Warcraft 3 and WoW are cow dooky.

Warcraft 3 and WoW are cow dooky.

The millions of people who play it don't think so.

The millions of people who play it don't think so.

[quote=frazz]Kellimus: It is the other way around. Yoshi is arguing and you're being a troll. He even answered some of your more silly statements in an amazingly polite way (I could NOT have done it that well). Conversely, you don't even bother to answer his arguments and continue to call him a troll. [insert thumbs down smiley] [QUOTE=Yoshi Da Sniper] The videos they release constantly have it. "My tanks got raped by these new toss units, BUT NOW LETS BRING IN SOME REAPERS TO RAPE THEM!". It seems like some units overpower other units by design.[/QUOTE] I'm sure the videos weren't meant to simulate actual game play. These sorts of strategies are present even in our SC. Example: Zealots own sunkens, if the sunkens are by themselves. Similarly, the new Toss unit owns Tanks, if they're by themselves. Add in Reapers, and you have a significantly more formidable defense. Example: Throw in some hydras and zerglings, and the sunkens are able to do a lot more. However, if the first video Blizzard showed replicated an intense quick paced complex battle, it would be too confusing to fully appreciate all the unit abilities and stuff. In short, the videos are exhibitions, not games. :)[/quote] You think anyone with a different opinion than you is a troll, so kindly be quiet and don't sway the subject away from SCII. Thanks. [quote=frazz]The millions of people who play it don't think so.[/quote] Cause they're addicted to it like a crackhead is to crack. In my opinion, to base the whole game off of videos that are being made during the production phase and [i]assume[/i] that is the way its going to be is pretty rediculous. Chui. makes a good point (yet again :|)

Quote from frazz

Kellimus: It is the other way around. Yoshi is arguing and you're being a troll. He even answered some of your more silly statements in an amazingly polite way (I could NOT have done it that well). Conversely, you don't even bother to answer his arguments and continue to call him a troll. [insert thumbs down smiley]

Quote from Yoshi Da Sniper

The videos they release constantly have it. "My tanks got raped by these new toss units, BUT NOW LETS BRING IN SOME REAPERS TO RAPE THEM!". It seems like some units overpower other units by design.

I'm sure the videos weren't meant to simulate actual game play. These sorts of strategies are present even in our SC.
Example: Zealots own sunkens, if the sunkens are by themselves.
Similarly, the new Toss unit owns Tanks, if they're by themselves. Add in Reapers, and you have a significantly more formidable defense.
Example: Throw in some hydras and zerglings, and the sunkens are able to do a lot more.

However, if the first video Blizzard showed replicated an intense quick paced complex battle, it would be too confusing to fully appreciate all the unit abilities and stuff.

In short, the videos are exhibitions, not games.

You think anyone with a different opinion than you is a troll, so kindly be quiet and don't sway the subject away from SCII.

Thanks.

Quote from frazz

The millions of people who play it don't think so.

Cause they're addicted to it like a crackhead is to crack.


In my opinion, to base the whole game off of videos that are being made during the production phase and assume that is the way its going to be is pretty rediculous. Chui. makes a good point (yet again )

[quote=Kellimus]In my opinion, to base the whole game off of videos that are being made during the production phase and [i]assume[/i] that is the way its going to be is pretty rediculous. Chui. makes a good point (yet again :|)[/quote] Wow, how original. That's brilliant, I'm sure nobody's ever even thought of that before. [QUOTE=frazz from page 1]Look, guys. The units in the trailers were presented as such to emphasize specific uses. Obviously balancing will occur.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=R.I.S.K from page 2]i would like to point out that unit-to-unit battles rarely happen in actual starcraft. its all about unit combos. also, the unit-to-unit examples in the videos were exaggerated simply to show off the units.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=frazz from the post Kellimus just quoted]I'm sure the videos weren't meant to simulate actual game play.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kellimus]You think anyone with a different opinion than you is a troll, so kindly be quiet and don't sway the subject away from SCII. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Kellimus, your idiocy is incredible. Have you ever noticed how nobody seems to agree with you? Have you ever noticed how you're always called a troll, and the people you call trolls are generally called so only by you? Have you ever noticed how you're generally the first one to start throwing around insults, or bring in vulgar language? Well, I have, and I'm getting tired of it. Now, proceed to say I have no life, call me a troll, call me an idiot, ignore my actual arguments and start throwing in foul language, or think of a new way to troll without doing any of the aforementioned things. Please, I can't wait.

