Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Production > Topic: Destruction - First Contact
Destruction - First Contact
Aug 24 2009, 11:42 pm
By: Marine
Pages: < 1 2 3 >
 

Aug 27 2009, 4:30 am UnholyUrine Post #21



Okay, I've played this for a few minutes..

I must say, you've nailed the atmosphere and terrain very well. However, I'm not too sure about the gameplay.

I'll tell you what I meant by "spice". A game must make it so that the player seem to be really in control of what happens in the game, and that the player is the ultimate decision in the outcome of the story. This makes the players feel like they have a much bigger role.

So far, from my very limited play, it really doesn't feel like that it does. It is okay that they're the normal Marines with a few better ups, but they don't seem to fill the bigger role needed. The only thing that we could do is stim and attack in a group. In short, there's nothing interesting about the fighting system and nothing that drives me to continue playing other than to hear the rest of the story... which I felt was not enough.

The thing that you had going were the air strikes and bombing things. This is a GREAT thing to include, however, it is not controlled very well. For instance, in the beginning, it just randomly said "AIR SUPPORT wh00t!" and I saw some valkyries fly through, but I never saw where it actually bombed... that's no good :\...
I think it'd be best if air support can be called and directed by the player. This way, the players'd feel like they're more in control...
You can also use things like Grenades and all that.. to spice up the fighting parts...

I don't know... I haven't played much yet.. but yeah..

Btw, great story and atmosphere so far, I like it :D



None.

Aug 27 2009, 9:12 pm Marine Post #22



Quote from UnholyUrine
Okay, I've played this for a few minutes..

I must say, you've nailed the atmosphere and terrain very well. However, I'm not too sure about the gameplay.

I'll tell you what I meant by "spice". A game must make it so that the player seem to be really in control of what happens in the game, and that the player is the ultimate decision in the outcome of the story. This makes the players feel like they have a much bigger role.

So far, from my very limited play, it really doesn't feel like that it does. It is okay that they're the normal Marines with a few better ups, but they don't seem to fill the bigger role needed. The only thing that we could do is stim and attack in a group. In short, there's nothing interesting about the fighting system and nothing that drives me to continue playing other than to hear the rest of the story... which I felt was not enough.

The thing that you had going were the air strikes and bombing things. This is a GREAT thing to include, however, it is not controlled very well. For instance, in the beginning, it just randomly said "AIR SUPPORT wh00t!" and I saw some valkyries fly through, but I never saw where it actually bombed... that's no good :\...
I think it'd be best if air support can be called and directed by the player. This way, the players'd feel like they're more in control...
You can also use things like Grenades and all that.. to spice up the fighting parts...

I don't know... I haven't played much yet.. but yeah..

Btw, great story and atmosphere so far, I like it :D

I can't add anything special like player-coordinated air strikes because all the locations have been used and are in use by several triggers each. However, I can remove the tutorial since it seems very pointless to include, that will give me roughly 3 locations? That I don't think is enough to add anything. Also the valkyries aren't bombs they're drop pods and you do see where they land. If you guys have any ideas I can use with 2-3 at the most 5 locations to spice things up as Unholy has said, please, tell me because I'm not sure what I need to do to "spice things up".

Also Unholy, when I play I feel I am in control because major objectives are done by the player, not the NPC's. However, that is how I feel when I play, I can't speak for anyone else. The fighting parts are done by teamwork and can't be done alone very easily so that's one thing that I feel gives the player a role. The fact that the player's marine group are the core fighters of the front lines I think is a big role in itself. But if you feel differently about my perespectives on things then please tell me.

Also to everyone, have you guys tried the v2 yet? If so, are the texts longer? Just curious to see if it works for all of you guys.



None.

Aug 27 2009, 10:39 pm lil-Inferno Post #23

Just here for the pie

You could make it so players direct the air strike via COP beacons. That would be interesting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but COP beacons don't disable after the first ten minutes, right? They only disable if they've been there for ten minutes, correct? I think I'm wrong, however.




Aug 27 2009, 10:41 pm Biophysicist Post #24



*corrects lil-Inferno because he's wrong*



None.

