But, I fail to see how amazing his L4 is personally.

Why is storm raised up to 60 but mana is capped at 450? The mana DM is(near) invincible with perm L2 and LM with(near) perm L1+L2/L3. The mana cap should be 300 to prevent infinite mana, and storm lowered to 50 to balance the difference.

Assault's L1 needs drain back. This skill doesn't do anything useful currently. His L4 does kind of blow. Nuke would still be a better choice here. It's Op against a team that has no detection, which is why you would want to pick some detection to balance out your team.

The Spec Ops L3 in combination with his relatively high health and damage is in theory Op(maybe). Lowering mine's health bellow 3 is unnecessary. Lowering the mana cap should prevent the Spec Ops from lane farming so easily with L4(I've yet to find any decent players who even use this).

Archer is okay(maybe) from what I saw.

Warrior's L2 and L3 both last about 0.75/1.25 seconds too long.

The Med from what I experienced is still great in 3s, but L1 needs to move and restore a(1) Medic instead of creating an army of them. It's unnecessary to have that many. Med's L3 is still bad. Restoration is too useful against the DM. Medics shouldn't have this researched.

A combination of all 3(Mael, Ensnare, L3) is usually(always) worthless compared with spamming L2/L4+Ensnare/Mael. The DM's L3 needs a shorter fuse, and shouldn't be visually disorienting. DM shouldn't have Ensnare. Damage should be 29+7. Up Brood's damage to +2, lower spawn rate during L4, and remove Broodlings after the curse ends. Increase FeedB/Mael to 87 and spawn with 78/79 energy(3 Maels is a little much). Feed is fine without being able to burst kill SciVs or Medics.

Revert Reavers to 110+10. With mana maxed at 300 this shouldn't be as spammable as it is, and yet not completely useless against someone with +5 HP ups. Change L4 to switch the LM with a decoy Temp(500 health) with Hallu and maxed energy for a little resistance to curses, stuns etc. Restore 120 gas LM>Temp and drain 120 when Temp killed. Cast again to return to normal form.

DM, Mut, Spec Ops, Summoner and Archer are all good at dealing with Sin at night. Peeps need to stop complaining about this.

As for not taking Sum out, that matter can be remedied slightly similar to mine capping. No Muncher captures(port to Sum?). However, I'm positive this would require some rebalancing.

Theoretically the Spec Ops, Warrior and Archer should be the best choices in the game at present. Assault is probably the worst choice. I haven't really tested Archer's or Spec Ops L3.

PS. I'm a westerner who plays East because it's more competitive. That's the way it is man. Don't feel bad.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 12 2010, 12:19 pm by Multivision-Doors.

I know there aren't that many but they are all on after midnight in my case. The group I play with plays m8t ill name some if you want, maybe you played with them.

I don't find it unbalancing at all. I main DM, and I find it just a little harder to kill Medic than the other heros, I just remember to never mael medic unless I have enough energy to feedback the medics she will spawn, and never have both ensnare + mael affecting at the same time.
NO NO NO. L3 is extremely useful against heros that can kill large amounts of units easily, with manu attack; such as Mutants l3, Assault can sit and wait with dweb or spawn a dropship, and Spec Ops just murders DM with l3. Not to mention Mech can transform and may get away. Generally maelstrom + L4 = stupid, because your broods will be "stunned" along with the enemy hero.
It already has a shorter fuse, and the curse's name is "Curse of Agony." It's supposed to be agonizing.
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
Let's all make an already awesome hero even more powerful than she is now.
NO U
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
If the spawn rate was lowered, more heros would be able to escape it easily. I've seen Warrior, Spec Ops, Assault, Mech, and Mutant already escape it by running away. And honestly it doesn't feed very much at all.
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.
It's supposed to.
I fail to see how Archer can deal with Assassin at night.

I was thinking of MT's Archer my bad.

There's plenty of good reason to remove Ensnare from the DM, most of which it being a really cheap and OP alternative to L3. It could easily have the energy cost go up to 150. I've seen enough players get completely rocked just because of Ensnare. Using L3 on a Mut is pointless. It's not even worth arguing. Using it on a Mech is a great idea in the event he's running right into your curse range, or you Ensnare, in which case you're going to use L4 to block him, and even if you wanted to use L3, you'd kill him quicker just meleeing him down. And L3 would hardly be useful in that situation, as you're going to use L2 to prevent him from escaping and from killing you. L3 is barely useful the way it's set currently.

Having 3x Mael is pointlessly OP, and having the Med able to dispel Mael and Ensnare is just even more pointless micromanagement when the real issue is that the DM has too many snares.

Having +7 damage on the DM isn't a bad idea considering she's the slowest melee unit in the game. And at the start it's not even recognizably different with 29+7, which is where the most important part of DM exp is from.

Having L4 spawn slower means the DM can get in melee range faster, and +2 damage means players can't just buff up their armor and ignore L4 altogether. And in the case that players can actually escape, there's no reason to give the DM a button click victory anyway.

Okay folks. I know there's a good chance this has been fixed, or I'm going crazy. However I would still like to know what's going on. In this replay, I was DM, did a whole game, got to rines, then SUDDENLY got nearly 400 mins. You'll note my only cheating is storming some rines near the end, and no I didn't use maphack much to red's dismay.

I've never had this happen before, and I'm at a loss. My exp just jumped from 300 to 700 in no time flat, and I got like 5 levels out of it. Since this happend right at the rine spawn, I think there was some exp/money trigger that suddenly fired and gave both me and green extra cash.