Quote from Kellimus

In my opinion, to base the whole game off of videos that are being made during the production phase and assume that is the way its going to be is pretty rediculous. Chui. makes a good point (yet again )

Wow, how original. That's brilliant, I'm sure nobody's ever even thought of that before.

Quote from frazz from page 1

Look, guys. The units in the trailers were presented as such to emphasize specific uses. Obviously balancing will occur.

Quote from R.I.S.K from page 2

i would like to point out that unit-to-unit battles rarely happen in actual starcraft. its all about unit combos. also, the unit-to-unit examples in the videos were exaggerated simply to show off the units.

Quote from frazz from the post Kellimus just quoted

I'm sure the videos weren't meant to simulate actual game play.

Quote from Kellimus

You think anyone with a different opinion than you is a troll, so kindly be quiet and don't sway the subject away from SCII.

Thanks.

Kellimus, your idiocy is incredible. Have you ever noticed how nobody seems to agree with you? Have you ever noticed how you're always called a troll, and the people you call trolls are generally called so only by you? Have you ever noticed how you're generally the first one to start throwing around insults, or bring in vulgar language? Well, I have, and I'm getting tired of it.

Now, proceed to say I have no life, call me a troll, call me an idiot, ignore my actual arguments and start throwing in foul language, or think of a new way to troll without doing any of the aforementioned things. Please, I can't wait.

[quote=frazz]The millions of people who play it don't think so.[/quote] People will buy or play anything that has been hyped. If I went around town screaming "TRASNSFORMERS WAS THE BEST FUCKING MOVIE EVER" I guarantee you someone would go see it just because I said that. I've played several MMO's and as far as WoW goes, I consider it one of the worst (nothing can beat Runescape). For the record, I hated Transformers. "Hey lets take yet another idea from the 80's and turn it into a cliché action movie." EDIT: Also, like Kellimus pointed out, many people easily get addicted to MMO's because theres always [i]always[/i] something that you can do to further your character in the game.

Quote from frazz

The millions of people who play it don't think so.

People will buy or play anything that has been hyped. If I went around town screaming "TRASNSFORMERS WAS THE BEST FUCKING MOVIE EVER" I guarantee you someone would go see it just because I said that.

I've played several MMO's and as far as WoW goes, I consider it one of the worst (nothing can beat Runescape).

For the record, I hated Transformers. "Hey lets take yet another idea from the 80's and turn it into a cliché action movie."

EDIT: Also, like Kellimus pointed out, many people easily get addicted to MMO's because theres always always something that you can do to further your character in the game.

[quote=R.I.S.K]actually, in starcraft, it comes down to the unit with the best average of DPS, HP, PRODUCTION TIME, and VERSATILITY (can it attack both air and ground? how fast is it? what abilities does it have?) the only problem is, blizzard, being so good at balancing, basically made every unit hindered in at least one of those categories, thus making it impossible to tell which unit is the best unit in the game. also, its nigh impossible to average those things, because they are so unrelated to each other. its like trying to average out bananas and computer resolutions... it just doesn't work. skill does play a major role in starcraft, but the above is slightly more important than skill, assuming all the players know the basic-intermediate concepts and methods of the game.[/quote] ... I'm going to make a figure of merit equation for Starcraft units. [B][i]FoM[/i] = ([i]dhv[/i])/([i]tc[/i])[/B] Where [i]d[/i] is damage per second, [i]h[/i] is health, [i]v[/i] is versatility on a scale of 1 to 5, [i]t[/i] is production time, and [i]c[/i] is the sum of the cost in minerals and the cost in gas. Now go find the best unit in the game. :P

Quote from R.I.S.K

actually, in starcraft, it comes down to the unit with the best average of DPS, HP, PRODUCTION TIME, and VERSATILITY (can it attack both air and ground? how fast is it? what abilities does it have?) the only problem is, blizzard, being so good at balancing, basically made every unit hindered in at least one of those categories, thus making it impossible to tell which unit is the best unit in the game. also, its nigh impossible to average those things, because they are so unrelated to each other. its like trying to average out bananas and computer resolutions... it just doesn't work.

skill does play a major role in starcraft, but the above is slightly more important than skill, assuming all the players know the basic-intermediate concepts and methods of the game.

