Neither does "laame".

I didn't say it was bad. I just stated, IMO, that i found it boring.

the lurkers L1 in your new version breaks and doesnt cast if the lurker is killed while l1 is on going. i had a replay of it but i seem to have lost the replay. and the dmg on goliath seems to be lacking a bit. ally had 15 ups on air and 20 on ground and still didnt kill the ling who had 1000 hp. ground dmg was great but air dmg was pitiful ling could just stay near until tanks died.

how do you have different air/ground ups?
why does air matter vs ling?
Oh right, 1.5.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 16 2009, 10:03 am by Zachary Taylor.

Presumably, he means Terran Vehicle Weapons and Terran Ship Weapons, which matters for the Wraiths.

Hey Killer_sss

Thanks for the bug report.. It might've been due to me trying to make it so that when you die, your L1/L3 gets removed, as they'd teleport to where your observer was (where you'd died)..

and for the wraiths, they do 30+4 damage.. so your friend was doing 90 damage x 8 x 3 = 2160 damage... excluding the tanks in the end... If there were a load of spawns next to him at the time, the wraiths would've targeted them instead... Also, the wraiths are quite spread out when they are created and ordered to patrol, so I may look into that and make them less spread out...
As for increasing damage.... I could add more wraiths into the mix... right now it is 8x3 wraiths, which do 720 dmg w/o ups.. If i make it 10x3.. it'd do 900 dmg w/o ups... but again, the tanks do 70+7 (or is it? i may've changed it to 60+6.. i forgot ) So, in the current build, it does 720 + (70*8) = 1280 damage... almost instantly
Not to mention Mech's attacking spell was never meant to be ground breaking, as it's role is to be a Druid and transform and stuff...

I am also wondering whether the current Assault L1 "Sensor Grenade" is too OP... Yami n ][cy told me to decrease the number of wraiths spawned... (to 2 or 3)..
And Also, how the new spawn mechanic, where 1 spawn leader (which is 2 levels beyond the current spawn level), is affecting the game.. particularly melee units like the Dark Mage... and whether I should add sm effects to spawns for DM's curses.
I also need to think about the Medic. Should I keep it as it is, with the full heal, or use my new idea of healing in increments of 20% (so if your ally's healing level is between 20-40%, they'll heal to 40%).. and then implement a better spell 3...

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated =).. thnx

I, for one, like the fact that the volt's l2 would be escapable. In the current version, he's too overpowered. l1 paralyzes and drains 10 mana, l2 sucks in and can kill easily, l3 paralyzes for longer than l1 and drains mana, and l4 basically makes him invince... Basically at any tier of spells, he owns everyone else. it might even be a good idea to take out his l2 altogether and replace it with something like the goons the lm has, then giving lm a possibly better l3? I also find the lurk's l4 to be pretty dumb. No offense, but it really doesnt work in the objective of the game at all. Can't kill temple(or can it?) and can't take out players, so you basically can't win with his spells. Psion is also definitely not overpowered. He has an incredibly hard time killing spawn in beginning, and has no good hero killing spells. It would be a good idea to make his l3 suck in players too, at least a little or something. I also would suggest putting in hypertriggering, basically put in a lot of wait 0 seconds, to make the trigger speed faster, since sometimes spells lag a little too much and dont have the same effect that they could have. Phantom's l3 also is a little glitchy. It doesn't always catch them, and they get out of it waaaaay too easily. I also have a problem sometimes with dm's curse. It hits you, even if you run away after it starts. I though that was supposed to be the point of the delay in the beginning, so they couldn't be captured quite as easily.

Give the spawn leader reduced hp, enough to be just a little over regular.

Or is that too pro-Medic?

Medic's L4 definetley needs a nerf. Whoever has a medic on their team has an almost sure chance of winning. Like you mentioned, it would be better if spell 4 gives increasements of 20% while giving the medic 100%. Maybe you could use my idea of having all the medics turn into hydras of p7/8 as a spell. This gives a medic a shot to sieging the opponent's base.

Volt isn't op. First of all, if you cant take on volt, don't go near it. Majority of the units can attack volt while paralized like hydra and goli. Sure Power Overwhelming is strong, but it's a level 4 spell- its supposed to be strong. It is much like ling's spell 4 with his ultra. Spell 3 is easy to avoid with it's animation at the beginning. It also has shields that take in 100% on concussive dmg and explosive. It has both weaknesses and stregnths. It is just good against someunits and bad against others. Everyone has a way to counter Volt. Medic has Disable. Mutant has Lurker Bombs. Assault can use Distruption Web. Hydra can manual attack. The Volt is certainly not overpowered.