Aug 28 2009, 12:43 am Marine Post #25



So COP beacons are out of the idea. Nice try though, like the enthusiasm. ANy more ideas to spice things up in the fighting game play? I want this to be a kickass RPG that's good in as many aspects as possible.



None.

Aug 28 2009, 5:57 am UnholyUrine Post #26



How'd u manage to use all the locations o.O... I'm sure there're ways to let you use less locations.. but since ur map's nearly done, it's too late...

Anywho, since you cannot trigger anymore fighting mechanics such as calling down air strikes or throwing grenades, since that'd take up locations, I think we'd need to build upon your atmosphere and ideas...

Although this is only my idea, and I've only barely touched the map's surface, I feel that the map can be more objective orientated... What I mean is things like "Mission: Defend said base from onslaught" or "Mission: get to said area before said time" ... or "Mission: Protect said unit and bring said unit to said location"...
Obviously, do not make the entire rpg one mission after another... to perfect it, the story must flow with each mission... meaning there must be a reason to do each mission...

Maybe your crew are trying to get some ships back online, and that there's a Special Building close by that they must get to in 15 minutes.. This way, the player must fight hard to get there on time or face failure or at least a big loss. You can even throw in some kind of soldier control mechanics which allows the players to control when to attack... altho you'd need to figure that out yourself.

Once they reach that place, they'd be under siege, and you can give them the HMU or something so they can get into advantageous ground and Siege... However, the siege tank should be of highest threat to the computer, so trigger it so that they'd always try to attack the HMU if they're close to it... so the player must now protect the HMU in order to protect said Special Building...

Blah blah blah blah.. you can do a lot with your story... let it build into your game... A good story by itself is useless in a game, it must integrate itself into the game and make the game play that much more appealing...

On the same note, the things where the air drops ... drop without you knowing.. should be taken out.. there should be a Mission or something, where if you don't direct the air drops in time, the a defensive base will be destroyed, and the players won't be able to heal there... It should seldom happen without the players' knowledge... Do it that way only when you feel like you need to make the atmosphere more thrilling... It does lil to the gameplay.



None.

Aug 28 2009, 5:19 pm Craftstar2 Post #27



Is sergeant ryan and captain ryan different people?



None.

Aug 29 2009, 3:48 am samsizzle Post #28



honestly matey, this looks pretty sweet im trying it right now.



None.

Aug 30 2009, 2:47 pm Marine Post #29



Unholy: The missions already flow with one another, and a few of them aren't even missions but just suggestive objectives to keep you alive. So far the plan is to:
1) take out tutorial triggers/locatios, saving 2-3 locations
2) possibly take out the drop pods.
However, I can't make another mission as you suggested because the missions are already done and the game is near completed, so like you said, its too late. There is still the possibility that I'll take out the drop pods... however I don't want all that much... but if it's a damper on the map then I suppose I should. I'll start working on the tutorial removal and fixing a few other things, but I'll wait for your reply to start on the drop pod scene.



None.

Aug 30 2009, 2:57 pm TF- Post #30

🤙🏾

If you don't have locations then you can just have one (1) temporary location and units to center it on.

For instance to have controllable airstrikes:

- center temporary location on player unit (if you don't already have a player unit location)
- create a Flag on the temporary location (Airstrike Marker!!!)
--- in every trigger where you need the location of the airstrike -> center temporary location on flag

destroy the flag when the airstrike lands



You can also do this to save locations like for your tutorial, just place burrowed units for Players 9-10-11 (they will never unburrow and attack) and move the temporary location on top of them when needed.



🤙🏾

Aug 31 2009, 1:57 am Marine Post #31



Quote from TF-
If you don't have locations then you can just have one (1) temporary location and units to center it on.

For instance to have controllable airstrikes:

- center temporary location on player unit (if you don't already have a player unit location)
- create a Flag on the temporary location (Airstrike Marker!!!)
--- in every trigger where you need the location of the airstrike -> center temporary location on flag

destroy the flag when the airstrike lands



You can also do this to save locations like for your tutorial, just place burrowed units for Players 9-10-11 (they will never unburrow and attack) and move the temporary location on top of them when needed.