... I'm going to make a figure of merit equation for Starcraft units. FoM = (dhv)/(tc)
Where d is damage per second, h is health, v is versatility on a scale of 1 to 5, t is production time, and c is the sum of the cost in minerals and the cost in gas. Now go find the best unit in the game.

FE: If you truly analyzed that, down to the very best accuracy, I think you would find that most units are more or less the same. Not that it's of any use or anything. chui: I consider anything that gets Blizzard hundreds of millions of dollars "gold" Furthermore, even if it was hype at first, hype alone won't get millions of people to pay 15 (or whatever) dollars a month for a game, even if it does get them to go see a movie. Finally, I've seen WoW, and I really don't think it's that bad. It's not something I'd pay monthly for, I don't even know if I'd play it for free; but it's a solid MMO, better than RS in some ways, worse perhaps in others. Even though YOU think a game sucks, does not mean it really does. That means I have to admit that WC3 really doesn't stink in all aspects (worse than SC though, IMO).

FE: If you truly analyzed that, down to the very best accuracy, I think you would find that most units are more or less the same. Not that it's of any use or anything.

chui: I consider anything that gets Blizzard hundreds of millions of dollars "gold"
Furthermore, even if it was hype at first, hype alone won't get millions of people to pay 15 (or whatever) dollars a month for a game, even if it does get them to go see a movie.
Finally, I've seen WoW, and I really don't think it's that bad. It's not something I'd pay monthly for, I don't even know if I'd play it for free; but it's a solid MMO, better than RS in some ways, worse perhaps in others. Even though YOU think a game sucks, does not mean it really does. That means I have to admit that WC3 really doesn't stink in all aspects (worse than SC though, IMO).

[quote=frazz][quote=Kellimus]In my opinion, to base the whole game off of videos that are being made during the production phase and [i]assume[/i] that is the way its going to be is pretty rediculous. Chui. makes a good point (yet again :|)[/quote] Wow, how original. That's brilliant, I'm sure nobody's ever even thought of that before. [QUOTE=frazz from page 1]Look, guys. The units in the trailers were presented as such to emphasize specific uses. Obviously balancing will occur.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=R.I.S.K from page 2]i would like to point out that unit-to-unit battles rarely happen in actual starcraft. its all about unit combos. also, the unit-to-unit examples in the videos were exaggerated simply to show off the units.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=frazz from the post Kellimus just quoted]I'm sure the videos weren't meant to simulate actual game play.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kellimus]You think anyone with a different opinion than you is a troll, so kindly be quiet and don't sway the subject away from SCII. Thanks. [/QUOTE] Kellimus, your idiocy is incredible. Have you ever noticed how nobody seems to agree with you? Have you ever noticed how you're always called a troll, and the people you call trolls are generally called so only by you? Have you ever noticed how you're generally the first one to start throwing around insults, or bring in vulgar language? Well, I have, and I'm getting tired of it. Now, proceed to say I have no life, call me a troll, call me an idiot, ignore my actual arguments and start throwing in foul language, or think of a new way to troll without doing any of the aforementioned things. Please, I can't wait.[/quote] My "idiocy is incredible" yet you're the one constantly and harshly attacking me? I'm sorry, but there actually are a lot of people here that agree with me they just don't publicly announce it, because they'll get flamed like you flame me. Trust me, I know this is fact because I've seen it before. So please, if you would refrain from continuously and constantly using the Ad Hominem Abusive, it would make this forum much better. Thanks :) P.S. Care to point out where I "said you have no life", called you "a troll", called you an "idiot", "ignored" your actual argument, or "came up with a new way to troll"? I'm pretty sure you can't, sorry. [quote=frazz]FE: If you truly analyzed that, down to the very best accuracy, I think you would find that most units are more or less the same. Not that it's of any use or anything. chui: I consider anything that gets Blizzard hundreds of millions of dollars "gold" Furthermore, even if it was hype at first, hype alone won't get millions of people to pay 15 (or whatever) dollars a month for a game, even if it does get them to go see a movie. Finally, I've seen WoW, and I really don't think it's that bad. It's not something I'd pay monthly for, I don't even know if I'd play it for free; but it's a solid MMO, better than RS in some ways, worse perhaps in others. Even though YOU think a game sucks, does not mean it really does. That means I have to admit that WC3 really doesn't stink in all aspects (worse than SC though, IMO).[/quote] How can you not get the point that FE is getting? Listen to your own response [i]carefully[/i]. Keep going..... Some more..... Oh, there it is! [quote=frazz]FE: If you truly analyzed that, down to the very best accuracy, I think you would find that most units are more or less the same. Not that it's of any use or anything.[/quote] Now lets see... Isn't that the main question of the thread? Wether or not SCII will be balanced or not? How is that not any use or anything? Do you understand Programming Concepts? I bet you money that Blizzard sat down and came up with a formula just like that, or similar to, waaaaaaay before they started production of SCII. Hmm... Care to troll me now frazz, because of my different opinion? ;)

