I didn't really read much but the boycott won't work unless a majority of the L4D community vowed to not buy it. They were slacking on the updates IMO, and this is their way to make up for it. People now will have to dish out another "paycheck" for a game that they already have. I hope the boycott works.

The current boycott population is at least 41,500 and still counting (Considering there are thousands that have yet to join). That's more than double of Left 4 Dead's daily peak population. Considering that the boycott are generally PC players, and still plays Left 4 Dead today, my estimate of Left 4 Dead 2's daily peak population would be very low on the PC version, and if all current boycotters refuses (As according to the boycott) to purchase Left 4 Dead 2 (They can still play it through friend's account or through mods in L4D1) on release, guaranteed that over $2,075,000 will not go into Valve's pockets.

Halo 3 (Competing with Call of Duty 4, Call of Duty: World at War, Gears of War 2, Fable II and GTA IV), being #1 played according to Major Nelson, with a peak population according to Bungie.net being more or less than both Counter Strike and Counter Strike: Source population combined (120,000 to 140,000). Left 4 Dead, originally being behind Halo 3's competition now clearly left the top 10 as of August 3rd according to Major Nelson (It could bounce back up). And usually the games ranked after #5 only have thousands to tens of thousands of population. On the Original Xbox, Halo 2 population will and always will remain #1 with a thousand to ten thousand (probably max) but having Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Doom 3 and Conker on the top 7, have an online population of under 16 or less people (As I have recently seen in person).


Also note that 30% that bought Call of Duty 4 which connected to Xbox Live did not even finish the F.N.G. (Tutorial level, basically). According to Half Life 2: Episode 2 achievements on PC, about 50% that bought it beaten the game, also 28.1% that did buy Ep2 did not even kill a single acid antlion worker, but the linear gameplay pretty much asks players to kill it, thus being mandatory to earn.

With these type of statistics from other games, will Left 4 Dead 2 sell well? Most likely. But will there be a high amount of population in online? Probably not if at least 41,500 boycotters are likely to be active Steam users (who often play Left 4 Dead and are the ones that paid for full price), and is more than doubled the daily population peak of Left 4 Dead 1. I'm genuine that Left 4 Dead 2 online on PC will not go as well as Left 4 Dead 1's online on PC, but I may be wrong on the Xbox 360 version. And yes, the boycotters do in fact, make up as the majority of the Left 4 Dead online gaming community. And as repeated, boycott poputation is more than twice of the Left 4 Dead 1's daily population peak.

Just thought you guys would like to see this link
LFD2
><

I'm talking about the multiplayer population on PC. Most buyers either play it for Single Player, LAN, or don't even play it all (Take the consideration how 30% that bought COD4 didn't finish the tutorial level).

According to Steam, only 45.1% that bought Left 4 Dead beaten the No Mercy campaign. And only 11.9% of the entire Left 4 Dead population on PC at least beaten one expert Campaign. Also considering that this is an online achievement, and if players play Versus a lot: only 36.9% of the entire Left 4 Dead population on PC achieved Dead Wreckening (It would be impossible if you play versus a lot and not achieve this, unless you really, really suck)

Considering 2.5 million players bought Left 4 Dead on either Xbox 360 or PC, only more or less 20,000 players logged in online in Steam for Left 4 Dead. Noting how the boycott players are likely active players who play Left 4 Dead a lot, they are a major contributor to the multiplayer population.

As said again:

I was wonder if anyone got a chance to try the new expansion I was talking about earlier for Left 4 Dead. Free on the computer, which is nice, but I had to pay money for it on the Xbox 360. I have to say, I really like it. It gave me a new reason to play the game.

The new campaign, Crash Course, is set up to prepare gamers for L4D 2. Though only two chapters long, the levels are larger which allows players to explore different paths, and to choose which path is the best choice. At one point, there is the option to jump on some cars to scale a fence and avoid an entire part of the level, but players must decide if this is the best idea for a path. Upon talking this shortcut, it is presented with setting off a car alarm and alerting the horde. This might make the stage go faster, but now the players must defend against a mass swarm of infected whilst looking out for the special infected.