Urine isnt dumb...he knows what hypertriggers are... He is using them right now. Why else would he use dc's? What made u think he didnt use them?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 17 2009, 12:37 am by xYoshix.

also, could you possibly put up all the changes you've made, such as from 1.4m?

Read "some" posts before posting

All the ones with "M" in the back is not done by me, it is by moose, and it is at the topic Temple Siege v1 ... (yes it has 85 pages lolol)...
Also, some things that you said is only for the Old v1.5... right now glitches that were brought to attention last time has been all fixed...
Lurker has been revamped, it's L1 and L2 is switched... and it's new L3 is like Burrow Drive but also spawns hydras.... and it's current L4 is a combination of it's old L3 and L4.. it shakes the earth and destroys buildings and spawns. Of course, it doesn't affect everyone now, but it's AoE is as large as the Void.

So here's the changelist!
CHANGES SO FAR
Green = changes to stay
Yellow = changes to debate
Underlined = undecided

- Increased Cost of Mana and Time of Academy and Supply Depot (for Engineer)
- Paralyzing spells will destroy Mounted Guns
- Fixed unclickable tanks/bunker during day.
- Lurker's L2 (Burrow Drive) do not have the spell effects anymore (makes it stealthier during night)
- Lurker's L3 (Tremble Earth) does not affect heroes anywhere. It now has an AoE exactly the same as the Void from Psion (which is quite big.. 16x16?? i forgot)
- Lurker's L1 (SandTrap) Stuns for 4.5 seconds. However, it is unable to stunlock unless traps are placed properly... Meaning that stunned foes will not be stunned again from the same spell for about 5.5 seconds (leaving 1 second to run away).
- Assault can now spawn 3 ghosts, but canNOT cloak.
- Nuke costs 80gas. Same build time.
- Fixed Mutant's Lurkers/Marine that respawns as vulture, and etc. etc. (I think)
- Switch Lurker's L1 and L2. Make Sandtrap spawn 1 or 2 infested terrans AND stun for 5 secs.
- Lurker's New L3, Ground Fissure, Acts the same as Burrow Drive, but will spawn hydras (2 per second) for 8 seconds.
- Lurker's New L4, Shatter Earth, is a combination of it's old L3, tremble earth, and L4, Rock Tomb, so it shakes the earth and destroys buildings. The shaking will go for 5 seconds, but will affect only people in the area (it is a big area, same size as the void). Closer foes will be stunned for 8 secs, and spawns will all be destroyed.
- Lurker's L1 can be combo'ed with its L2 AND L3 (in fact, for L3, no new observer is created, you just keep going .. it's awesome.. i wonder if anyone figured that out yet...)
- Lurker's L1, and L3 can only be used when burrowed.
- Psion's L2, Negative Field, now only lasts for 8 seconds, with an 8 second cooldown.
- Psion's L3, Vortex, now sucks enemy heroes into it, same as Archon's L2 (per 3 DC's)


- Decreased Engineer HP to 4500hp
- Decreased Assault HP to 4000... It's damage is now 11+3 (Major subject of change!)
- Followed Moose's idea and switched L1 with L2. (as Disruption web + marine = rape)
- L1 is changed to "Sensor Grenade". If the scourge is over any foes for one second, it will detonate. The fuse is the same (meaning it's longer than M4)...
- L1's effect is also changed. It will create 4 to 2 wraiths (30+4 damage) that attacks once. It will still kill all ground spawns, but will only stun for 2 seconds.
- Assault's L2, tear gas, now removes 2 mana per trigger.
- Mech's L2 and L4 (wraiths) is now 30+4 damage.
- Mech's L4 spawns 8 to 10 x 3 wraiths (instead of 12 x 3 wraiths)
- Engineer's armored refinery now have 70 armor... now costs 40 ores
- Most importantly, Every 6 spawns will have 1 spawn leader, which is +2 levels above them (lol so many "spawns"). So for example, every 6 broodlings, there'd be 1 marine. If u up the spawn number by 1 (+3) .. no extra marine.. if u up it again (now you got +6 from original), you'll spawn 2 marine. Each Higher level spawn will be the 2 levels above it. Zealot spawns will have dragoon, while hydra spawns will have goliaths. This may have some drastic effects which needs to be tested w/ all heroes.



IDEAS THAT MAY BE IMPLEMENTED
All of these are up for debate..

- Increase explosion size of Assault's L3 Carpet Bomber. (it's really hard to stun people currently o.O)
- Increase Volt's Shields a bit, as it's L2 sucks heroes in per 3 DC's rather than every trigger now.
- Decrease Volt's L3 mana drain.... Make it drain less mana.
- Make Medic's L4 not heal allies to full HP. Instead, Maybe in increments of 20%. If the person's health level is between 20-40, they heal to 40%. if 40-60, 60%, and etc...
- A better L3 for medic.. Maybe Mana channel (sm1 suggested this), where allies will get faster mana for a period of time... I can even make it so that enemy heroes that are close by lose mana.
- Maybe change cloak to cost 200? It'd give DM, Medic, and Phantom more of an edge.
- Implement new terrain

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Mar 18 2009, 3:47 am by UnholyUrine.

upload the latest version w/ mutant fixes and that changelog? pwease

For Phantom's L2, either make it last longer OR don't spawn it cloaked.