Quote from frazz

Quote from Kellimus

In my opinion, to base the whole game off of videos that are being made during the production phase and assume that is the way its going to be is pretty rediculous. Chui. makes a good point (yet again )

Wow, how original. That's brilliant, I'm sure nobody's ever even thought of that before.

Quote from frazz from page 1

Look, guys. The units in the trailers were presented as such to emphasize specific uses. Obviously balancing will occur.

Quote from R.I.S.K from page 2

i would like to point out that unit-to-unit battles rarely happen in actual starcraft. its all about unit combos. also, the unit-to-unit examples in the videos were exaggerated simply to show off the units.

Quote from frazz from the post Kellimus just quoted

I'm sure the videos weren't meant to simulate actual game play.

Quote from Kellimus

You think anyone with a different opinion than you is a troll, so kindly be quiet and don't sway the subject away from SCII.

Thanks.

Kellimus, your idiocy is incredible. Have you ever noticed how nobody seems to agree with you? Have you ever noticed how you're always called a troll, and the people you call trolls are generally called so only by you? Have you ever noticed how you're generally the first one to start throwing around insults, or bring in vulgar language? Well, I have, and I'm getting tired of it.

Now, proceed to say I have no life, call me a troll, call me an idiot, ignore my actual arguments and start throwing in foul language, or think of a new way to troll without doing any of the aforementioned things. Please, I can't wait.

My "idiocy is incredible" yet you're the one constantly and harshly attacking me? I'm sorry, but there actually are a lot of people here that agree with me they just don't publicly announce it, because they'll get flamed like you flame me. Trust me, I know this is fact because I've seen it before.

So please, if you would refrain from continuously and constantly using the Ad Hominem Abusive, it would make this forum much better.

Thanks

P.S. Care to point out where I "said you have no life", called you "a troll", called you an "idiot", "ignored" your actual argument, or "came up with a new way to troll"?

I'm pretty sure you can't, sorry.

Quote from frazz

FE: If you truly analyzed that, down to the very best accuracy, I think you would find that most units are more or less the same. Not that it's of any use or anything.

chui: I consider anything that gets Blizzard hundreds of millions of dollars "gold"
Furthermore, even if it was hype at first, hype alone won't get millions of people to pay 15 (or whatever) dollars a month for a game, even if it does get them to go see a movie.
Finally, I've seen WoW, and I really don't think it's that bad. It's not something I'd pay monthly for, I don't even know if I'd play it for free; but it's a solid MMO, better than RS in some ways, worse perhaps in others. Even though YOU think a game sucks, does not mean it really does. That means I have to admit that WC3 really doesn't stink in all aspects (worse than SC though, IMO).

How can you not get the point that FE is getting?

Listen to your own response carefully.

Keep going.....



Some more.....

Oh, there it is!

