He put his opinions in, and I posted about how retarded his views are if he doesn't view both sides. It annoys me when someone comes in with a hate list.

You say imaginary, excuse me but God is not imaginary.
What's wrong with believing in something good? Every Religion preaches that you should be a good human being, what's wrong in believing that?



If you want al queda taking over our country that's your problem.


Liberals are not of help, Liberals are nothing but a Communist Party, so please do not get me started.


Yes and our solider's fought for that right. just like they fought for all the right's of American Citizens. Just like I have the right to create w/e List I want.


That's funny, you say they can have a opinion, But I cannot have an opinion of thier opinions? who's bias now. That's cool they want to lead a happy life, I got nothing against that, I just hate it when Vegeterians try to talk you out of eating meat, and I should have stated that clearly ealier sorry for the mishap.


You keep talking about all this opinion and how they can think we are stupid, and yet when I say I hate something you call me bias, your just a confusing kid. You do not talk down to our father's who made the Bill Of Rights. do you get it? Lol


You honestly think billions of year's on this planet and us humans are hurting the planet? We are not helping it, but mother nature will shake us off like flea's if she wanted to. and If you really want to pay all your money for ' global warming ' go for it. Not one word does it say in anywhere that the icecapes are going to stay frozen forever.

Eve is the one who gave Adam the apple.

I feel women Can not lead nothing. They are to emotional. and have way to many problems. and she is a liberal so I hate her.


Hhhmm They are not just taking the farm lands wtf year are you living in? they are living here for free. Witch means they get free hospital care. While my family has to pay for our own. They work cheap, because they do not got to get their tax's, nor thier insurance and etc etc.

And while I just filled out a Selective Service, I begin to think, I get to go to war but the people who get to come here for nothing do not?

Then we might just aswell Legalize everything.


I still hate the UN

[/quote]

Dude the police are stupid, I could tell you so many stories. You cannot change my mind on that, there's no way. I been through so much that you probably would be like woah Lol.



Call me whatever Because that's all you can do. It's just words. You try to defend Opinion but when someone else has an Opinion you shut it down. I have my beliefs as a Citizen, and as a Human Being

Why don't we talk on msn then. anyone can type. =] And Lets talk about this situation. Because I do not hate you. Your still a human like me with your opinions. and thats where I think we differ

You get mad at people for stating an opinion and start hating them. I do not hate you and I will not call you a name.

Kaokenshin@hotmail.com

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 18 2007, 6:21 am by SteamBoy.

Because I don't believe in a true right or wrong, I don't usually like to argue in topics such as these. But this guy's views are so uninformed I can't resist.

You love America, but hate the people? America IS the people!

TEH HATES:

Yes, Atheists cause all problems. Never mind the Buddhists, Muslim, Jewish, etc., people who would rather not have the schools force Christianity into their childrens' throats. There can only be one religion in America damnit! Oh, wait... we have the right to practice whatever religion we please.

Democrats didn't let us fight the war? We are already over there shooting and blowing up brown people. Saddam is toast. It sounds like the Democrats didn't stop anything. Do you mean you hate their opposition to the war? The fact that we attacked the wrong country for the wrong reason and the Democrats pointed that out is disturbing to you?

You hate Liberals? The people who founded this country believed that the individual should have rights. That is at the heart of Liberalism.

Some people that say that are indeed ignorant. But then, some people who say they love it are also ignorant.

It's nice to see that you can actually separate the individuals from the belief systems. But aren't most vegetarians liberals?

Don't you find your willingness to hate an ENTIRE COUNTRY because of a couple of outspoken individuals from that nation to be a tad... I dunno... extreme?

Personally, I don't think we're in any extreme danger just yet, but I do believe that human industry DOES have a negative effect on the global climate. Keep in mind, most conservative policies are constructed in a way that allows for big businesses to do whatever they want to keep their profits up. So they would naturally oppose anything that would threaten the business's abilities to maximize profits. (such as spending money to reduce emissions) I know I am generalizing a bit here, but I'm asking you to consider the source of the people who have taught you what you believe. I don't think for one instant that all of the ideas you've stated were conclusions you arrived at all by yourself. (Except for the weird police one)

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say about Hilary. My official response: LOL WUT

Nevermind the fact that this country was founded by people who raided and stole land from the people who were already here.

They do have an impact on the economy, although I don't believe it's all negative.

I like the idea of the UN. All of the nations agreeing to not let any one of them get mad with power is a good idea, if you ask me. Too bad they didn't stop the U.S. from doing whatever the hell it wanted.

They enforce the laws of this country that you hold so dear. This sounds hypocritical to moi. Or are you mad at them because they stopped you from doing whatever you wanted?

