System for parents, eh?

If they game, that build will be excellent. If they don't game, I really recommend onboard. It's cheap, can fit in µATX easy, and for the most part does everything a Non - gamer/workstation needs. Photoshop does fine, though don't expect godly performance. 3d rendering works, but can be slightly laggy at times.

Might I recommend a much lighter build, good for any HTPC?
mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128397
psu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194037
cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103724

This would cost $224.97 compared to ex's $385.94. There's a big difference in performance here when gaming, but again, if they don't game, then there's no point in a graphics card.

Here's some reviews on the CPU and the onboard graphics. A triple core processor would pretty much ensure you always have decent performance, even with your antivirus running in the background, and the 785G chipset, while not great for gaming, still can play SOME games, especially older source games. I'm fairly confident it could handle SC2 and HoN at low settings. If your parents are anything like mine, the most they need is a computer to play Kyodai Mahjongg, Diablo 2, and surf the internet/check email.

As a sidenote:
PSU: - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016
$35 for a pretty good 500W OCZ Power supply. No experience with OCZ, and they're not normally in the "top tier", but it's hard to pass by a $90 PSU cut down to $35.

Rockz, that's a joke of a computer and you know it, for one, you are lacking an operating system, which this computer came with, not to mention this wasn't a horribly lame computer, for the price it was extremely impressive, I'd say ranking up there with some of the computers I've seen posted here going for at least 400$.

Hey man dont forget you can get either a 5% or a 7% discount if your a student through hp and dell. Also i have a hardcore geek friends who stand by choosing everything thing ( chassis, motherboard, soundcard, video card... everything) through a third party site. and i have used their systems.... they are absolutely stunning.

Well, my brother would be using the computer as well, and he'll be wanting to play games so I'm going to try and get the best performance I can while staying in my parents' price range. I think my mom would be happy with a $600 price tag, and why wouldn't you want to get more bang for your buck anyway?

I'm a bit confused here to be honest, as I look at some of these numbers. Comparing the build you made for me Ex, and this: http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&a1=Category&v1=High+performance&series_name=e9200z_series&jumpid=in_R329_prodexp/hhoslp/psg/desktops/High_performance/e9200z_series

They're in the same price range pretty much, but the HP model you get 2 more cores (granted a lower clock speed), more hard drive space, DDR3 ram, the OS, and a warranty. What exactly am I missing here? I'm sure there could be some major points I'm missing due to all the fancy shmancy nonsense advertising companies like hp/dell/ect do to make it seem like you're getting the best of the best.

The processor in this HP model is worse, especially since it won't overclock nearly as well as the processor Ex recommended.
The graphics card is trash compared to Ex's recommendation.

The Hp probably wont have an option to overclock the processor. Triple channel DDR3 is at the same performance level as Dual channel DDR2. You usually get warranty for separate parts? You probably can get student discount windows 7 or at the very least use Linux

Uhh, I'm seeing tha the processor is better, based on the site you just cited, except in like 4 or 5 of the 30 categories, but that's to be expected based on the 200MHz lower clock speed. Not being able to overclock is definitely a concern though.


But boy were you right about the graphics card. Unless I'm mistaken, my laptop's 8800GTS is more powerful than the G210, but the 8800 is an older model, isn't it? Or is this one of those cases of a company having an excess of extra parts that didn't make the cut and slapping a new name on it?

Wow. I really fell n00b to the marketing of names there with that graphics card. G210 BLOWS.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 30 2009, 2:39 am by Vrael.

The 210 is a low end card while the 8800 is a high end card. The numbers tell the placement in the series not the placement in all their video cards ever made.

I just wanted to note that with that board you are also changing to DDR3 instead of DDR2 compared to the previously mentioned build. With current prices, that won't really change the price of the ram, though.

I don't know why he linked you that. This is what you should be looking at. I'll also point out that there IS no AMD Phenom x4 810. There is a Phenom II x4 810, and HP made a mistake on that site. Do you really want to buy from a company that makes errors like that? It's also really hard to compare quad cores to dual cores, since in multithreaded tasks, the quad core is always going to win. You really have to go by price. The propus ($100) is probably about 20% better than the e6300 ($80) due to the extra 2 cores being utilized. Disable 2 of those cores and it's a different story.

As for comparing those 2 computers:
CPU - HP (20%)
RAM - HP (barely)
HDD - tie
GFX - ex (50%+)
Case - ex
mobo - ex (plus OC/easy replacement)
PSU - ex (by a lot)
Everything else - tie or slight advantage towards ex, due to quality.


Not being able to overclock shouldn't be much of a concern, unless your brother wants to take care of the computer. I think it's stupid to overclock someone else's computer, and most of the time overclocking is pointless. Why overclock when everything you want runs at a perfectly acceptable speed?