This just opened up a lot of workable space for me. I have an idea for the air strike, tell me if it's wrong or won't work or isn't good;

Player places 3 burrowed units, each within the range of the first one, each marker a different unit, and once the air strike is set off, an explosion effect happens at marker 1, then 2, then 3, and you can place these markers anywhere you want to as long as they are close enough to the player and each other.

The first burrowed unit will be the control, and will start unburrowed and invincable for distant placement, however, it cannot leave the area in which a large location spawns by the marine, and while the air strike is being set, the current player's marine is invincable and immobile until the air strike is set. Once a unit burrows, the next marker will spawn and be placed. After all 3 are spawned, 3 smaller locations center on the markers and BOOM! Controllable air strike. It only requires 2-4 locations, and that's as much as I can get off. To prevent mass air strike usage, I'll make the cool down long enough (I'm thinking 5 minutes?) but not too long.

This system I hope works because it gives the player:
1)Opportunity
2)Distance
3)Destruction
4)A better gameplay

If something is wrong with this idea of triggers please let me know. By friday I will have all the new changes complete and beta v3 will be put up while v2 and v1 are removed.

EDIT:
I consulted a few friends and they made a good point to me. The story of the game is war; a war which includes very few humans left. In the story air craft are being shot down left and right, so an airstrike would be going against the story. Sorry, but the gameplay so far stays the same. I'm still taking out the tutorial, but I'm leaving the drop scene. Friday v3 will be up.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 31 2009, 2:14 am by Marine.



None.

Aug 31 2009, 6:27 am Tempz Post #32



Even so if the ships are being shot out of the sky left and right....
You can make it so that there is a chance that they can attack.
This percentage gets higher as you kill more anti air units so it makes it seem realistic.

To make it realistic sometimes the air strike can fail and there are humans that come out... (again percentage here)
Same with drop pods...

Even if you think is unrealistic how about the team has to fix a broken radio or operate a regular one (2 different waiting times)
So you can choose when to activate this special as an option to help the team (opens up secret radio locations)



None.

Aug 31 2009, 5:42 pm TF- Post #33

🤙🏾

Quote from Marine

This just opened up a lot of workable space for me. I have an idea for the air strike, tell me if it's wrong or won't work or isn't good;

Player places 3 burrowed units, each within the range of the first one, each marker a different unit, and once the air strike is set off, an explosion effect happens at marker 1, then 2, then 3, and you can place these markers anywhere you want to as long as they are close enough to the player and each other.

The first burrowed unit will be the control, and will start unburrowed and invincable for distant placement, however, it cannot leave the area in which a large location spawns by the marine, and while the air strike is being set, the current player's marine is invincable and immobile until the air strike is set. Once a unit burrows, the next marker will spawn and be placed. After all 3 are spawned, 3 smaller locations center on the markers and BOOM! Controllable air strike. It only requires 2-4 locations, and that's as much as I can get off. To prevent mass air strike usage, I'll make the cool down long enough (I'm thinking 5 minutes?) but not too long.

This system I hope works because it gives the player:
1)Opportunity
2)Distance
3)Destruction
4)A better gameplay

If something is wrong with this idea of triggers please let me know. By friday I will have all the new changes complete and beta v3 will be put up while v2 and v1 are removed.

EDIT:
I consulted a few friends and they made a good point to me. The story of the game is war; a war which includes very few humans left. In the story air craft are being shot down left and right, so an airstrike would be going against the story. Sorry, but the gameplay so far stays the same. I'm still taking out the tutorial, but I'm leaving the drop scene. Friday v3 will be up.


Re: the story reasons -- you can still have air strikes easily, it doesn't have to be a whole airbase, it could be just a lone surviving pilot who is loyal to the cause or something, but that's not my business

Your idea should work fine btw, I guess you want multiple locations to make the airstrike seem more intense than just a single explosion.



🤙🏾

Aug 31 2009, 9:10 pm Marine Post #34



Alright, I'll go with the air strike and I'll put it back on schedule for friday. TF- had a good point about the lone pilot. Maybe I could make a wait period in which the team is trying to get ahold of a pilot. I might also add the percentages given and some new optional* objectives so the air strikes could happen. However, I'm going to make it so the first part and the second act until the right moment can't have air strikes, and to enable it 3 anti-air weapons must be taken out in the first act ONLY, that way if you miss them and don't do it, you don't get air strikes in the second/fourth act. The reason you won't have it in the third is because it's indoors.

