Yet no reasonable discussion has taken place on the issue.

Then speak. Or let me know you're thinking.

When the issue comes to a definitive, thorough conclusion, I will stop trying. I think it entirely reasonable to say "I am the law" is not a thorough conclusion.

No, it wouldn't. Who has brought this to the attention of Moose before now? No one that I know of. As of now it's simply a minor mistake that doesn't matter all that much, there's no hypocrisy present. People make mistakes.


"Rules lawyer" can not be reasonably attributed to me right now. There is a distinct and undeniable breach of not only the SEN rules, but United States law occurring, as evinced by the citation of the case in which Blizzard won against MDY Industries, whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Furthermore, I am not in trouble of any sort. I'm not using a loophole in the rules to try and worm out of an administrative decision, moderation, ect. Also, while I may not be a global moderator such as yourself, I am a part of the SEN staff, which leads me to believe my input is at least somewhat valued here, and my citation of the SEN rules will not be seen merely as an attempt to "have things my way", but as a point worthy of consideration in the functioning of the site. I have not threatened to use this breach against SEN in any way, or otherwise cause detriment to the site, nor do I plan to. I have a peaceful and friendly relation with Mini Moose 2707, and I hope, but certainly to a lesser extent, Isolated Purity. I am not being argumentative, threatening, or otherwise difficult; except as necessary to voice my view of the issue. If I find that there can be no reasonable discussion on the issue, than I will certainly have no problems packing my internet-bags and finding a different website with a more permissive administration.
I also expect my membership to be mutually beneficial, but if I judge that it is not in my best interest to maintain my membership, I am certainly capable of terminating it. I cite this part of the Terms of Service merely to emphasize why we come to SEN. I like SEN. However, I do expect that I get something out of SEN, and in this case, it is the acknowledgement and discussion of the issue at hand.

In forsight, I predict that one might say something like "Vrael, you expressed earlier that you would have abused any power you had in the op SEN channel, and as an extension of the site, that would be doing harm, and so you're contradicting yourself when you say: I have not threatened to use this breach against SEN in any way, or otherwise cause detriment to the site, nor do I plan to." To this, I say look at what actually happened. I expressed my conflict with the op SEN plans and removed myself from doing it harm, despite my disagreement with it. Secondly, there are screenshots floating around of me banning CAFG from the channel at one time, abusing the power given to me. To this, I have only to say that I didn't realize some people took battle.net so seriously.



And he is also quite capable of speaking for himself. He can even voice his thoughts eloquently at times, and as such I think we should allow him that liberty.

I think it only fair that I give my quarrel a more distinct shape at this point:

I have problems with the gravity of the situation. Starcraft is a game. Spammers and flamers are annoying, but no one on SEN owns any part of battle.net. Blizzard has of course made it quite clear that it owns everything we use to play the game. Battle.net, all the channels, the maps we make, ect. It's fun to use their stuff. I like to play Starcraft and make maps and stuff, and I get annoyed by spammers and flamers and whatnot too, but I keep in mind the fact that I'm playing a game for my entertainment. I generally don't care when someone on battle.net calls me a fag, or I lose a 1v1 to an ass who spends the next 5-10 minutes whispering me about how big a loser I am cause I lost, it doesn't affect my life. Likewise, after I finish writing this, I will finish writing out my math homework, and go to bed, no worse for the time spent on it. I am, however, very annoyed that I had to be this grave to be taken seriously. That you especially, Excalibur, aren't, or at least appear to not be giving any thought to the other side of the issue, so much that I have to write out this big long thing so you can't just ignore it with a few sentences. I am annoyed that you folks all (not necessarily excalibur this time) felt the need to run off and fix a channel because ][cy came whining to Moose about me banning him, and annoyed that ][cy went squealing like a little piggy to Moose in the first place. Everything here is being taken out of scope. It's one thing if you all had gotten together in the channel and said "we're gonna ban flamers and spamers, because they're annoying and detrimental to us." It is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, however, that you are taking this as a serious issue that needed to be dealt with, that you swoop in with bots and set up an application to have bots in the channel and are talking about logs and stuff. Completely out of scope, and that's something I really don't like. It's making the trivial into something important, which makes everyone's life just that little bit more difficult. To come in and say "we're going to set up our own rules and regulations in this part of the starcraft game" is to ascribe to a trivial game the importance required usually of something like a government, instead of just dealing with the game. Sure, if this was some Korean venue where people were getting paid, I'd be completely fine with all this, but no one's making any money here. See, a reasonable person would realize that in the Starcraft environment, the only law is what Blizzard sets in terms of coding, and "might makes right." If you are mighty, you win the game, if you are weak, you lose, DEAL WITH IT. If you have a bot in a channel, you can ban. If you get banned, you get sent to the void for half a minute, DEAL WITH IT. Of course, if ][cy only squealed to Moose for the lulz, then I don't have a problem with the squealing anymore, but the fact remains that a lot of people out there in the world don't know how to distinguish between a game and reality.

