actually me & libby play this all the time on west and the samurai is p. op'd if you know how to use him @ beginning.
oh? Then please elaborate. Exactly what does the sammy do to be so op, any what did the other heroes do/not do to allow this to take place.
edit: are you playing version 1.5? The sam was nerfed a lil bit.
He has the highest health, upgrades by 6s and long stun times. The green aura allow him to keep pumping out mana at a high rate which allows him to constantly use stunning spells and because of the gold arua he gets increased mineral gain so he normally has more upgrades than you so he can do insanely high damage at a fast rate while you're stunned, because of the health and higher upgrades he can take anything you can dish out. He is definitely Over Powered. And yes I am playing 1.05
That's just listing his powers. That's not describing what happened that game. I could also say that the Illu has the strongest final that can kill a player anywhere on the map, although that is only true if he has a ton of ups and mana.
A pro Samurai won't be able to get a lot of hp and spells, shields, and weapons all at the same time. The Sam's main counters are the dt, rm, psycho, and alch (mid game with steel).
How the samurai counters your "counters"
Runemage
Impulse/Counjered - Crying heavens
Mindlock/Wizardry Orb - Crying heavens
Anything else The Samurai can just tank.
Psychopath
Dropship - Crying Heavens
(Undead) Berserker - Easily Tanked
Mines are either tanked, avoided with Defensive Stance (Multiple Castings) or Killed with spells (spells, like black dragon, keep enemies away).
Alchemist (steel spells)
Shrapnel - Tanked or Avoided Defensive Stance (Multiple Castings)
Inferno - Defensive Stance (Multiple Castings)
Ninja is the only decent counter I've seen but countering with Ninja can only be done with multiple castings of Shadow Stitch, at night.
Impulse isn't a hero killing spell, but rather a base killer.
Mindlock is used as a trap or ambush. It's easy to sneak it in the zealot's escape path and rape him. The goons w/ range upgrade & ups will rape zealot if he is low on life.
The dropship has a distinct advantage against the sam, as archons have a small range. A skilled player will be able to out maneuver the zealot, and do much damage. In addition, attacking with spawn nullifies the effect of crying heaven, as the ds isn't automatically targeted.
The alch will ass rape the zealot night 1 to night 2. Alch has the fastest exp gain in the game, and w/ steel spells, does a ton of damage to small units like the zealot (even w/o spells). The bat can also manual attack, making offensive stance moot. Later in the game, the zealot does have an advantage over the alch. (assuming the alch didn't steal all his kills from splash).
Even though the dragoons do some good damage their attack damage type is explosive so they only do 50% damage to the samurai. even with 20 ups you only do a max of 54 per hit and its not like the orb stuns, so he still has time to just run off.
The drop ship has 285 health max 0 armor, 1 mistake and you're dead. Also what in the dropship is so damaging?
The alchemist only does 20+2u so manual attack is unimportant , and night 1 - night 2 is kind of a small time range to try to eliminate the samurai. Offensive stance still stuns him in case the samurai needs to run
How about instead of arguing we actually play and see how this all works out?
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Also what in the dropship is so damaging?
Inferno Bombs. You unlock them from buying power upgrade twice.
Anyway guys, I'm workin on this shit in the little spare time that I have. Samurai is still slight OP in MOST CASES. Although there are a few ways to counter him extremely well, he is OP in most other match ups. I've been toying around to figure out how to best handle this, and I think I've figured some stuff out. You'll have to wait til 1.06 is out to see.
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Also what in the dropship is so damaging?
Inferno Bombs. You unlock them from buying power upgrade twice.
Anyway guys, I'm workin on this shit in the little spare time that I have. Samurai is still slight OP in MOST CASES. Although there are a few ways to counter him extremely well, he is OP in most other match ups. I've been toying around to figure out how to best handle this, and I think I've figured some stuff out. You'll have to wait til 1.06 is out to see.
Inferno Bomb only lasts a couple seconds, it seems to be >5 seconds, but I am glad to see that you're nerfing him
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20 ups on terran weapons + DS with 2 power levels can take out 2 cannons.
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20 ups on terran weapons + DS with 2 power levels can take out 2 cannons.
I doubt it
So you're saying that what pigs said is false? If so, you need to play HS ALOT more.
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20 ups on terran weapons + DS with 2 power levels can take out 2 cannons.
I doubt it
So you're saying that what pigs said is false? If so, you need to play HS ALOT more.
No, thats not what I said, I said I doubt it. I doubt it means I don't believe its true, not that it isn't true. But I still doubt it. Flames (Hbat) does 34+2u so it would do 74 but its concussive and only does 25% (18.5) damage to large units and buildings so i doubt 14 bats can take out 2 cannons with regenerating shields and 1600 hp in under 5 seconds. If you believe they can then YOU need to play more HS, A LOT more.
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Yes I do need to play HS alot more. Only had a few games under my belt
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It depends on when it's used. Later in the game it is highly unlikely, but if done during mists or fangs spawn the cannons would definitely be toasted with those ups.
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Just a suggestion-
Have a death counter counting up constantly and base the number of minerals granted by a random mineral packet on that number. Thus it would scale efficiently throughout the entire game. You could also place a cutoff - a maximum limit on it - so people don't get insanely high amounts of minerals during extremely long matches, which are bound to happen sometimes.
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Just a suggestion-
Have a death counter counting up constantly and base the number of minerals granted by a random mineral packet on that number. Thus it would scale efficiently throughout the entire game. You could also place a cutoff - a maximum limit on it - so people don't get insanely high amounts of minerals during extremely long matches, which are bound to happen sometimes.
