1. Default 2 seconds per trigger execution...
   
2. ...and the hyper triggers needed to fix that shit...
   
3. ...and the player sacrificed to run those hyper triggers, because of...
   
4. ...the wait blocking effect...
   
5. ...that blocks every other wait for the player...
   
6. ...for EACH wait in turn...
   
7. ...a fact that's lead to some of the most nightmarish mapping bugs in the history of forever.
   
8. Current player.
   
9. Needing current player to not have to repeat triggers a bazillion times.
   
10. Repeating triggers a bazillion times anyway because of conditions/actions that don't allow current player.
    
11. Repeating triggers a bazillion times because of conditions/actions that don't allow anything BUT current player.
    
12. Kill scores. 'nuff said.
    
13. Staredit.
    
14. Isometric terrain. Looks pretty at first, but it becomes such a damn headache the more you use it.
    
15. Square terrain. Because isometric won't let you give up on it without a fight. Have fun blending subtiles individually, fuckwads!
    
16. ...that is, when they actually DO blend...
    
17. ...because hunting through the entire bloody tileset palette for that one bloody tile to make it blend is so much fun, right guys?
    
18. Critters. Can't sit still, can't group select, slow as ass, and almost completely useless otherwise.
    
19. WAV files. Doubling your map size to get 3 seconds of a custom sound.
    
20. ...unless you butcher the quality down near to nothing.
    
21. ...but never mind the fact that they use up strings...
    
22. ...and that you can't pause them midway.
    
23. Oh but fortunately we have MPQ sounds, right? That is, if you first know how to actually use them...
    
24. .scm vs .scx
    
25. Game crashes. Good for lulzy map endings and anti-hacking measures, bad when you don't know what causes them.
    
26. ...such as something silly, like placing a unit slightly out of the map boundaries...
    
27. ...or clicking on a neutral player's flag? That was one too, right?
    
28. And don't forget disabled units. God, do we still even use those anymore? I just can't remember...
    
29. Map Revealers.
    
30. Power-of-2 map sizes.
    
31. Redundant/unused hero units. Not even the courtesy of a palette swap or something.
    
32. Not having redundant hero units for the units that you need them most, because...
    
33. ...you're stuck with only the unit set Blizzard gives you.
    
34. 'Special' units that are only placeable in the editor...
    
35. ...and otherwise sometimes also don't respond to certain trigger actions.
    
36. Powerups that don't do anything powerupy. Where's the fun in that?!
    
37. Resource powerups with permanent max armor. Not to confuse you or anything.
    
38. Doodad units. wtf
    
39. Doodad states vs non-doodad units. Also wtf
    
40. Unplaceable errors. Haunts me in my sleep.
    
41. Limited selection of colored text options.
    
42. Colors that think they're better than everyone else. You know what I mean.
    
43. Briefing colors vs. in-game colors.
    
44. The string/character limit...
    
45. ...and having to recycle strings to avoid it.
    
46. Switch names that use it up. wtf
    
47. Location names that also use it up. wtf²
    
48. The location limit...
    
49. ...forcing me to also recycle locations...
    
50. Not having a concept of a 'current' location like there is a current player...
    
51. ...forcing me to make a bazillion more repetitive triggers for each and every fucking player that needs their own location...
    
52. ...thanks again to those dastardly 'current player'-only trigger conditions/actions...
    
53. ...such as Center view. God I hate that one.
    
54. Especially in single player where it's ALSO A GOD DAMNED WAIT BLOCKER! A wait blocker that drags your whole damn screen across the map at an agonizingly slow pace.
    
55. Single player doing shit like that in the first place. Fuck single player.
    
56. Not having any concept of data variables, forcing me to...
    
57. ...cannibalize unit death counters to get something close to it...
    
58. ...because switches just suck...
    
59. ...except for randomization. But fuck them anyway for being the only intended way to accomplish that.
    
60. Death counter arithmetic. Reinventing basic math was never so much fun! Thanks to...
    
61. ...binary countoffs. Yuck!
    