Weapons in the game are now set up differently as well. Like before, players start out with basic weapons, and, as the stage progresses, players can find enhanced weapons. This time around, the weapons found through playing the levels are not grouped all together. At times, players might find an assault rifle and a sniper rifle, but no automatic shotgun. Players must progress further in order to find an automatic shotgun.

The finale of the campaign is actually interesting. Where in previous finales the rescue vehicle would appear or open after a third wave of infected begin to attack the survivors, this time around, the rescue vehicle is already opening just as the third wave is coming attack. This would not be a problem if the rescue vehicle was not parked next to two locations the survivors can camp out at. With that in mind, it might make this the easiest finale to survive. However, this idea can be quickly disregarded because the survivors are required to restart a generator with a ten second load whilst under attack. Failure to start the generator allows the infected to attack constantly in short burst groups.

It is great to finally get some new downloadable content for Left 4 Dead. Especially ones with achievements. It makes me happy just to have the game back in my Xbox 360 again because it has been collecting dust on a shelve for a few months now. For anyone that plays on the computer, I would suggest trying out. For those on the Xbox 360 that are probably not considered to be very big on the game, maybe two new levels is not worth the money.

Anyone else planning on buying this on Steam in a pack of four? I think it saves you 10 dollars, which is just epic.

Judging on Left 4 Dead 2 so far, I'm actually quite concerned where it is heading to. And this is not my boycott talk.

I do appreciate the new special infected roles: the Charger, the Spitter, and the Jockey. And they are actually from the fan base, taken by Valve. Though the Jockey should have a different name. They're great.

On Versus, Tank players can easily die in Left 4 Dead 1, even from the nerfed Auto Shotgun, and Molotov Cocktail. The Tank's fate will end up as the Heavy from Team Fortress 2. The Heavy, while updated, future updates such as the Scout's Sandman stunning enemies, the Spy's Dead Ringer allowed the Heavy to die more often. Incendiary ammo, as mentioned by a dev, allows the player to easily kill the tank faster. The Tank on Left 4 Dead 1 can never extinguish the fire, because he's the Tank. It wouldn't make sense for balance issues if it extinguishes on Left 4 Dead 2. So the Tank is easily ignitable from bullets. Molotov Cocktails are not recommended if one bullet is enough to ignite the Tank easily.
Explosive rounds, and the grenade launcher will slow down the Tank by knock back, and it is an explosive type, meaning high damage. A grenade launcher likely have the same damage as the pipe bomb is very bad news for Tank players.
The Magnum (Can be picked up in Safe Rooms), and the AK47 deals "terrible, terrible damage", especially against the Special Infected. That allows players to kill the Tank even faster.

RIP Tank.



Unnecessary quantity set of weapons. The original weapons on Left 4 Dead 1 provides simplicity, close quarters, medium range automatic, and sniping at far distances. Left 4 Dead 1 aimed at quality, where each weapon actually have a specific assigned role. But even on Left 4 Dead 1, most players will have a preference to stick to the same weapon more often than the other ones. In Left 4 Dead 2, the same will happen here.

According to L4D wikia, the Silent Submachine Gun is practically the same as the regular Submachine gun, only suppressed. I don't find the Silencer any different, especially that a regular SMG does not attract a horde, and the Silencer does not do any different on crescendo events.

Chrome Shotgun is basically the same Pump Shotgun, just a different skin, just as the Silent SMG to the regular SMG.

Combat Rifle/SCAR is a burst shot weapon, I actually approve this weapon because it's new, not a weapon with modified damage, reload time, and ammo capacity of a predecessor. And because it's a burst shot weapon, it conserves ammo, and is accurate.

The SPAS-12 of Left 4 Dead 2, and the Auto Shotgun of Left 4 Dead 1 do not share any difference than appearance.

AK-47, according to what I've heard, is a close ranged high damage automatic weapon. In my opinion, it's just an Auto Shotgun holding down mouse1. W+m1. And it seems imbalanced against the Tank.