EDIT: Unless my SCM Draft works again, the date that v3 is due might be pushed back.
EDIT2: Nevermind got a good version.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Aug 31 2009, 11:44 pm by Marine.



None.

Sep 2 2009, 5:52 pm Tempz Post #35



I'm still confused by what you mean anti air weapons?
Anyways depending on how great of changes you make you easily just call it V3.5 or something like that....

Good luck and Have fun on future ambitions
Tempz



None.

Sep 11 2009, 3:17 am Marine Post #36



Jesus I'm so sorry I forgot to put up bv3 I've been really busy. By sunday this week I promise Beta v3 will be up with everything working! :><:



None.

Sep 12 2009, 12:48 am Tempz Post #37



btw why can't i play Captain Ryan ;(



None.

Sep 17 2009, 3:15 am Marine Post #38



Quote from Tempz
btw why can't i play Captain Ryan ;(
How far have you gotten?



None.

Sep 19 2009, 2:58 am Tempz Post #39



umm with the regular marine and a bit of luck on p1 first ship 0.o
that not the one in the starting location...



None.

Sep 21 2009, 4:22 am CecilSunkure Post #40



I played this with 5 people today.

Player 1 has 255 upgrades. I'm sure that isn't intentional. Also, after we round up all the marine camps, that was it, nothing happened. That can't be all that you made so far, because that's how far you were moths ago when I played this map. Basically, after the first marine round up, the other marine groups just stopped working (except for the marine base on the top right).

As for spicing up the gameplay, if you used all your locations already, I suggest using burrowed units for some locations. I've taken a look at this map before, and you used a lot of locations that could have been converted into burrowed units, by placing a single static location over all the burrowed locations, with 1 small location to center on the burrowed units. Using this method, I have used something around 50 locations for my RPG, which is pretty good considering I have like 15 constantly centered on the main character. Yes, it is going to be a lot of work to re-trigger things, but if you really want to improve upon the map, you need to improve the player experience in some way. You need to have variety, many different ways to kill enemies besides just shooting with a marine.

But like I said months ago, music, flying units (like the ones near the beginning, the human fleet), playable cutscenes, and the text do a great of job setting the atmosphere, keep it up.

Also, like I said months ago.. Jeeze I said a lot back then didn't I? You might be able to trigger in rescueable units, or use a rescueable player, so that players can find secret locations in which they gain extra units to control. Like in your other map, when you added a few random zerglings in which people could find and control, to help break the sheer monotony of click shoot clicking with the marines. This would require, maybe, no extra locations at all.

I'd like to try the map again once it gets into a working shape! Good luck!



None.

Options
Pages: < 1 2 3 >
  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[08:43 am]
TheHappy115 -- Yea, thats the issue. Thanks. It would also explain why my deleted map couldn't get updated. Updated version reduced collision on units (only thing added) since was dodging game (players collide with each other)
[2024-5-28. : 5:26 am]
Ultraviolet -- If so, I'd just focus on getting them on scmscx.com and then you can link to that in the showcase thread for your maps
[2024-5-28. : 5:25 am]
Ultraviolet -- I can't upload my EUD maps, I think the DLDB has some issue with handling them. Are you trying to upload EUD maps?
[2024-5-28. : 2:06 am]
TheHappy115 -- Its been awhile but ever since I requested one of the Maps I posted to be deleted since I couldn't delete it myself (or update it), I haven't been able to upload any more maps. Any reason for that?
[2024-5-26. : 7:14 pm]
Kyradax -- Hi
[2024-5-26. : 5:05 pm]
O)FaRTy1billion[MM] -- :wob:
[2024-5-25. : 9:22 am]
Zycorax -- :wob:
[2024-5-23. : 3:50 pm]
Ultraviolet -- :wob:
[2024-5-23. : 6:26 am]
UndeadStar -- :wob:
[2024-5-22. : 6:10 am]
Riney -- Somethings never change.
Please log in to shout.


Members Online: eksxo, Roy