Quote from frazz

FE: If you truly analyzed that, down to the very best accuracy, I think you would find that most units are more or less the same. Not that it's of any use or anything.

Now lets see... Isn't that the main question of the thread? Wether or not SCII will be balanced or not?

How is that not any use or anything?

Do you understand Programming Concepts?

I bet you money that Blizzard sat down and came up with a formula just like that, or similar to, waaaaaaay before they started production of SCII.



Hmm... Care to troll me now frazz, because of my different opinion?

[QUOTE=Kellimus]P.S. Care to point out where I "said you have no life", called you "a troll", called you an "idiot", "ignored" your actual argument, or "came up with a new way to troll"?[/QUOTE] Ignoring arguments and getting straight to personal attacks is your specialty, any random post of yours probably has a 1/4 chance of fitting that description. About the no life thing... [QUOTE=Kellimus from Tazzy's melee topic]Well, you probibly can now days. But back when I was 14, I highly doubt it (I'm 20 now, btw) Mainly because [B]I have a life[/B], and have lost interest in Starcraft. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kellims from the same]And I am a jerk. I could care less about you, or anyone else on this board really (except my friends on here). I come to see what new bugs have come out, due to [B]people with no lives[/B], discuss certain mundain things, philosophish, and critique maps and give some ideas.[/QUOTE] Again, any random post of yours has (by my estimation) at least a 30% chance of doing at least one of the aforementioned things. Anyway Kellimus, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else. You need to insult people to feel good about yourself, I understand that. However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me.

Quote from Kellimus

P.S. Care to point out where I "said you have no life", called you "a troll", called you an "idiot", "ignored" your actual argument, or "came up with a new way to troll"?

Ignoring arguments and getting straight to personal attacks is your specialty, any random post of yours probably has a 1/4 chance of fitting that description.
About the no life thing...

Quote from Kellimus from Tazzy's melee topic

Well, you probibly can now days. But back when I was 14, I highly doubt it (I'm 20 now, btw)

Mainly because I have a life, and have lost interest in Starcraft.

Quote from Kellims from the same

And I am a jerk. I could care less about you, or anyone else on this board really (except my friends on here). I come to see what new bugs have come out, due to people with no lives, discuss certain mundain things, philosophish, and critique maps and give some ideas.

Again, any random post of yours has (by my estimation) at least a 30% chance of doing at least one of the aforementioned things.

Anyway Kellimus, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else. You need to insult people to feel good about yourself, I understand that. However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me.

Redid my Figure of Merit equation after Syphon told me he didn't like how subjective the term [i]v[/i] is. [b][i]FoM[/i] = [i]dhrsv(a+1)fn[/i]/[i]tc[/i][/b] All the same terms, but [i]r[/i] is weapon range, [i]s[/i] is movement speed, [i]v[/i] is vision range, [i]a[/i] is number of abilities, [i]f[/i] is whether or not it's an air unit (its value is one for a ground unit, 1.5 for an air unit), and [i]n[/i] is the number of attack types (remove this term for units with no attack).

Redid my Figure of Merit equation after Syphon told me he didn't like how subjective the term v is.

FoM = dhrsv(a+1)fn/tc

All the same terms, but r is weapon range, s is movement speed, v is vision range, a is number of abilities, f is whether or not it's an air unit (its value is one for a ground unit, 1.5 for an air unit), and n is the number of attack types (remove this term for units with no attack).

Keep in mind quality of abilities, not just quantity (most have three anyway). Also, I don't think air should matter, both air and ground units have pluses and minuses. Maybe a small addition, but 50 % seems like too much to me.

Keep in mind quality of abilities, not just quantity (most have three anyway).
Also, I don't think air should matter, both air and ground units have pluses and minuses. Maybe a small addition, but 50 % seems like too much to me.