Grenade Launcher seems to be imbalanced. You'd have to be an idiot and/or griefer if you are shooting at your own teammates. The reload time doesn't prove much for balance, since you can melee while you reload, and/or go to pistol/magnum. Killing a group of infected every four seconds would be just as effective as side arms with infinite ammo. It's effective against hordes during crescendo events, and is definitely effective against a Tank. The Tank will be stunned, and knocked back every four seconds. The Scout in Team Fortress 2 can stun a Heavy every 15+ seconds (or picked up), with a variation of how long the Tank would be stunned according to distance of where the baseball came from. Even from 15+ seconds, the Heavy is already vulnerable to many attacks, the same can be said to the Tank stunned every 4+ seconds. The Witch doesn't stand a chance against a grenade launcher, let alone melee weapons, and auto shotguns crowning her. It's cheap, even if it only has one ammo, and long reloading time. That survivor will take cover, defended by other survivors.

Tier 2 Weapon G3 made the original Hunting Rifle back to Tier 1. I find that unusual, even if G3 does more damage, doubled the ammo capacity, and accurate while moving. I assume the G3's role is to be more effective against the Special Infected, especially the Tank. Tier 1 Hunting Rifle is fine as it is against normal Special Infected, but against Tanks, Chargers, and Witches proves a bit of imbalance. I'm not certain if it is balanced or not, but it will remind me of micro from StarCraft. Run away, and shoot; rinse and repeat. The same can be said for the Tier 1, but the Tier 2 G3 is more effective against the Tank. G3 is nice, but seems imbalanced.

It looks like the second type of pistol is no different than the original than appearance.

Magnum (.50 Desert Eagle), which is basically the Handcannon. Just as the G3, just to be more effective against special infected. It's just one little more of half of a regular pistol that cannot be dual wielded. Or about 1/4 of dual wielded pistols in terms of ammo capacity. If Tier 2 Shotgun and Hunting Rifle deal more damage, and have more ammo than its Tier 1 predecessor, yet this "Magnum" cannot be dual wielded and has about 1/2 ammo capacity of one pistol, I will assume it will deal out "terrible, terrible damage". If the Auto Shotgun, and G3 both receive the benefits of higher damage, and higher ammo capacity, but the Tier 2 Pistol "Magnum" cannot be dual wielded, and the ammo capacity is 1/2 of a regular standard pistol; the magnum will be a beast weapon. And yes, it is the Desert Eagle, so we can expect that this Magnum is a beast, especially against the Tank. And it has infinite ammo.


And now: Melee weapons. According to L4D wikia, some only instant kill common infected, and some instant kill both common, and special infected.

. . .

Quantity strikes again! Ten melee weapons, some are Tier 1, some are Tier 2 (In my definition if some are more effective against special infected). Some with its own abilities, such as frying pan sending zombies flying, Katana with wider range, Chainsaw runs out of gas (How worthless), executioner style for the Axe, and other melee weapons have some unknown functions. If all melee weapons instant kills, you might as well find a melee weapon that allows you to hit faster, or wider range. And since all melee weapons has an instant kill, that leaves the Chainsaw worthless. Unless the Chainsaw is portrayed from the game Doom games, than Gears of War, then that's different. The Chainsaw from Doom, just hold down the trigger, and any zombie unlucky to cross your path will die. If the Chainsaw is portrayed like Gears of War, only killing a single target at a time, then it's worthless if compared to the other melee weapons.
I don't find the instant-kill melee weapons great; as a few, fast melee hits from your weapon is enough to kill a single infected. I prefer sticking with the pistols, than the melee weapons.



Okay, these "new weapons" are not new. This is what happens if Valve accepted a casual perspective for additional redundant weapons, that would really imbalance the game.
You might as well pick up the best weapon there is, leaving total imbalance issues.

• All melee weapons are instant kill, nine others are identical in gameplay wise, and are "just there" for different graphics. Chainsaw seems to be worst of all.
• G3 is twice as more powerful than the Hunting Rifle, as if the Hunting Rifle itself can't instant kill common infected, special infected (It is instant kill for common infected, high damage on special infected), only to have a defined role against the Tank and Witch.
• SPAS-12 is the same as the original Auto Shotgun.
• Combat Rifle/SCAR is awesome.
• AK47 is an automatic Auto Shotgun in terms of gameplay.
• Chrome Shotgun is the same as Pump Shotgun
• Silent SMG is the same as SMG
• P220 Pistol is the same as the original Pistol
• Magnum is the motherf*cking handcannon.
• Incendiary ammo is a lazy version of Molotov Cocktails
• Explosive ammo is a lazy version of non-attractive pipe bomb
• Grenade Launcher seems imbalanced, just a pipe bomb thrower that can't attract the horde.

