Well, not even remotely close to how you remember it.

A&O RPG.

You made a trailer for it once, I'm still waiting for the map.

One year later- it's time to start.

I'll make it a browser game.

Fuck that, I want Starcraft A&O RPG. The trailer was so epic, that you're obligated to make it. You don't have a choice.

This. Browser games are for prepub middle schoolers, SC RPGs are for nostalgic goats- the real men.

Make me an open source Starcraft engine and I might consider it.

Otherwise:

1. Blizzard don't give no shat 'bout bnet and SC1 no mo'.
   
2. Browser games don't suck anymore.
   
3. Fuck everything on this list.
   
4. Lat tricks have been eroding away what little sanity I have left.
   
5. Everyone with a browser gets to play what I make. As opposed to a few rustic bnetters who only play a handful of predictable maps in the end anyway.
   

Open source worked for Doom. It'll work for Starcraft.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 29 2010, 8:29 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Make me A&O RPG you fucking cocktease. I've been waiting for like 8 years for some release.

Consider:

1. So? They never gave no shat bout bnet and sc1.
2. Yes they do.
3. Uhh, we've always had to deal with that.
4. Granted.
5. No one with a browser will actually play what you make, as opposed to a few rustic bnetters who will play your new predictable map and spread it to a few noobs who will also play it.

SCMDraft worked for Doom. It'll work for Starcraft.


Edit: how the fuck do you make tabs like that on SEN?

Edit:

When lord, when!? WHEN ARE WE GETTING OUR NEEDS FILLED BY TUX!?

Soon.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 9 2011, 6:05 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

You have a worse Soon than any company in the world.

Also: With what we know about mapping now, all of your problems preventing A&O back in the day, are gone.

Except 3drealms, maybe.


But seriously, things are moving along now.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 11 2011, 1:52 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Since I've decided there's a reasonable chance I might do Sin later this year, I've been wondering again how I should approach it. I think the best approach in the general sense would be to build it in self-contained, iterative, fully-playable layers. These might include:

1. Basic players and basic Sin. No world map or significant player stats to worry about.
   
2. Expand upon Sin's layers to make the challenge more involving. This will include some procedurally-generated puzzle-esque elements. Even some Shadow of the Colossus-type stuff. Should be interesting.
   
3. Introduce player stats. Available tech, supplies, any virtual counters (mana, hp, whatever), etc. No "leveling up" bullshit, though. Might keep this layer fairly concise. Bum is still sore from AG, after all.
   
4. Introduce basic "world". Tech and supplies have to come from somewhere, after all. Part of the game will be you trying to protect NPC establishments around the map to ensure reliable access to supplies.
   
5. Introduce worldly dynamics. Optional layer. NPC establishments might want to be non-passive against Sin's onslaught, and also might have some functional dependencies and other dynamics that players can affect to make them work better.
   
6. Room for player drama. Always nice to have drama.

So yeah, that's the gist of what I have in mind. The specifics, on the other hand...

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Jan 19 2011, 5:16 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

Anything like what I am interpreting from these words + Tux = Awesome

So, some specifics:

1. Sin is a puzzle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a calamity. That's actually a good explanation, too. Left to its own devices, the roaming creature becomes a juggernaut force of destruction. That's why you don't leave it to its own devices (for too long, anyhow). Players must balance calibrating their abilities, playing nanny to NPCs, and "researching" (which I'll explain in a bit) with periodically assaulting Sin. Dangerous as this will be, it's necessary to harass the Sin monster to prevent it from picking up "destructive momentum"; a state where it becomes harder to attack and more damaging to the NPC environment the players depend on to function (more on this later).
   
2. But that's only upkeep. The eventual goal is of course to destroy the damn beast. However, this will definitely not be as straightforward as simply assaulting it directly. The best a general assault can do is keep it somewhat calm... for a while. Half of the game will be simply figuring out how to actually hurt it. There are two options for this: Research and Exploration:
   1. "Research" is a function of NPCs that essentially observe Sin and discern what makes him tick. It's different from NPCs being used for player upkeep (more on this) because it requires NPCs being undisturbed for lengthy periods of time. That means both from Sin and from the players themselves. Which means they won't be directly helpful for the players. Which means more risk and cost. Not to mention it's unreliable at best: NPCs can "research" either very quickly, very slowly, or even not at all. However, should players invest in allowing them to do this, they can potentially make the Sin destruction process a lot easier.
      
   2. The mutually-exclusive alternative, of course, is to just poke and prod at the beast until something happens. Straightforward, but there's risk involved here too: The more damage Sin takes, the more dangerous he becomes in general. The implicit goal, therefore, is to destroy Sin with as little damage as possible.
      