@ shadowflare
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't look very hard. This one uses DDR2 and is $10 cheaper, but since this will be a somewhat gaming computer, it's moot.

@Johnny
Triple channel is significantly better than dual channel, probably by, uh, 50%. I also don't think that motherboard will be on triple channel, as you need a motherboard with 3 channels to utilize it. That motherboard only has 2 channels. I don't know how it works anymore, but I also think if you use 3 sticks, you'll be running them on single channel rather than dual channel.
the second number tells you the quality of the card. The first number tells you the generation (at least for nvidia and old ATi). New ATi goes by a slightly different standard, since the 3rd number is sort of included with the 2nd number. Typically you can go up a generation and down 1 on the quality, and you'll have equal cards (9600=8800). I don't understand the GTS/GTX scheme of things on the nVidia side. I'm glad ATi got rid of that with the HD 3xxx series.

You are correct in some ways. I came out with $400 with a $30 Windows 7. It had much better RAM, PSU, and CPU. Why? Because you can't buy Agenas anymore. AMD is sold out. DDR2 isn't being manufactured anymore (it used to be $35 for 4 GB, now it's $60 for high end DDR2). These are refurbs, and were bought a while ago, using spare parts. They really aren't making much money off of these (might be losing money).

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 30 2009, 6:04 am by rockz.

My point in mentioning that was that there is probably not much reason (if any) to get a DDR2 board for a new AMD system over a DDR3 board. You may even be able to get DDR3 RAM that is faster than the system can utilize without paying extra or without even paying more than you would for DDR2 at current prices. Though DDR3 1600 speeds probably aren't even useful yet, it is still priced competitively with DDR3 1333.

First of all, thank you rockz for this right here. Also, the HDD I recommended is a WD Caviar. I doubt their HDD is of such quality. But whatever.

Vrael if you can tell me what exactly game / program wise your family is going to expect out of this machine, it'd be a lot easier to make it a nice custom fit. Does your brother play older or newer games? Do your parents use any specific applications for any business type things? Anyone into audio/video editing?

Also overclocking is as easy as reading for 10 minutes and then changing some numbers. I still say 3.2-3.6GHz is a good conservative estimate on stock cooling.

Also I forgot you're going to want a tube of thermal compound, but thats like 6$. This would be good but it isn't free shipping. If you have a local PC shop, it might be better to pick up a tube there. Try to get Arctic Silver 5, Arctic MX-2 or if they have it, and this would astound me, the OCZ Freeze Extreme. There's a reason the OCZ is never in stock anywhere: Everyone is buying it up like candy. Its cheap, its more effective than compounds three times its price, and everyone wants a tube. The reason I say this is because with a good thermal compound, you can guarantee yourself a good overclock, even if you get a mediocre chip, which does happen sometimes.

From all reports, (and believe me I read PAGES because I'm considering replacing my 100% OC'd E2140 (1.6 -> 3.2Ghz), with an E6300) the E6300 has been 90% of the time a good chip with good clocks and good temps. It is the epitome of the Pentium C2D value: Low temps, low price, high clocks. With a good thermal compound I think the stock cooler does have just below 4GHz potential, probably 3.3GHz at the lowest and 3.9GHz at the highest. So considering you're going from 2.8 -> 3.3GHz at the very least, 500mhz, for a tube of compound that with shipping is probably like 10-11$ if bought from the Egg, it still a good solid value. And that's bare minimum. Who knows? You could get a good chip and get 3.8GHz and still have some nice low temps.

In one of the E6300 OC threads someone got theirs to I think it was 4.2GHz with only a very small bump in voltage, we're talking like 1.32vcore. Granted they had aftermarket cooling, but they were doing like 30c idle 55c load anyway. Obviously you can approach 5GHz with higher voltage and better cooling but my point being the clocks they're getting at just above stock voltage is very impressive.

I know I'm rambling here but I just can't say enough in defense of the E6300, there hasn't been such a value since the E2140 dropped to 60$ in early 2008.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 30 2009, 1:41 pm by Excalibur.

I'm not 100% sure. My parents aren't going to want to buy another computer for probably another 10 years after this one, so I was going to try and get as much performance as possible for the price tag on this one for them. Right now your build is in the lead I think, but we also might wait a few months to buy anything (maybe thanksgiving break, maybe christmas).

Make sure to check with me the same week you plan on buying, that way I can check for promo codes, free shipping, and combo deals.