In reality, there are 6 new weapons (Red are imbalanced):

• G3
• Combat Rifle/SCAR
• AK47
• Grenade Launcher
• Magnum
• Melee weapon

The rest are all skins. Sigh.

Lastly, I don't like the new characters. Conman is okay. Uncle Phil, Redneck Scout, Tara from True Blood all suck. I still prefer Zoey, Bill, Louis, and Francis. And there is a bit of a problem in color identification if you immediately spawn as an infected, and do not have the time to know who is who if you want to aim at a particular target.

Left 4 Dead 1 Clothes:

• Zoey (Red)
• Bill (Green)
• Louis (White)
• Francis (Black)

Left 4 Dead 2 Clothes:

• Tara from True Blood (Pink)
• Uncle Phil (Yellow and Purple)
• Conman (White)
• Redneck Scout (White)

Purple is as similar as pink, but at least Uncle Phil has some yellow on his shoulders.

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Oct 10 2009, 8:16 am by KrayZee. Reason: moar

Only because you spoke in absolutes will I point out the Boathouse Finale.


Why would they even include a clearly inferior standard pistol in the game? It either has to have a slow rate of fire, or, because they seem to not like having slow rates of fire in these games about teamwork, horrible recoil and/or poor accuracy and/or worse moving accuracy. (The "Practical" rate of fire = 20-30 rpm, then again, you can run through your 12 shotgun shells in L4D1 in two seconds. (which is apparently possible, skip to 4:45.) We're talking about a magnum; You need strength to USE the damn thing, let alone unload a full clip in a second.

The current Pistol is doing 35 damage (point blank) or 22 damage (smoker range) (source). I wouldn't have a 6-10 shot Magnum doing any more than 4x-3x damage (depending on capcity) compared to the Pistol unless there were other balancing factors, assuming Valve is logical. Plus, unless Valve is stupid and the Magnum ridiculous, you'll probably stick to your primary weapons for Mr. Tank when he's around. That would mean the increased damage will only kill him faster when people are incapacitated anyway. And that's assuming that this Magnum will have Pistol-equivalent accuracy and low recoil. Give the developers some more credit here. (Then again, they must think the Hunting Rifle is balanced. ;o )


Tweaked Assult Rifle is more what I expect, assuming Valve is logical.


Why not? Source?


Agreed and QFT.
The designs aren't really set in stone. After all, ZBLF originally looked like this.

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Oct 15 2009, 2:53 am by Mini Moose 2707.

After reading KrayZee's post, I was going to mention that too.
With the few levels that have swamps to them in L4D2, I say that the tank will be fine if the player is smart enough.

I am quite interested in the new versus mode game, Scavenger. It seems like it can get pretty intense.

There's a demo for Left 4 Dead 2. Hopefully I'm wrong on the imbalances, but I don't think I'm wrong. I've seen the Desert Eagle on my friend's video, and it's pretty powerful to me. However, the Desert Eagle was by the Tank spawn in the video I saw, but no one picked it up yet after the Tank was brutally slaughtered, which I assume the game was on easy or normal.

At least the Tank AI got smarter; if the Tank incapacitates one survivor, then he attacks another survivor.

Edit: I saw the intro. It was more of a montage with a music, and I still don't like the characters. It didn't seem creepy, but it plays out more like a movie trailer. At first I thought the conman would be a badass, and now he's a background person. Instead Uncle Phil "coaches" (As he's considered Leader) other survivors. Redneck Scout finds himself wtfpwned.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 29 2009, 4:37 am by KrayZee.

The Gamestop I pre-ordered from is not doing a demo release.

I have been complaining about it all day! (sort of like a little bitch..)
This is only because my friends on Xbox 360 were playing it all day.

I am going to need to buy another game to hold me over till the 17th.
I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1 barely lasted me a day!

