You have the problem of being defensive and overreacting. It's not even your map. I can see where people might have issues with fritfrat, but don't draw me into this little feud. Go back and read Unholy's post and then read mine. If my intentions are still lost on you then screw you too cuz ur just as nubby as frit and norm.
It's the nubby comment to which i was refering. There is no need for degrading someone like that. This is what all the little kids on bnet resort to and it need not be here.
If you take offense to being called a nub then that's your problem especially when I made it clear I wasn't being serious.
I wasn't even referring to the maps in my first post. My comment was about the fact that someone suggested an SC monopoly version when I have been suggesting that to Norm and fritfrat for a while. I was calling them nubs in jest. Maybe if I added the stupid
smiley you'd get the point.
Basically you're just defending the release of a mediocre product and commending the creator on his "effort" rather than the finished result. It's sad that you're overlooking its obvious flaws just because of what went into its production. Ironically, you tell fritfrat to make a perfect monopoly which is precisely what he's doing. And maybe you didn't know this, but perfection takes time.
It's mediocre because he left out a few things that would have taken him prolly twice as long as his original project? That makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense.
Side note- i know what frat is doing i also know its taken him 2 years im sorry perfection doesn't take that long. Thats procrastination not perfection.
Not every eats, breathes, and lives for Starcraft and I can easily see making a perfect monopoly map taking that long. If a 2 year time scale is too long for you to comprehend then you should look at the fact that right now there's a 1 year RPG mapmaking contest going on.
Let's make an analogy using Blizzard. They take as much time as they need to make their games perfect. If they suddenly released SC2 early and incomplete we wouldn't be saying, "oh look the game sucks, but that doesn't matter because Blizzard has been working on this for years." From Blizzard, creators of very high quality games, we expect the best even if they take as much time as they need to do it.
On the other hand there are those game companies that just create games as soon as possible to cash in on some recent fad or movie release. I'm sure their games have effort put into them, but it doesn't change the fact that the products suck. They just try to ride the popularity and hype surrounding what they're making the game around.
Of course either type of mapmaker will have a following. The Blizzard type will get followers that appreciate high quality games while the Electronic Arts type will satisfy the generally stupid battle.net public who enjoy simplistic defenses. Both types can be called successful and accomplished, but in their own ways.
There is no comparison between blizard and starcraft maps i'm sorry they are much more detailed than any game every created on starcraft will be thats why it takes them years. The reasons it takes people so long to produce quality works on starcraft is 1. they are usually alone 2. they have jobs, life, ect. 3. they procrastinate (not getting paid for it and its not something that has to be done)
The difference between norm and fritfrat is norms is actually playable. Granted not everyone is gona like it but this is for constructive critisim not game bashing. This is to allow people the chance to see how to make a game better the next time they create a map or in future versions. If you don't wana play it then don't. If you don't like it keep that to yourself. If you wana help produce change then make suggestions not insults.
and if you've got any further gripe send me a pm so we quit wasting space. i'll do the same.
First of all, I haven't even been bashing his map. It's a fact that the map is not up to its true potential. Even though it's "playable" it still goes back to my Blizzard vs EA example. I'm sure Blizzard could have released SC2 by now and call it "playable" but there's a difference between being playable and being perfect. My analogy is not for comparing the method by which maps and actual games are produced because obviously they're different. I'm not even comparing the time it takes to make an sc map vs an actual game. The point is that there are people and companies that take their time to produce things that are perfect and then there are those that just produce things and release them when they are "playable" and let the hype and novelty of the product carry it rather than the actual quality of it.
Also note that I'm just highlighting a difference that exists. I'm not criticizing either side. There are those who enjoy things as long as they are playable and then there are those that prefer more quality. Just by releasing a monopoly map, even if it's barely functional, a mapmaker would get considerable recognition mainly because of the fact that it hasn't been done before. But that shouldn't be an excuse to overlook any flaws it might have.
You guys are clearly taking fritfrat's comments too harshly. What he's saying is perfectly sensible and reasonable criticism.
I ask of you; why cut yourself short? When I first saw your map I was pleased that you were doing a great job. Doing a great job doesn't count for anything, though, if you stop before the finish line.
On a personal note, I don't care about thunder (I didn't have any for you to steal), and I didn't adopt any of your systems.
I am just trying to push you for you to see excellence in what you do and to make a better map. I recognize the time you spent into the map, and I think you've made astonishing progress, and it would just be great if you could put in that little bit of extra time that a lot of people don't to make what you made excellent.
I'm sorry if I insulted you. Your monopoly isn't horrible, but unfinished, and I still look forward to seeing the final product.
If you still won't accept the Blizzard vs EA analogy then I'll make a different comparison to restaurants. I'm sure you can see there's a difference between a fast food restaurant like McDonald's vs a five star restaurant. Neither type of restaurant is really bad. They just have different goals and objectives. A McDonald's goal is to quickly satisfy as many people as possible while an actual restaurant is about the dining experience and high quality food. There are those that may even prefer eating fast food. There's a difference in the quality of food though, but they're meant to target different people's preferences. If I had to put Norm in the category of a restaurant I would label him as a fast casual restaurant. Doesn't offer the full table service but has higher quality food than the fast food restaurant.
Also, Norm already stated his intentions with the map and it only proves my point. It's just a playable monopoly map that's meant to satisfy the noobs and b.net public.
This map intends to be readily accessible to any B.net noob, or person familiar with the basics of monopoly. It's fun to me, and many other people enjoy it, so let it go.
Criticism is something everyone has to deal with, but that doesn't mean it's "hating on a map". Criticism is good and all the criticism here has been justified.
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Apr 25 2009, 12:14 pm by Urine.
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