3. As for damage: Sin is essentially a large contraption of many "parts" that can each be individually damaged. The game randomizes which assembly of (adjacent?) parts produce which effects, so don't think you can memorize between games. Mastering these patterns will be your only hope. A few examples of the effects of certain parts can include:
   1. On destruction: "Calming" Sin. Nearly any part likely does this, but there may be dangerous exceptions that in fact could do the opposite.
      
   2. On destruction: Spawning dangerous creeps. Don't try to hold your ground against these.
      
   3. On destruction: Movement pattern change. Destroying these only serves strategic purposes (such as redirecting Sin away from NPC clusters). You'll want to discover which do this ASAP, but you won't get an unlimited number of them.
      
   4. On destruction: Make adjacent parts harder to destroy.
      
   5. Over time: Generate creeps. You'll want to kill these quickly, if it's safe to do so.
      
   6. Over time: Reduce "calmness". Same story.
      
   7. Over time: Heal adjacent parts. The higher your DPS, the less of a priority these might be.
      
   8. Over time: Generating "blight" (zerg structures + creep) on the terrain. "Blight" becomes cost ineffective to clear away as it adds up, and enough of it can change the topology of the map completely (e.g. via. sunken or spore colonies). Not to mention some forms of it can produce creeps over time. Killing these Sin parts may be a good investment in the long term, but they don't usually lend to Sin's actual "damage".
      
   9. On destruction: "Unlock" Sin's layers.
      
4. Speaking of layers, Sin has 5 of them (4 main ones, though):
   1. Outer shell: Like protoss shields, this generates automatically over time. The stronger this gets, the more dangerous Sin becomes. Keeping this down by destroying parts is critical.
      
   2. Outer surface: You main supply of destroyable parts will be here.
      
   3. Inner surface: Needs to be "unlocked", as above.
      
   4. Nucleus: Also needs to be unlocked in turn. Damaging this brings you to...
      
   5. ???: This is the part where you say goodbye to your friends and loved ones and delve into the very bowels of the beast itself. But will you ever come out again? Or should you?
      

So yeah, it seems complex, but it's actually mostly planned out, so it shouldn't be a huge problem to implement.


Keep in mind this does not guarantee I'll actually make this map, though. That all depends on certain... other factors.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Feb 1 2011, 1:43 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

Moar specifics:

1. There are two primary constraints for each player: They can only control 1 "playing" unit at a time, and they can only have 1 "special ability" at a time. Within those parameters, basically anything is possible. I'll talk about special abilities later.
   
2. Within the above constraints, note that players have the option to change their "playing" unit. Basically this just means they can walk up to an NPC unit and swap into it. Pretty basic, for now.
   
3. Additionally, players have 2 resources to worry about: Morph energy (minerals), and General energy (gas).
   1. Buildings, special ability changes and upgrades, and most gameplay-altering elements cost generally cost Morph energy. MAYBE also upgrades, if I add those...
      
   2. Special abilities, swaps, and general stuff cost General energy. Might call it something different, later.
      
   3. Both generate over time on their own, but Morph energy generates a lot slower, thus forcing players to make decisions with how they'll use it.
      
4. Also, swappable NPC units come in a many flavors:
   1. Summoners. Probes. These units follow their own rules. More on them later.
      
   2. Workers. Originate from Command Centers. I BET U KANT GESS WUT THES R
      
   3. Civilians. These are actually template units for becoming other types. Left as NPCs, they like to wander the map and get killed. If they bump into certain civilized structures they automatically convert themselves into the respective NPC that structure represents. Civilians spawn gradually from Supply Depots (where else?!).
      
   4. Soldier. Marines. Barracks, via. civilian bump.
      
   5. Bikers. Vultures. Plain factory, via. civilian bump.
      
   6. Tanks. Tanks. Factory + Machine Shop, via. civilian.
      
   7. Suited Walker. Goliaths ( ). Factory + Machine Shop + nearby Armory, via. civilian.
      
   8. etc.
      
5. I'll likely add some mechanism for propagating structures automatically (to alleviate player tedium), but players can micro individual workers to customize structures around the map. Buildings cost varying amounts of Morph energy and possibly time, though, so some decision needs to be made.
   
6. Terran buildings generally have no special properties (besides converting nearby NPC civilians to their respective unit types), save for the Supply Depot and Command Center. Supply Depots generate civilians over time. Command Centers repel Sin... as long as it hasn't built up its outer shell, that is. Because of this, you'll likely start to see NPC buildings naturally gathered near Command Centers as the game rolls on and Sin takes its toll on the environment.
   