Sidearms (Green = New)

• P220 Pistol = M1911 Pistol (15/∞ ammo)
  
• P220 Pistol + Glock 17 = M1911 Pistol + M1911 Pistol (30/∞ ammo)
  
• Magnum (8/∞ ammo)

Tier 1

• Chrome Shotgun = Pump Shotgun (Chrome is slightly more accurate; 8/128 ammo)
  
• Silenced Submachine Gun = Submachine Gun (Standard is slightly more accurate; 50/650 ammo)
  
• Hunting Rifle (15/180 ammo)
  

Tier 2

• Combat Rifle (Three-round burst; 60/360 ammo)
• AK-47 (40/280 ammo)
• M-16 Assault Rifle (50/360 ammo)
• Combat Shotgun = Tactical (Auto) Shotgun (Combat is slightly more accurate; 10/128 ammo)
• Sniper Rifle (30/? ammo)

Special Tier

• Grenade Launcher (1/30 ammo)

Melee Weapon (Some are faster, some have wider range, some crowns the Witch, but they're all the same if used against common infected. And you shouldn't be using this against a Boomer anyways)

• Axe
• Baseball Bat (Pre-order bonus from GameStop, damn bastards)
• Chainsaw
• Cricket Bat
• Crowbar
• Electric Guitar
• Frying Pan
• Katana
• Machete
• Tonfa

Grenades

• Molotov Cocktail
• Pipe Bomb
• Boomer Bile (Attracts horde and uses horde as a weapon against enemies such as Witch, Tank, and other Special Infected)

Other

• Gas Can
• Propane Tank
• Oxygen Tank
• Machine Gun Turret

Misc

• First Aid Kit
• Pain Pills
• Adrenaline injector
• Defibrillator
• Incendiary Ammunition
• Explosive Ammunition

There's some new stuff such as the Defibrillator, Bile Bomb, and the Adrenaline (Although not much was said about this before when unveiled). These cool new toys seems to leave the Survivors breathe much easier.

The defibrillator revives dead players, enough said. You cannot rescue players on L4D1 on Versus, but you can have your own portable player reviver in L4D2. I'm not sure whether this is useful in the campaign if players can open up closets to rescue players. Or if rescue closets are removed from Left 4 Dead 2, and replaced with the defibrillators scattered in the map. I'm not certain but I'll have to check the demo to find out. Since rescue closets are disabled in Versus on Left 4 Dead 1 (Except the bugs on Crash Course), and having a rare (Actually, no matter how rare) defibrillator bringing the dead player back to 50% health is an odd move by Valve. They don't want players to be revived, but an item that allows to revive players will make its appearance in versus. Unless the AI Director is being douchebag to either team, whether a defibrillator spawned near a dead survivor (Or picked up along the way), or having it spawn at an area where the survivors are too far from their dead teammate, which gives them the option to run back and escorting them back forth, then ambushed several times in the process. It's nice to have a portable reviver if rescue closets are removed, otherwise it's just an emergency.
It's most definitely a need if used on scavenge, survival, and realism since it makes sense. I'm skeptical on campaign, because of the rescue closets (Unless it's removed). And it seems to ruin a lot of effort in Versus. I expect special infected players to rage quit if someone is revived. Perhaps if the special infected players found a defibrillator, they can use a Spitter to spit on it to prevent survivors to pick it up.

Boomer Bile, like people said, is a tier 2 pipe bomb. If you're a boomer, it sucks to be you if survivor's boomer bile cancels out your vomit, and instead is a weapon against you. Unless your vomit comes after the thrown boomer bile, then perhaps you can cancel their attack. To note, players can see the purple outline silhouette of special infected players under the effect of boomer bile, and probably see through walls. The Tank (And witch), most definitely, will get slowed down as the horde is attacking him. This would allow survivors to run around the Tank with ease, and I think this would be such a pain for special infected players. Unless other special infected players stops them such as the spitter blocking a pathway, or an upcoming charger, hunter, smoker, and so on.
The tanks should be able to kill more than one infected on each attack if this is the case (And Tanks would have to attack faster), otherwise Valve just utterly destroyed the purpose of the Tank. If there's a spitter vile in the full game or Left 4 Dead 3, then I'm going to facepalm.