Earlier, Moose asked me why it would be acceptable to have standards and rules on a site like SEN, but not in a starcraft channel. The reason is the same reason that I write something huge here, that would be wasted on battle.net. SEN (the website) is a small community with access to actual standards and definite inter-person relations. The analogy I would make is between a jungle and a city (presumably deep within africa somewhere). Starcraft is like the jungle, it has its own hierarchy of trash-talking and melee skill and UMS skill, ect. SEN (the website) is supposed to be civilized, like a city. Now, one might say, "What if a group of men were to venture from the city into the jungle? Should they suddenly break off all the civilization they have and rip each others throats out?" To which the answer is certainly No. All that changes, is that when they venture out into the jungle is that they realize they are in the jungle. If one of them gets slashed in the face by a lion, he shouldn't stand there and try to sue the lion. It would be proper and right if he were in the city, to sue his fellow for the assult, but in the jungle, things are different. To everyone, I think the analogy appears intuitive and obvious. However, the reality itself does not. On starcraft, a lion striking you is nothing more than someone flaming you or beating you in a game, or banning you from a channel. To this, the appropriate response is to simply deal with it, like our poor lion slashed guy would, not to go crying to someone over the loser who beat you or take it personally. Imagine if, instead of pulling out his knife and defending himself, our lion slashed fellow tried to talk to the lion. We would call him an imbecile for ignoring the obvious fact that he is in the middle of a jungle and just got attacked by a lion. Who do we call an imbecile for taking things personally or whining on battle.net about bans? No one. We argue over it like it means something. I am annoyed by the fact that no one realizes that IT IS STARCRAFT.


I suppose people will call me a loser and whatnot for writing this too, for taking this seriously despite saying that the seriousness is the issue, and to that I have to say, if one person reads this and agrees with me, and recognizes the issue I have put forth in words, and it becomes distinct whereas before to them it was nothing but a hazy feeling, this little essay of mine has accomplished its purpose. If not one person reads it and agrees, then it has still served as a useful excersize to me, excersizing that capacity which I have to change ideas into words, something which is certainly of value to a citizen of any society.

I wonder how many people are going to "tl;dr" this one. Chances are whoever posts next will do it, but hey, I could be wrong.

You can make your city and jungle comparison all day, and I'm not saying it isn't correct, but I disagree that Op SEN has to be part of that jungle. Op SEN belongs to the people holding the ops, and as such, we can do whatever we like with it. If we want to impose higher standards in that channel than those on Bnet in general, then we can do that. We have that power.

Saying 'ITS STARCRAFT' means nothing to me. It can be Starcraft, we can be SEN, and Op SEN can be whatever we wish it to be. If I want to run a bot there, if I want to enforce rules there, if I want to manage bot applications, I can do all that. It is only as trivial as you make it, and Starcraft has never been trivial to me.

I didn't care what you had to say before, and I don't care now. You've convinced me of nothing, and told me nothing new, which is why I didn't bother before, and I'm pissed that I had to bother now.

Patience. Moose will read it tomorrow.