TEH LOVES:

Michael Savage, the LIBERAL CANADIAN politician? Or the radio guy? I don't know enough about him personally, but based on the opening paragraphs of his (radio guy's) wikipedia article, I can see why you like him.

Nearly all of the money making music is carefully constructed in such a way to make it sell fast. Thus, most of it is not true art. Do you love the art or admire the business model?

Aye, we do indeed have some nice terrain here in the ol' USA.

So you love the fact that someone who you disagree with on 100% of all issues has the right to speak their mind and not face any legal consequences for doing so? That's awfully big of you. Although... your hate column suggests that you don't actually feel that way. (except for the freedoms it guarantees for YOU)

I'm especially fond of FDR's New Deal and JFK. Aren't you?

Are you talking about the USA? Cuz Bush sure as hell ain't letting us do what we want. Or do you mean Iraq? If you call assraping the former political structure and installing a wannabe Democracy in its place a great thing, then you can think that.

I love it when people force their views on me and then insist that they're just "helping". It really warms my heart.

You people are way too sensitive over some of these things...

That list is not beliefs it's simply me, and who I am, wether you believe in it or not Personally does not inflict on me what so ever.

I live life day by day, I work for my life to live.

I love Michael Savage the Radio personality, because he makes more sence then a Liberal can to me. and even my Teacher Said, Liberalism has changed over these years.

And how we raided this land. We needed to get away from the Queen, Better then USA then AFrica where we would be infected by Aids.

I do not hate this country what so ever. I did say I hate the people. I should have not said that, I was out of line there. Infact that line was suppose to be totatly separted and not joined with my Hate list and like list.

Now let's get to some quote's see if I can straigten things up a bit hehe.


So far I have not said Chrisianity. Nor have I said any religion. I said Athiest's.
I Believe there is a God. A high form of power then us. Who made us.

And our forefather's founded this land upon God.

-- Next Quote.


Democrat's didnt stop anything nor did they try to do anything. They kept talking about a plan to get us out and yet they didnt even admit to that.

Democrat's did hold us back in fighting. our Troops can't even do anything without being questioned It's like we are in WAR people. let our troops do thier job, this is what they are trained to do.


Next Quote : )

Indeed I do. That is not the heart of Liberalism, Liberals Want a communist Goverenment.

Next Quote..


You lost me thier >; P

Next Quote ~yawns~


I did not want it to come out like that, but it did. those are not belief's, those are simply my own thought's that are not even broken down to a point, they are just out there.

And What do you mean I was separating people from a Belief system? Lol I was just ranting on what I hate and what I like. How hard is that to understand.

Next Quote


I do not hate an ENTIRE COUNTRY because of my hate list, I still like Hilary as a person, and I do not like her beliefs, I know 2 Illegal Aliens and they are cool guys, They are learning English and such, But alls Im saying is that I wish that they would pay for some of the stuff that us US. Citizens have to pay for.

Next Quote


I just do not want a Women President. I feel in my heart that they are not capable in leading a Country. Women are different from men. Proven Fact. They got more Emotions and other stuff going on in them. I got nothing Against women, I love women Lol and I believe they are vary Smart. Smarter then me :' (. We will see if Hilary Get's elected or not. so until then my opinion stands on her.

Next Quote lalala


You Stated that you do not know him. If you listend to him or even try to argue about anything you want with him. I bet he would win. He has Degree's in History. He live's in San Fransico. He's a good man, with a vary strong opinion. No one can talk him down. As far as I hurd and seen.

Next Quote - ...


What do you mean I feel that way, give some examples and explain yourself. Lol

Next Quote


Did you know when we went to War when JFK was in office, he changed his view to a republican.
I believe in Liberals if it wasnt for North Korea, Al queda, and Terrorists. But until then. Im Republican ' Independant ' Because I agree with some stuff on democrats : D

Next Quote


I do not care for bush. Lol He should have did something about our borders.

Next quote


I forced Views on you? or Bush did? im confused. You do not explain yourself verywell. like I did in the beggining of this argument haha.

anyways! have fun in starcraft brah! <3

Love always:
Steamboy

and I still do not hate you LOl friends? : (

Learn how to use the quote function or don't post.

He just needs to split his post in half. SteamBoy, I want to hear more about your views on atheism, and why you think
'everything' benefits from your god in it. Which social ills do atheists cause, and how do you explain the lower crime rates in more the more secular European countries? Also, which god do you believe in and why? Did you read it in a book? Did someone tell you? Was the source credible, and not just spreading an infectious meme?

If you think religion is the reason people do good things, you are sadly mistaken. Religion is a bad reason do do good things (the reasons religion offers are limited to reward and punishment), when in fact there are far better natural(as opposed to supernatural) reasons for doing good deeds.