Adrenaline injector temporary heals survivors by 25 (And perhaps 125% if on full health) that would gradually decrease, it keeps them immune to fatigue, and allows them to run faster. It helps survivors to deactivate crescendo events (As well as finales) faster like the one seen in the Left 4 Dead 2 demo on The Park in the Parish. This will also allow speed running, especially in Versus. In Left 4 Dead 1, usually players use their pills if their health is below 50 once they meet the Tank (Just to outrun him, that's it). On certain circumstances in Left 4 Dead 1, kill all 4 special infected players, then everyone runs straight through the level as the special infected players waits to respawn (The same goes for outrunning the Tank). And as survivors keep running, spawning special infected would either catch up, or have a smoker pull one survivor back. With the Adrenaline injector/syringe, it makes that strategy even easier for the players with it.


Oh, and by balance, I mean players who knows how to play the game, I don't mean casually. Casual players may find themselves wtfpwned or balanced in versus, and ragequits; skilled and longtime players earns the habit of exploits and methods (Such as the 25 damage pounce, shooting through walls, shortcuts) to win. These new weapons, and toys are fun, but imbalanced. Definitely imbalanced.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 31 2009, 9:38 am by KrayZee.

It does not look like you talked about the new Melee weapons like the chainsaw and the frying pan

Anyone rather have a crowbar?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 31 2009, 5:13 am by MasterJohnny.

I did.

I've seen a couple of Left 4 Dead 2 demos, and the Magnum is insanely accurate, and is noted by the player (The recoil doesn't affect the player at all, and you won't miss a shot on a big target like the Tank), even when you are incapacitated (That means you can dole out damage sufficient enough after the Tank incapacitates you). It does a little more 2x damage of one standard pistol, and has 8/∞ ammo.

You're also better off with a Magnum than a melee weapon due to its instant kill on common infected, and because of its range.

With the adrenaline injector, you can go Road Runner and say "Meep meep" to Mr. Tank AKA Wile E. Coyote; have a Survivor using a melee weapon behind the Tank, and run away while the Tank faces the survivor who would by now, use adrenaline to run away. Hell, throw a Molotov (Or shoot fire bullets) at the Tank, then throw a boomer bile after to slow him down, and blinding him in the process. Which ironically, if the AI Tank runs faster while on fire, he will slow down based on common infected attacking him. Then have a Combat / Tactical Shotgun to drain his health even faster while taking advantage of his speed. If the Tank is still alive after your horde calling boomer bile is gone, someone with a Grenade Launcher or explosive bullets can slow the Tank down even moar.

With the new and improved 30 ammo, accurate Sniper Rifle, be hopeful to deal out more damage at long range against the Tank. Supplies scattered in the levels are far more abundant, and weapons appear constantly (And lack of rarity) in Left 4 Dead 2 than it was in Left 4 Dead 1. Expect plenty of first aid kits coming in pairs than by itself if not spawned at first aid stations (Which would have first aid kits come in pairs, threes, or fours), and in some occasions, a defibrillator.



Edit: Okay, I played the demo through a free access in another steam account. The musical theme on Left 4 Dead 2 sounds more movie action oriented, Southern style (And also style from black people stereotypically according to what I've heard from Uncle Phil and Tara) than the creepy piano score of Left 4 Dead 1. And the Left 4 Dead 2 demo is a lot shorter than the original Left 4 Dead demo.

Seeing how there's fatigue for mouse2 melee (And can be trouble against a horde), I earned the habit of switching to the melee weapon if I want to melee (And it was hard to find any gameplay difference between a nightstick, frying pan, guitar, and a machete). But if there's a Magnum, I'll use that weapon the entire game until against the Tank (But I'll end up using the magnum anyways). The Tank was pathetically easy to kill, with or without the new weapons. Tank can spawn on Chapter 1 around the kitchen area, and tier 1 shotguns and SMGs were enough to take him down in Advanced. The only parts that were kicking my ass a bit were the new special infected until I got used to them. Jockeys steering you away from your teammates irritated me (And that's a good thing). The old and new special infected are fine, but the Tank... Zzz. Walking witches are just easier than a camping witch, and I can hear a walking witch a mile away because of her echo.

Boomer Bile + Molotov Cocktail = Really cheap, but fun to look at.

There's replayability, thankfully. One playthrough, you can go through the pathway, but on another playthrough, a brick wall was added.

Edit: There's a lot of frying pans, second comes guitars (Who knew that there are so many "electric" guitars out in the zombie apocalypse?), third comes nightstick, then machete. Personally, the nightstick and the machete are better melee weapons if you want to kill common infected fast. A standard pistol, or dual whenever someone drops their pistol for a melee weapon in the beginning of the game, is more effective against the special infected which are the melee weapon's main weakness. Regardless of melee weapons, I always ended up with the magnum (It's a beast).