7. Now, about player-controlled NPCs:
   1. They do not heal; if you want fresh health, swap out to a new one.
      
   2. Players have extra upgrades from the start, so they'll always take and give more damage than their NPC counterparts.
      
   3. If you die with your current unit, I may either:
      1. Make it permadeath. Sucks to be you.
         
      2. Spawn a revive marker for other players to bring you back (perhaps only if they're in Summoner form, too). If they want to.
         
      3. Put the player in some kind of "ghost" form to capture a new NPC, but with a penalty that they lose whatever special ability they've acquired.
         
      4. Randomize between these options at the game start.
         
   4. The one special-case NPC, however, is the Summoner. They work as follows:
      1. Players can only swap into a summoner once during the whole game. Summoners are randomly pre-placed at the start, and do not regenerate.
         
      2. While swapped into a summoner, players do not regenerate Morph energy! Important to consider.
         
      3. Summoners' various abilities involve building protoss structures, obviously. I've yet to plan these out exactly, but I do know some buildings will involve spawning non-swappable allied NPC units, (maybe) casting spells, or simply creating buildings that perform special functions, such as "Researching" Sin as described previously, or generating consumable ability upgrades for players.
         
      4. Special function buildings may also have special requirements, such as not functioning well if they're too close to other NPC structures, or else if they're too far away.
         

Keep in mind also that this is just the early concept draft. Evolution is guaranteed.
Funny thing is, it's almost more fun just writing about the map than actually making it.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 3 2011, 12:30 am by Tuxedo-Templar.

I was actually hoping for Space Dogs
Sounded like a pretty comprehensive space adventure that would elevate SC to the original premise of grand starship escapades the galaxy over.

Anyways Sin sounds like it's gonna be kick-ass too. Can't wait!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 8 2011, 11:09 am by YKcid.

In a nutshell: Space Dogs promises a lot of work and uncertain return. That lowers its priority.

Anyway, continuing on with Sin...

1. Since the existing plan for equipable units will constitute every primary "special ability" function I could be bothered with, I'm just going to make actual special abilities constitute an entirely new layer of gameplay altogether. Though I might possibly even omit this layer completely, however. I'll decide later.
   
2. To justify this, I'd need to up the ante in some way(s):
   1. Abilities might be consumed with use (even as little as a single use).
      
   2. Abilities might have a high chance of failure... or even backfire! "Upgrades" simply only function to reduce that chance, therefore.
      
   3. Alternatively (or additionally), invoking an ability can require certain player actions to improve the chances of its success and possibly the quality of its effect. Might be nice for reducing the element of chance involved.
      
   4. Mana might only be able to regenerate from NPC deaths. Think about that for a second.
      
3. Generally, special abilities are about making large changes to either Sin, the environment, or yourself.
   
4. Within these parameters, here's a few of my ideas (more possible):
   1. Rally: Calls a large number of NPCs to your current location. Useful for attacking Sin or defending outposts. Might be a gameplay staple.
      
   2. 'Curse': Kills lesser Sin spawns and NPCs in an area of the map. Persists for the entire game's duration. Using rally to deliberately sacrifice NPCs in this way for additional mana can be a strategy. Also useful for "burning" away enemy creeps in areas you've basically given up on being habitable.
      
   3. 'Bless': Defines an area of the map as 'blessed' whereby anything that 'grows' there increases its production significantly. This includes both NPCs and creeps. Creeps and Sin will be attracted to these areas, so being sure they are defensible is important.
      
   4. Endow: Turns a set of NPCs invincible (or at least very strong). Invincible NPCs can randomly turn into powerful Sin spawns at any time, however. Players who possess an endowed NPC that turns into a Sin spawn will perish. Bit of a gamble.
      
   5. 'Smite': The only 'general use' special ability, this is essentially a gunner system letting you hit targets at a range for high damage while it's in effect. The tradeoff with this mode is you have very low HP, so you must avoid enemy units completely and rely only on your range to survive. Good for directly assaulting Sin if you can afford the risk. Sin spawns will be especially cantankerous against you in this mode, however.
      
   6. Otherworld: Essentially polarizes your alignments: Sin is now allied, NPCs are now unallied. Might be useful for assaulting Sin for a time, but naturally it will have a cost: If you stay in this state for too long, you'll be unable to turn back (whether it's random or explicit or not will be a later decision). In this case, if Sin dies, you lose. Furthermore, it might be necessary to use this ability to defeat the last stage of Sin, even.
      

So yeah, that's the last of my initial plan. I've left a few juicy bits out of the picture on purpose, though.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Feb 20 2011, 6:24 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

One thing I'd like to know about is Sin itself. Is it going to be one unit moving around the map, destroying things? Will it be a collection of buildings that move really slowly around the map? I don't see how you're planning on getting that to work...
Other than that though, every bit about this map sounds epic