Also, let it be known that meat is murder. Tasty yummy succulent tender juicy murder.

Allow me to clarify:

An atheist is somebody that lacks a belief in god. They are not required to hold a belief that god does not exist, nor do they follow any dogma. Most atheists are also agnostic. I am A strong atheist, to the degree my strong agnosticism will allow. I have never heard a theistic claim that even sounded credible. I my default position regarding claims(supernatural or not) is skepticism, but I am perfectly aware that I may have been(and probably have been) mistaken, deceived or benighted in the process that led to my current conclusions. If the time comes when my atheism becomes untenable, I will not cling to it, because i do not have faith in it, rather I will hold the universal model that most closely describes the phenomena I call reality. I have seen nothing, and doubt I will ever see anything that cannot be explained naturally.

Our founding fathers were mostly Deists, something like Spinoza or Einstein in their views, and theist or not, they were DEFINITELY secularist. Even the Baptists!

Yea, secularlist in the sense that they wanted government out of religious affairs, not the other way around (keeping religion out of government is something we perceive indirectly from their original intent, which I'm not saying is wrong). Those guys were chased out of their home countries because they were protestant and/or noncatholic and the English government forbade anyone from practicing any religion other than catholicism.


Yea atheists aren't bad people. I can understand the frustration they feel when people always try to force them to convert to w/e religion and why they might hold such grudges against religion. But when they start forming hate groups on campus, writing slanders and/or negative things about religion and hanging these posters everywhere, tearing up religious documents in public, making websites that contain nothing but hate/disdain/anger/belittlement towards religion, going around telling people to "open their eyes", sabotaging and/or putting graffiti on church grounds, going into churches and yelling "FFFFUUUUCCCKKK!", or deride the image of religion with whatever means possible using their bitter hatred towards religion as justification, that's where I call it going a little too far.

In my opinion, atheists are ignorant.

Of what?

Well considering that most atheists I've met (both in real life and online) are close-minded and hard-headed, in my opinion, that makes them ignorant.

Nice try at evading the question, I will rephrase it to be exactly as specific as the first time:

What are atheists ignoring?

What knowledge or awareness do we lack?

You DO understand the true meaning of ignorant, don't you?

By your retort.... I don't think so.

But to answer your question (even though I already did for most people), most atheists I've come across have most, or some of these traits:

Atheists try to force their beliefs onto everyone by claiming that anyone who isn't an atheist, is wrong (which is also a logical fallacy) no matter what just because of different views. That's being close-minded

Ignoring plausibility and possibility. Also, close-mindedness

Occams Razor (or however its spelt), which is fallaible. If you use the logic that Cheeze, DrunkenWrestler, and other 'skeptics' (more like mindless-sheep) use.


The point I'm trying to get across (and now I understand why you're so close-minded all the time) is that most atheists are close-minded in general. If things aren't the way they want them to be, or they're not explainable to their petite minds, they claim its wrong and falliable.


Occams Razor is one of the most falliable ideas created by skeptics. It goes against their own logic and thoughts.



Or at least against DrunkenWrestler and his followers

There was absolutely nothing that should lead you to believe he doesn't know what ignorant means, you're just indirectly attacking his intelligence now, as if it is in the least bit valid.


Taking examples of a few atheists you know and automatically generalizing those traits on all atheists in general is more faillable than anything else you are attempting to call fallible. They ignore plausibility and possibility? You provide nothing to support that evidence, and cannot.


How are atheists close-minded? Is it because they tend not to believe in things that yield no evidence? It seems to me that most atheists I know are for more open to the possibility of other beliefs than of those who are religious. I also think it's fairly obvious that people of religion are far greater known for forcing their beliefs on others, but apparently (and I don't know how), you don't see that.


Petite minds? This entire statement is just a big fallacy.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 24 2007, 12:23 am by Dapperdan.

The definition of ignorant is most simply and commonly, "not knowing", with no connotation of will to learn. If you use a different one, please provide it.
I never said everyone else is wrong, Just that I am not convinced any of them are right(even a little bit!).
Conscious existence has the following structures(according to my universal model):

Goals and directives (not rational. Based on instinct, In my case modified, supplemented, and in some cases repressed by introspection with respect to my universal model)

Universal model (expectations of the way the world works, along with predictions of the consequences of various action. Initially instinctual, but now mine is almost entirely rational/scientific.)

Consciousness (use of the universal model to achieve the goals and directives.)

The way religion works is by preventing introspection, and supplanting your will with that of the religion. The only way that would happen now that my instinctual UM model is replaced, is if the religious model predicted reality better than my own(see the science flowchart for reference).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 24 2007, 3:47 pm by AntiSleep. Reason: typo

Lets breakdown Each of your questions.