Sniper Rifle has a reasonable length of reload time, but you shouldn't have the OCD of reloading this weapon constantly if you want to use it cheaply.
Combat Rifle is nice, effective, and conserves ammo; I like it.
Ak47 is actually rare... but it rapes the Tank.

In the demo, the level design is odd, because it feels really tight, short, and too narrow. The alarmed car is literally too close to the safe room, and the kitchen exit. I'm assuming the level design is to help the special infected be more effective. You may find yourself stepping on spit based on how narrow the pathways are.

And random people really like to mess around with the Jukebox.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Nov 2 2009, 11:55 am by KrayZee.

EDIT: Someone went and posted the statistics for weapons. http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1013160
The Magnum has a better DPS than a single pistol, but not dual. When you're incapped, the slowed rate of fire will probably cause the Magnum to win out for DPS. So you trade off for DPS alive and well and DPS incapped + common infected instakill.
The Silenced SMG apparently does more damage than the regular but is less accurate. Not sure how they figured that one out. Maybe the developers reversed them and didn't notice.
Friendly fire damage was reduced quite a bit. Well, for expert where it's most noticable anyway.
The AK does more damage than the M16/SCAR but is slightly less accruate and has a smaller clip. Matter of preference, IMO.
IMO, the Shotguns are more redundant than the machine guns. Can't decide if the Chrome Shotgun / Pump Shotgun or Auto Shotgun / SPAS-12 overlap is worse, though.
The Sniper Rifle is, according to the numbers, the same as the Hunting Rifle except it takes a quarter of a second longer to reload and has double the clip size. Easy decision there.

Yeah, I picked up a Rifle that didn't have horrible moving accuracy and assumed that must have been the Sniper Rifle. Then I saw 15 bullets... this is the Hunting Rifle! The Sniper Rifle is even better. (if only because it has double ammunition, I really played to get through and not to test and measure everything) Hopefully people won't get kicked by their team for picking either one up, like it was with the Hunting Rifle sometimes in L4D1.

All true, and I miss the old music. (can't tell you how many times I would sit in the first safe room (well, not always a safe room, but you know) past ~37 seconds to hear the cool themes) I'm assuming that there are different styles to fit each campaign.
Also, wow, the Parish is during the daytime and really bright. Between this, the music, the attitude of the survivors... I don't really feel the horror atmosphere anymore. I can say I prefer the L4D1 atmosphere to the of The Parish campaign.

The addition of melee fatigue to campaign makes me wonder if Expert is actually possible now. But, I suppose it gives you a good incentive to trade off your sidearm for a melee weapon.

Different orders for me, but yeah, the campaign was littered.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 9 2009, 3:43 am by Mini Moose 2707.

So, I played the L4D2 demo yesterday. The weapons I got to use were the SMG, silenced SMG, normal pistols, frying pan, sniper rifle, SCAR, and AK-47. I gotta say, I didn't really notice a difference between the two SMGs. The AK-47 didn't really seem that OP, either, considering it's low firing rate, low accuracy, and relatively low clip size. The frying pan just sucked. I didn't get to use the sniper rifle or the SCAR much, but I did like how moving didn't really do much to the sniper rifle's accuracy.

In terms of map design, I don't really like how narrow everything is. For example, the beginning of the second level, where the saferoom opens up into one of the widest areas in the demo, is tiny. There's too many cramped little alleyways, and they even managed to make the park feel congested with that hedge. It needs contrast.

In terms of the music, DEFINITELY not as creepy. The Louisiana swing style is good for the literal setting, but it just comes across as kind of stupid. It's a zombie apocalypse, not a crawdad-fry. I hope the atmosphere in the other campaigns is better.

That's bad, and it means the Sniper Rifle is rigged. That, more damage, and double the clip size of a Hunting Rifle, is clearly an overpowered imbalanced weapon, especially at versus. That max clip size for a sniper rifle in video games (Aside from Counter Strike) should be ten.

You shouldn't even be using a melee weapon on expert, and it's still possible to finish expert even with melee fatigue.