62. Grid systems. All of them.
    
63. Needing grid systems.
    
64. Implementing grid systems.
    
65. Not having grid systems when you need them because one damn game limit or another decides u no cna has them.
    
66. Unless you want to kiss goodbye to most of your available locations, spare time, and sanity to properly make and use a location grid. And duplicate a few hundred thousand ten thousand triggers while you're at it.
    
67. vHP.
    
68. Needing vHP.
    
69. Implementing vHP.
    
70. Not having vHP when you need it. Also because the game hates u.
    
71. The pathfinding AI.
    
72. Nooks and crannies error. This is just sad.
    
73. Liftoff buildings ignoring trigger orders while being ordered to land.
    
74. Not being able to order buildings to lift/land.
    
75. Player 12 Dark Swarms and Disruption Webs.
    
76. Computer units that do their own shit without you telling them to do it.
    
77. Not having computer units do their own shit when you actually might want them to.
    
78. AI scripts. Because we really need two disparate scripting systems running at once under the same engine, amirite?
    
79. ...except that you don't actually get to edit AI scripts without actually modding the game code itself. So much for that.
    
80. Junkyard dog AI. Loves map edges and semi-random attacking. Minor pet peeve, really.
    
81. 'At most' condition modifier vs dropships and bunkers. You'll know what I'm talking about if you've encountered this.
    
82. That one dumb bug discovered by Wormer where new units sometimes aren't detected in a location until a Center location action occurs. I forget what the feck that was all about, though.
    
83. Siege mode -> Tank mode being so slow. Urgh.
    
84. Liftoff -> Landing being so slow. Urgh.
    
85. Creep terrain tiles that don't actually act like creep. Except they sorta seem like they do. But they really don't.
    
86. Pylon auras. Otherwise cannons might actually be useful.
    
87. Ally vs Ally victory.
    
88. The hangar system. The bane of Starcraft's unit limit.
    
89. Goliath/Tank turrets. Demon possessed I tells u!
    
90. Walling.
    
91. The unit limit.
    
92. The doodad limit. Which is similar, but not the same as...
    
93. ...the sprite limit. Because then things would be too easy. But let's not forget...
    
94. ...the bullet/'dynamic' sprite limit. Clearly some Blizzard programmer must have had a fear of dynamic memory. Which might be because of...
    
95. ...Starcraft's sorry ass minimum system specs. The likely (but indirect) cause of all aforementioned miseries, now that I think about it.
    
96. 256 color palette, and all the fun that's put us through. This ain't 1993 anymore.
    
97. 640x480 screen resolution. This ain't 1989 anymore.
    
98. No window mode. This ain't... ah fuck it.
    
99. The fact that this list is already as long as it is, and not yet even close to finished.
    
100. The fact that I'm making this list IN FUCKING 2010... over 12 years after the game was released!
     

Moar plz.

Post has been edited 8 time(s), last time on Jul 12 2010, 11:44 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

No standard data or variable system, no supported multiplication or division of death counts (used as the standard numerical variable that shouldn't have to be the standard numerical variable).

Its depressing that I was agreeing with you all through the list... somehow its still rewarding and enjoyable.

And no, you don't need to tell me there's ways to avoid players needing their own locations.

But not always...

Some map makers take the liberty of putting flags in their maps that crash your game when you click on them.

101. The fact SCMDraft is written by Suicidal Insanity, and if he doesn't update it, no one does.

I think the sc2 editor fixed every one of these issues..... except for the power of 2 map sizes.

You forgot one. It's more complicated than ever.

102. Heroes don't use spells
103. Heroes start with all upgrades always (except Raynor bike)
104. You can't create burrowed zerg units unless the player has burrow researched
105. No way to dynamically control upgrades within a game
106. No 'normal' way to make cloaked units of any type, despite the fact that the engine obviously can handle it
107. No ability to use "or" for triggers, so you end up making 5 triggers to accomplish one fairly simple logic operation.
108. Pretty much everything in the SC quirks wiki page.