Why are they trying to change everything.
Example:

Taking "Religion" out of School, Trying to take "In God We Trust" Out of the Dollar. Why are they taking away Christmas a time for Joy and Family Reuions.

Vary rude people, You seem to not be rude witch is rare to where I live. I do not travel the world so I do not know witch Athiests you are hanging with or appreciate.

Example: My mother hit a Car going about 2 mph. She said " Thank God everyone is ok " The two kid's did a strokeoff, " Like they are stroking thier Dick " and said " We do not believe in God ".


I do not know, Can you? You can probably Theorize, but no facts can be made. There for, that Question is not of importance.


I believe in God (Jesus, Holy Spirit). You can call me a Christian but Im not a Church going Man.

I believe in God because of my Parents of course. My mom goes to Church every Sunday.

Why do I believe in God? The Bible, It's History, and the fact that I know my Family will be in a better place. Wether or not there is a God, I think that it makes me a Better person to Believe that there is a God. Not saying that it makes a Athiest a bad person for not believing in God, It's just what believing in God has done for me as many other people who believe in God, wether getting over Drug Addiction, Abuse, Rape, Alcohol, etc.

To know that there is a God is to know that you'll be fine. Yes if you believe there is a God, you know that there is a Hell. I pray I go to Heaven, because I do not want to go to hell and burn over and over.

And yes the source is vary credible, considering our Country was founded on the belief of God. And sence my mother is a vary good and smart women makes it credible.


Your english is horrible, " Religion is a bad reason do do good things ", You do not know english becuase you made a mistake.

- Sorry I had to do that, everyone does it to me. Nothing against you, I still understood it, and it did not keep me from replying to the question.

The way I look at it, If you believe in God you think before you do something bad. Such as Stealing, Murdering , Commiting Suicide.

Like of course as a Human being who makes mistakes, I have thought of Suicide many times but I believe in God so I have held myself against that. So for me to know that there is a God, is to not do bad to others or to self. To give and not Recieve.



---------------

Main reason why I hate Athiest's beliefs is because they are taking out God, if they believe there is No God why do they care that other's Believe in God, and why are they trying to take it out of everything.

None of the atheists I know(and I know about 30) want to take away times of joy for families, but we do not see a reason to claim belief in something supernatural, just so we can use it as an excuse to see family. Families can get together for nonreligious holidays too. Also, we do not care if you want to believe in a god, just so long as you don't use our tax money to promote it, or try to push it on our children.Do you really think your god had a hand in the accident? If we all relied on our superstitions alone to keep us alive, I doubt there would be many of us left.It is however a fact that the most fundamentalist areas of this country are the areas with the highest STD rates, and the highest rates of children born out of wedlock. It is also a fact that atheists account for a disproportionately low ratio of the united states prison population.How do you rule out confirmation bias?I should not have expected this to be understood. I am trying to say that want of reward and fear of punishment are two very bad reasons to do good deeds. Good deeds should be done for their own sake, not to get into heaven, nor to avoid hell. This said, even if you ignore post-mortem reward and punishment, none of those actions is in your self interest, even stealing and murdering might help you achieve short term goals, the risk is outweighs any long term benefit. The best motivation for moral behavior is the trust and cooperation of your community.Do you have to appeal to another authority to feel good about giving? I know from experience that the answer is no.As I said earlier, we do not want our tax money to be used to promote religious ideas, nor do we want our children indoctrinated. We have no problem with people seeking religion only for themselves, but this is not the scope of religion. Religion(and dogma in general, the credulity of authority by appeal to authority is the underlying mechanism) has been at the root of countless wars and conflicts, especially various flavors of Christianity, Islam, and personality cults of dictators. All of these regimes indoctrinate the young by appeals to authority, in order to maintain power.

Oh please, don't give me that crap. Those people try to force their beliefs on others because of their character; such people would try to to force their beliefs on others is MANY DIFFERENT FIELDS OF LIFE. Culture, beliefs, government systems, ect... You're trying to blame atheism here, when you actually should blame people.

Umm, that was a just a typo, it doesn't speak to anything about his fluency in english. People do it to you because you blatantly have crappy english over and over again, typically people won't bitch over a single typo.


Right, so just because 2 immature kids have done this it proves atheists in general are assholes... do you realize how ridiculous that it is? If you realize that this one example really meant nothing, which you may tell me, then there was no point in posting it anyways.


How can you say this without directly implying that people who do not believe in god do not think before they do things? And of course, that would be ridiculous because there is no evidence to prove atheists commit more 'bad' actions than non atheists.