I am still uneasy about the new rine. It has paralizing spells. I'm fine with that. The part I don't like is the +3 dmg... I know that the hp has decreased, but its only a 400 hp difference. It might not even get hit by melee heroes with its spell 3. Also, dropship lasts about 3 seconds per bomb and can be dropped 4 times. Being attacked by rine for 12 seconds straight with +3 is a lot. If the rine has 10 ups, it would be doing 41 dmg a hit. It attacks about twice a second, so it would be doing...about 1000 dmg per spell. Isn't that alot for a spell 3? It could easily kill heroes like mutant, medic and engineer. Assault can also murder lm and archer with tear gas. It was already overpowered as it was, but with +3, it would become even more overpowered. I think +2 is fitted perfectly with the new assault.
...
...
NEW TERRAIN PLOX!

I think psion invincibility spell(Lv2) should be moved to medic's Lv3 but make it only last 1-1.5 seconds and smaller AOE.
Replace psion Lv2 spell with an AOE that takes away a % of enemies' hp for every few seconds they're within the aoe. (i don't make maps so i don't know if this is possible or not)

For phantom's Lv4 how about create 2 hallucinations with the Lv4 so it costs 120 instead of 25+120.
This way it could at least do some damage with Lv4 without having to cast Lv1.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 17 2009, 3:30 am by bastard-tino.

well couple different things.
- First of bugs to report
= found a biggie with lurk died while using L3 2 hydras stayed spawned and were invincible due to spell and i was warped out to the obs with full health and i had only had a couple upgrades.
= not sure what this is by i have noticed the computer players occasionally killing my stun mines. this may be intentional but im just not sure and it didn't always happen so idk y that was either even when it was day time it didn't always occur.

- balancing and reporting
= ling l3 seems to be a hit. it casts a warning but when the lurks actually cast they appear where ling is. Very Nice.
= lurks l3 seems to be a bit wierd i will continue the testing on it and see how its dmg goes. i was playing a ling so that may have an effect.
edit*
= checked out the l1 for assult and omg it does way 2 much dmg at the very begin of game and then once things get going its too weak. the wraiths just dont do the trick very well im thinking their dmg is reduced somehow vs some stuff. i mean i added 10 ups and im getting maybe 100 dmg to cannon.

-ideas on balancing
= for lurk i thought of the observer it still dies pretty easily but i think maybe you could do say 60-80 shield and maybe 2-3 hp with huge armor. the reason for this able to fight off spawns if upped properly. but not necessairly 1 hitable by every charcater for the stun effect. eventually it would be nice for some or most of the characters to be able to 1 hit the observer.
= medic i saw and idea earlier about combing the l1 with the l4 for medic and using each medic as a percent heal not necessairly making it over powered but yet if enough mana making it pretty strong.
= lurk level 2 seems to be cool but if its going to be killable by spawns it might be nice to have it able to attack spawns. if that was unintentional then it can prolly stay as is and just correct the killing.
= also idk where this would be applicable if at all but a spell that increased mana to 10 or 15 if you hit zero along with other effects might be useful.

attached is the lurker bug may have been others in game i just dont recall.

all for now still testing

Attachments:

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 17 2009, 6:49 am by killer_sss.

Replacing Medic's spell 3 with Psion's spell 2 might be a good idea considering the Medic is Supporting Hero.

The new spell idea for psion won't work at all. Say an assault has 200 hp and psion uses the spell you mentioned that sets the hp to 10%. It would actually heal the rine to 400 hp. What if theres a hp warrior that has 3.6k hp? If psion uses that spell, the warrior would only have 600 hp. Thats a 3k difference. It is extremely unfair since it rules out the reason to go Hp and it is only a spell 2.

Phantom's spell 4 is already strong. It shouldnt spawn hallus for spell four. It would only make the spell stronger. It would do better with casting spell 1 and then spell 4.

unless urine decides to do some MASS EUD

I didn't mean to set it to a fixed %. I meant to decrease a % over a certain amount of time. Lets say a hero with 500/4000hp comes within the AOE and it takes away 1% of the unit's max hp every 3 seconds. So after 3 seconds the unit would be at 460/4000hp, since 1% of 4000 is 40. After 6 seconds it would be at 420/4000hp and so on.

He knows.

You can't do that.