Sure there may be 100+ reasons sc1 mapping sux, but I love sc1 map making because the editor sux and has many drawbacks

Limited tools/capabilities forces you to think outside the box and use problem solving capabilities. Sure you may not get something very pretty but it forces your mind to be creative. With the WC3 and SC2 world/galaxy editors, all you really gotta do is point, click, type a bit, and bam you get what you want.

Agree with MA.
However, here are my gripes.
109. Not having a "not" condition modifier (ie. Player 1 has not sucked suffered exactly 5 deaths of fat blizzard cock.) Instead, I have to use at least and at most.
110. Only having 8 players
111. Not being able to give a player more upgrades via triggers.
112. Not being able to create interceptors/scarabs and give them orders.
113. Not being able to modify health/shield/energy numerically; instead, we have to deal with this percent shit.
114. Not being able to order computers to cast spells; instead I have to manipulate their AI.
115. Not being able to walk behind cliffs because isometric terrain is stupid.
116. Air units not standing still.
117. No ship/boat units. Srsly?
That's all, for now.

Who cares about terrain? It adds no depth whatsoever to a game. Using rectangular terrain is optimal and can be blended to some degree, if you're obsessed about it, with great ease.

That's never a problem. A good(i.e. too complicated for idiots to understand) map is not meant to be publicly hosted; sites like nibbits and sen therefore solve that problem.

Think of staredit as assembly in programming; you would never write complicated programs in assembly. That's why we made higher level languages like C and you could just as easily make your own language that would convert the syntax you want to triggers.

The fact of the matter remains that most of the stuff mentioned above can be easily avoided and that the editor is powerful enough to reproduce any significant gaming elements. Anything it can't do would usually add no depth whatsoever to a game.

I have a hard time believing that you, tuxedo-templar, or any other mapmaker would still annoyed by those things and constantly be reminded of the editor's limitations; we learn to bypass those limitations with great ease and with very little to no loss on the game's part.

what did I forget, the pathfinding AI?

1??. Inability to directly detect burrow, irradiate, etc., through triggers without creating contrived situations (like moving the unit under another unit).

Not so. SCI was about bypassing the game's limits, but with those limits gone, you are still subject to the limits of your own mind. How well can you write complex systems? Work with logic? Understand conceptual relationships? In SCII, there's still a box: it's you. You are the box. Try breakin' those limits. I assure you, the result will be much more difficult, much more rewarding, and much more potentially useful.

That's exactly my point... With the game's limits gone, you're only obstacle is... you. Sure someone can come up with a complex system or groundbreaking concept, but try implementing them using only certain tools.

The simple tools get in the way of true creativity.

#72, definately!
(Nooks and crannies)
Most stupid and annoying error you can get. ;o

Great ease huh? Good one.

True, but I guess the point I was trying to bring up was that if there is something you want to do but the editor does not have the capability of doing it, then you are forced to think of an alternative (ameliorated or not) using your problem solving capabilities and critical thinking skills. I'm not talking about creativity in the imaginative sense but more the problem solving sense.

Same here.

Also, Tux, there's things I totally disagree with you. For example
Current Player is great
and I love ISOM Terrain
Also scm vs scx? Wtf? What's wrong with improving the map format?!
There's more but lets move on.

I'd bring this list down to like 10 things: (roughly sorted by importance)

1. Unit AI (path finding, spell usage)
   
2. Computer player AI - never does exactly what you want him to.
   
3. Missing logic operands in triggers (OR, NOT, etc.)
   
4. Not being able to create dynamic triggers that accept variables as arguments
   
5. Game limits due to low system requirements (locations, sprites, units, etc.)
   
6. Not being able to modify kills
   
7. Trigger comments using up strings
   
8. No dynamic upgrades

OK, didn't even find 10. Those are the ones that really drove me crazy at one point or another, for everything else there's usually a pretty easy workaround.

Also, keep in mind that for the game it still is 1998 so arguments about it being outdated are invalid. I can well remember when the game was released Staredit was considered incredibly powerful. And later ScmDraft expanded that power vastly. I'm still impressed about how easy to use but powerful this editor is. This is what made the UMS scene so great. Everyone can basically make a new game out of StarCraft just through mapping.