Game was on 3.4, but I don't think CAFG touched those triggers. If the bug is still in there, it's definitely serious. I had no problem getting 18 defense or building 3 cybernetics cores and I only used 1 civ on money, and I only got 4 sims.

It's a pretty meh replay, and clit says he got drophacked (making it 2v2 pretty quick after we killed blue).

Attachments:

West has players that could beat any east player.

Hmmm... I have never seen you on west either but at least your on my side

M-D:
The reason the Dm has so many snares is because she is the slowest thing on the planet. There is absolutely no point in buffing dmg even she can't ever catch her prey. The dm needs her snare at the begining the most to help her catch her opponents who can attack her and run away before she can retaliate.

L4 is as much of a trapping tool as it is a killer. +2 dmg means nothing if you can't trap them. +2 dmg also means nothing if they kill every unit you spawn before the next spawns. +1 is fine and while armor is cheaper than attack the dm usually has plenty of dmg anyhow and if not thats what her allies are there to help.

rockz 3.4 wasn't created by moose and moose has specifically said this is for discusion of m8 only thus belongs int the original thread. Also problems in there haven't occured in m8 so I doubt this was due to one of the original triggers. 3.4 was also based off a older version as well.

edit: btw for all those of you whining about west vs east its not that hard to change realms and just find a game on east. at the most it is 2-3 time difference.

I always end up playing against a DM as an archer then i get raped cause of the epic hard counter .
i played Olimar's DM as a warrior and he raped me, although he did mael himself during the battle for the bottom base but it kinda kept me from stalling so they got it.

Did you just say realm?

It was the one and ONLY time i played you.

You're basically correct. However, when player leaves, there is a trigger that detects P12 gateways, and centers the location in which the defilers are created to the flag at the left. Since Moose has reconsolidated a lot of the triggers, there is a chance that he has removed or screwed up this method.
There should also be a trigger that removes all the defilers on the side.

@Multi-Doors

The thing that does require consideration is the Mana cap.
While it's true that 450 MAY be large, it isn't that much of an advantage considering that Mana upgrades have to be tied to Spell upgrades, and ALSO have no supplemental way to make it better (HP and Upgrades are tied together, but upgrades can be supplemented by assiming)... So, unless all upgrade civs are pooled to mana/spells.. you won't get that effect.
So everything still requires consideration..

@rockz ...
Never've seen that glitch b4.... There're only 3-4 triggers that converts kills to cash... and those are strictly with killscore.. so I donno why that'd happen.

UU, what are you talking about? Spells and Ups are tied together too, hell even if only by chainstuns+auto attacks and thereby supplemented by sims. It's not a matter of HP vs Mana man. Mana regen by the time you hit 450 lets you regen your entire pool in half a minute. There's no downtime for spell casting. Some classes have so little purpose for upping HP and so much purpose through spamming spells that HP ups go to waste. Not including the fact that mana and spells almost always increase exp gain, which thereby reduces the time needed to start upping HP after attaining high level spells and mana.

The problem isn't mana vs hp. It's that players can up mana to a point where it's no longer finite. It becomes less about chaining spells and more about spell up time. I've been in so many games with LMs and DMs where there's never a break in the spell casting for the player to even become vulnerable.

It's funny cause people complain how TS has so little spells.

I agree that some heroes would just go strictly mana and no HP/strength, which creates an unwanted linearity in certain heroes. You do have a good point, and I'll consider it.

It's NEVER happened to me in ANY game, and UU hasn't seen it ever. I wouldn't be surprised if it was in m8 as well, which is why I posted in the only one which is being updated.

LM is a glass cannon, pure and simple. LM wouldn't be able to survive lategame if he couldn't constantly cast spells. His l1 has a serious disadvantage as it is not chainable, it has a cooldown where the LM is slowed even more than normal, the LM can't cast any spells while in the form or the cooldown, and the LM is already ridiculously slow and has no range (on l1/attack). Mutant's l4 owns LM, since it's a guaranteed 2 hits at 250 damage or so. Mech can range LM with any form with ease, and run away taking half damage from scarabs. Warrior certainly has a problem with LM, but again, l4 makes him for the most part invincible. By this time, his attack is also ridiculous. Firebat after the l1 nerf makes things more difficult. I don't think I'd want to go after a fully upped LM with bat. It wasn't so bad when you had the firebomb of m7, but you don't want to get close to him without some backup. Any other ranged unit can easily snipe LM. That leaves Assassin (night+l4=gg), DM (so slow its easy to curse), Volt (l2 pretty much stops most attacks, but it's not a good matchup unless you can double l3), and Summ (you have to feed him a lot to kill him, but by that time you have lots of damage/mana to replenish lost lings).

DM essentially has infinite ally, but is so slow that you can pretty easily counter it. Marine, for example, is the anti DM once he gets l3, what with irradiate and dodge. Mutant + volt can easily own her with l4. Summ is completely unaffected by all but her l1. Mech is so fast it's pretty easy to dodge any curse. Medic has infinite disable, all you have to do is take the first l2, disable, let partner come in and kill. Bat is possibly the worst. Stun, then l4, stun, stun, stun = instant death. DM definitely has less weaknesses, but they are more serious (especially rine/summ/bat). Mech is only OP if you allow force attack (which I don't).

It's all about knowing how to counter your opponent.

Rockz, you need to play LM more often. I don't think many players would really agree with what your saying here.

LM is the fastest unit in the game yo

Nobody realizes this, but LM actually moves as fast as a reaver's scarabs do.