Already included. Random minerals give 1-12 pre-spirit spawns and 8-20 starting at spirits and higher. This is good enough scaling and I cannot afford to introduce the new triggers that would be required to expand upon it. Especially since games seldom get to pest or higher, where the next logical random mineral increment would be.
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>be faceless void >mfw I have no face
Yes I do need to play HS alot more. Only had a few games under my belt
LibertyPrime, Xero is probably the most skilled HS player out there. If he says something is possible, you better believe it.
Red classic.
"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."
Already included. Random minerals give 1-12 pre-spirit spawns and 8-20 starting at spirits and higher. This is good enough scaling and I cannot afford to introduce the new triggers that would be required to expand upon it. Especially since games seldom get to pest or higher, where the next logical random mineral increment would be.
I already knew you were having it scale late-game. I figured that a more dynamic system would be preferable, but I guess it's better to cut down on trigger lag as much as possible.
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Yes I do need to play HS alot more. Only had a few games under my belt
LibertyPrime, Xero is probably the most skilled HS player out there. If he says something is possible, you better believe it.
Thank you, I feel honored
Well, I wouldn't say most skilled, just good. I think pigs is better than me...maybe, and some others
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I guess numbers and logic mean nothing here
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I guess numbers and logic mean nothing here
Sigh...
If you're gonna use math to try to prove us wrong, at least do the math right.
Normal inferno:(34+2*20 damage per shot * .25 concus - 10 armor)*2.5 hits per cooldown *
16 bats / 2 cannons * 6.5 game seconds * (83/60) shots per game second = 1528.5833 damage
Extra Damage inferno:(34+2*20 damage per shot * .25 concus - 10 armor)*2.5 hits per cooldown *
19 bats / 2 cannons * 6.5 game seconds * (83/60) shots per game second = 1815.1927 damage
18 bats (in case it's not 19)= 1719.65625 Damage
cannons have 1600 life, and 100 shields.
A 19 bat inferno will rape 2 cannons with 20 ups. A 16 bat inferno will leave a cannon with 72 life, something that can be done by 1 wave of extra zerglings (2X flowing a lane).
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I guess numbers and logic mean nothing here
Sigh...
If you're gonna use math to try to prove us wrong, at least do the math right.
Normal inferno:(34+2*20 damage per shot * .25 concus - 10 armor)*2.5 hits per cooldown *
16 bats / 2 cannons * 6.5 game seconds * (83/60) shots per game second = 1528.5833 damage
Extra Damage inferno:(34+2*20 damage per shot * .25 concus - 10 armor)*2.5 hits per cooldown *
19 bats / 2 cannons * 6.5 game seconds * (83/60) shots per game second = 1815.1927 damage
18 bats (in case it's not 19)= 1719.65625 Damage
cannons have 1600 life, and 100 shields.
A 19 bat inferno will rape 2 cannons with 20 ups. A 16 bat inferno will leave a cannon with 72 life, something that can be done by 1 wave of extra zerglings (2X flowing a lane).
Bats do not spawn in boxes around the cannons and cannons are not right next to each other, there is no good way to calculate this but it takes time for bats to surround a cannon and it takes time to walk to another cannon if one dies, it doesn't take long but bats don't spawn for very long. (I'm not sure if you calculated for attack rate with stimpacks but if you did, bats will not spawn stimpacked and it will take a second to stimpack them all) By the way, you calculated wrong, armor is subtracted before Damage Type takes effect.
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By the way, you calculated wrong, armor is subtracted before Damage Type takes effect.
You're right. I also forgot to double the armor:
Normal inferno:((34+2*20 damage per shot - 10 armor*2) * .25 concus)*2.5 hits per cooldown *
16 bats / 2 cannons * 5.5 game seconds * (83/60) shots per game second = 2054.25 damage
Extra Damage inferno:((34+2*20 damage per shot - 10 armor*2) * .25 concus)*2.5 hits per cooldown *
19 bats / 2 cannons * 5.5 game seconds * (83/60) shots per game second = 2439.4218 damage
18 bats (in case it's not 19)= 2311.0312 Damage
cannons have 1600 life, and 100 shields.
Bats do not spawn in boxes around the cannons and cannons are not right next to each other, there is no good way to calculate this but it takes time for bats to surround a cannon and it takes time to walk to another cannon if one dies, it doesn't take long but bats don't spawn for very long.
Ok, I gave 1 second for traveling speed to the cannons, which is an average since some bats will start attacking right away, and other will take more than 1 second.
(I'm not sure if you calculated for attack rate with stimpacks but if you did, bats will not spawn stimpacked and it will take a second to stimpack them all)
I did use the attack rate with stimpacks (83 attacks per 1 game minute). Most pros can stim firebats out of a dship within .1-.3 seconds. I personally average about .2 seconds.
With new calculations, 2 cannons vs inferno w/ 20 ups = cannons totally fucked over.
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^Guys, don't forget that those numbers are only for Mist spawn levels. They will be slightly lower as the shield regen amount for cannons increase with higher waves.
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^Guys, don't forget that those numbers are only for Mist spawn levels. They will be slightly lower as the shield regen amount for cannons increase with higher waves.
That amount is negligible for ling and ghost spawns, as the shield regens so slowly compared to duration that the bats attack. At best, the shield regens every .5 seconds, taking off like 20 shields*11 damage (220) at level 2 spawn.
At any higher spawn level, the player should have more ups.
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