EDIT: I conclude that Left 4 Dead 2 is easier than Left 4 Dead 1 on Expert. The only things that made it harder are the dumb players getting themselves killed, being useless or friendly firing, and Jockeys (They can slash you right after you remove them from survivors). You should only use the melee weapon if one on one against an infected, obviously not a horde.
There are available first aid kits on Expert scattered throughout the levels in Left 4 Dead 2, as that opposes Left 4 Dead 1's "no first aid kit" Expert except the Death Toll 5. Defibrillators are a bit useless since there are rescue closets, but overpowered in Versus.
The Tank is really pathetic even without a Molotov Cocktail setting him on fire. A single bile bomb just freezes the Tank when the horde surrounds him, sigh. AI Director is a pussy this time.
On weapon spawns, they are really littered in Left 4 Dead 2 opposing to one table of three weapons in a single level in Left 4 Dead 1. The Hunting Rifle's recoil is shorter than the one from the original game.

What isn't seen in the demo such as the Grenade Launcher, and new ammo types will only make life easier for me, seeing how I could care less about my first aid kits and eventually find a pair of them along the way, and another pair later on. I also note that I played Expert a lot on the Left 4 Dead 2 demo, and I see the lack of Tank spawning and probably only occurred to me every 1 out of 5 games or so.

A new item "fireworks" exclusively in Dark Carnival will be in the game as well. And the laser sight, as mentioned somewhere, that they increase accuracy, which I rather find pointless and even more overpowered.

Jockeys are dicks, but at least they allow the game to be challenging. Spitters only make the game challenging if they spit acid on incapacitated players. Chargers are like bulls, because you can just sidestep to avoid his charge. I do not necessarily find them game changing, unless the crescendo events keeps players camping in a corner, not making them run in a group and deactivate an alarm.

The Survivors are clearly overpowered, unless your teammates suck and scatter around like idiots, shooting the smoker and not melee the constricted survivor, and so on. What's pretty cool about the survivors in Left 4 Dead 2 is that if they die, they animate and fall down to death instead of a rag doll death and disappear like in Left 4 Dead 1; the purpose being is the use of the defibrillator to revive them. What's a nice nerf is the amount of ammo reserve for the shotguns, and the melee fatigue. All of the new weapons except SCAR/Combat Rifle are either redundant or overpowered. There's only three types of melee weapons: Fast, Slow, and Chainsaw. That's it.

For the survivors, I honestly hate Tara/Rochelle's ear bleeding scream when she's incapacitated, while I find Zoey's scream 'natural' and far more comfortable. Redneck Scout really needs to STFU every time The Parish 2 starts, but at least one of the other three tells him to shut up.

Anything lulz I had from playing L4D2 is shooting an infected's crotch, and it bleeds on the incapacitated survivors; ripping out breasts is quite brutal though.

I'm hoping that I can use the Realism settings to allow myself make it more challenging. If not, I would rather stick to Left 4 Dead 1's expert than Left 4 Dead 2's expert. But really, I am disappointed; all of this could easily be free downloadable content. Any reason if a DLC should be priced would be the survivors due to the amount of voice acting of a new survivor they had to do, and those characters are the only excuse to have a price tag. But no, I will not pay for Uncle Phil, Tara, or Redneck Scout.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Nov 14 2009, 8:53 am by KrayZee.

I made a topic on Steam about this, and I want to facepalm. A response is either: "Shut up", "Troll", "Fail", and "Play Realism" then an attempt to have my topic locked. The only legitimate rebuttals were the "accuracies" of the shotguns and such.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1025715


Well, we can expect a Left 4 Dead 3 to further imbalance the game. Oh well.

Lol, FAKs on Expert. Though there were a couple more guaranteed ones in L4D1. (like one outside an ambulance in No Mercy) (Actually, maybe those two spots were the only places.)

That's just silly.

I would tend to think it increases accuracy by "I see a laser dot on the enemy, so I should shoot", not actually shrinking the targeting reticle to make the weapon more accurate. IE, it would increase player accuracy, not weapon accuracy.

I dunno, they do a lot more damage than I expected. I guess we'll have to see how they're used... I think they'll have more potential with humans in control.

Yes yes yes. All the randomization in the dialogue and he gives that goddamn speech 90% of the time.