Will do. I'm also hoping that we might catch the business cycle at the low end of the curve too, i.e. drop in prices on some newer stuff, some extra bang for the buck, ect. You guys probably know about that better than I do. I'm pretty convinced buying from newegg and building it ourselves is the way to go at this point though. Even if I'm not home when the parts come, I know my dad will enjoy playing with it... lol

Okay, spent a few hours with my mom and pop today. This may not be THE most cost efficient build, but I'm pretty sure it'll work, and here's what we came up with:

49.99 - Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319&cm_re=640gb_western_digital-_-22-136-319-_-Product

25.99 - Sony Optiarc Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD/CD Rewritable Drive - OEM AD-7240S
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118030&cm_re=DVD_SATA-_-27-118-030-_-Product

167.99 - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037&cm_re=e8400_processor-_-19-115-037-_-Product

174.99 - HIS H487Q1GH Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161292&cm_re=Radeon_HD_4870-_-14-161-292-_-Product

94.99 - CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260&cm_re=DDR3_RAM-_-20-145-260-_-Product

99.99 - GIGABYTE GA-EP45T-UD3LR LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128371&cm_re=motherboards_LGA_775-_-13-128-371-_-Product

49.99 - Rosewill Wind Knight Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with pre-installed 2x 120mm Fan, Support up to 1x 140mm top fan, 2x 140mm side fan, 1x 140mm front fan, 1x 120mm rear fan - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147135

79.99 - Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015

5.99 - OCZ Freeze
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=OCZ+Freeze


$750 before rebates. 11 dollar shipping, 17 dollar 2-year warranty on the motherboard
- 30 (power supply rebate)
- 15 (motherboard rebate)

Basically, I started with the build you made for me, Ex, and used it as a reference kinda, then explained to my dad what the different numbers and ratings meant as we went along, and went with whatever my dad's final choice was (it is after all, his money). We didn't get the Liteon drive that you recommended Ex because we couldn't find the drivers for it online, and a couple reviews said people should know that it doesn't come with software. Doubled the hard drive cause my mom wanted lots of space. My dad didn't like the $72 wolfdale you recommended, so we bumped up to the 3.0ghz 8400. The 4850 you recommended was out of stock or discontinued, so we looked around and settled on that HIS HD4870. 4GB DDR3 RAM, we decided to go DDR3 for future upgrade compatability instead of DDR2. This of course meant we had to find a motherboard with DDR3. We picked that case because it had 2x fans and had a few good reviews. Ex recommended the power supply to Zany I think. And, don't we need a thermal compound? There wasn't one in your build but I remember you recommending the OCZ stuff to someone before.

Also going to be using Windows 7 Home Premium, gonna buy the $30 student version for my parents.

Ugh. Wrong on SO many levels. You DO NOT make a DDR3 775 build. ><

Look if you MUST have a system higher than the one I recommended, you're better off with an AM3 DDR3 setup.

I'm sorry Vrael but that build is wrong on SO many levels and I am just not going to go through them all but in very short it is such a waste of money and performance sacrifice you'd have to be a fool to order it.

If you like, I'll design you an AM3 build.

Whoa nelly. I think what would be more beneficial, is if you are willing, explain what's wrong with the current build? That's just if you're willing though, of course. Though I must admit I'm quite mystified as to how it can be so incredibly wrong on so many levels. Also, unfortunately AM3 is out of the question. There's no rhyme or reason to it, but my mother won't accept an AMD processor.

First off, let me clarify my previous comment. Your build made me rage and want to throw up at the same time. Using DDR3 on a 775 socket is like using Starforge for ISOM terrain: You just don't fucking do it. 775 processors were never meant to be paired with DDR3 RAM. Most P45s are DDR2. Gigabyte essentially customed a board for 775 and DDR3 and that usually means it isn't a tried and tested design, which means I wouldn't do it, and it isn't performance effective even if it does work.


Beat your build with AM3:
CPU and Mobo Combo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.295699
Saves 50$

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
See below.

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303
Ripjaws has been winning awards left and right. Anandtech's official reviewers can't get enough of them. BUY IT!

HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
Good call on the WD Caviar Black.

GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102864
5000 series supports DX11. Is VERY future proof.

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016

Thermal: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835202006

$733.95 after tax and shipping.


Why my build is better:
Cheaper.
5000 series GPU, supports DX11, more future proof. I'm not up on where 4000 vs 5000 card specifically stack up but I imagine that 5770 1GB beats a 4870 512mb at the very least.
Quad core. And a black edition at that. Will OC very easily.
A board and CPU actually designed for DDR3 rather than hacked.
A case by a respectable manufacturer that isn't a repackaged rebrand of another design. The one you chose is a re-badged Antec sold under the Rosewill name. I use a CM 690 and recommend them to everyone I meet. You will not find a better case, END OF STORY.

Lulz, that does stink Is your mom like a tech person or something, or is someone from work just dissing on AMD?