[quote=frazz][QUOTE=Kellimus]P.S. Care to point out where I "said you have no life", called you "a troll", called you an "idiot", "ignored" your actual argument, or "came up with a new way to troll"?[/QUOTE] Ignoring arguments and getting straight to personal attacks is your specialty, any random post of yours probably has a 1/4 chance of fitting that description. About the no life thing... [QUOTE=Kellimus from Tazzy's melee topic]Well, you probibly can now days. But back when I was 14, I highly doubt it (I'm 20 now, btw) Mainly because [B]I have a life[/B], and have lost interest in Starcraft. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Kellims from the same]And I am a jerk. I could care less about you, or anyone else on this board really (except my friends on here). I come to see what new bugs have come out, due to [B]people with no lives[/B], discuss certain mundain things, philosophish, and critique maps and give some ideas.[/QUOTE] Again, any random post of yours has (by my estimation) at least a 30% chance of doing at least one of the aforementioned things. Anyway Kellimus, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else. You need to insult people to feel good about yourself, I understand that. However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me.[/quote] Are you really trying that hard to provoke me into personally attacking you frazz? That's pretty sad, honestly.. But keep on going on and on about how [i]I'm[/i] the one doing "this and that" and [i]I'm[/i] the one doing "everything you say I do" Good job at keeping off topic to personally attack me frazz :D If stated (numerous of times) my opinions that HAVE TO DO with the thread's topic, and you continue to attack me? So, let me quote you: [quote=frazz]Anyway Kellimus, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else. You need to insult people to feel good about yourself, I understand that. However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me[/quote] "Anyways frazz, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else (oooo, good job at being a hypocrite :D) You need to insult people to feel good about yourself (care to provide more 'proof' then something I did [i]weeks[/i] ago?), I understand that (if you understood that, you'd know that isn't why I "insult" people on here, frazz) However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me" I typed exactly what you did, except put you in my place. Thanks for flaming me, and trying to provoke me into trolling you, Frazz :D Maybe if you'd think before you type, you'd realise that you're the only one personally attacking anyone in this thread. Good day :)

Quote from frazz

Quote from Kellimus

P.S. Care to point out where I "said you have no life", called you "a troll", called you an "idiot", "ignored" your actual argument, or "came up with a new way to troll"?

Ignoring arguments and getting straight to personal attacks is your specialty, any random post of yours probably has a 1/4 chance of fitting that description.
About the no life thing...

Quote from Kellimus from Tazzy's melee topic

Well, you probibly can now days. But back when I was 14, I highly doubt it (I'm 20 now, btw)

Mainly because I have a life, and have lost interest in Starcraft.

Quote from Kellims from the same

And I am a jerk. I could care less about you, or anyone else on this board really (except my friends on here). I come to see what new bugs have come out, due to people with no lives, discuss certain mundain things, philosophish, and critique maps and give some ideas.

Again, any random post of yours has (by my estimation) at least a 30% chance of doing at least one of the aforementioned things.

Anyway Kellimus, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else. You need to insult people to feel good about yourself, I understand that. However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me.

Are you really trying that hard to provoke me into personally attacking you frazz? That's pretty sad, honestly.. But keep on going on and on about how I'm the one doing "this and that" and I'm the one doing "everything you say I do"

Good job at keeping off topic to personally attack me frazz

If stated (numerous of times) my opinions that HAVE TO DO with the thread's topic, and you continue to attack me?

So, let me quote you:

Quote from frazz

Anyway Kellimus, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else. You need to insult people to feel good about yourself, I understand that. However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me

"Anyways frazz, I'm pretty dang tired of this. If you have something to say about the game, go ahead and say that, nothing else (oooo, good job at being a hypocrite ) You need to insult people to feel good about yourself (care to provide more 'proof' then something I did weeks ago?), I understand that (if you understood that, you'd know that isn't why I "insult" people on here, frazz) However, you're going to have to accept the self esteem loss if you expect another reply from me"

I typed exactly what you did, except put you in my place. Thanks for flaming me, and trying to provoke me into trolling you, Frazz

Maybe if you'd think before you type, you'd realise that you're the only one personally attacking anyone in this thread.

Good day

I'm not reading this whole thread, but it seems to me that it will work out fine, unless you're massing one unit.

I'm not reading this whole thread, but it seems to me that it will work out fine, unless you're massing one unit.

[quote=frazz]Keep in mind quality of abilities, not just quantity (most have three anyway). Also, I don't think air should matter, both air and ground units have pluses and minuses. Maybe a small addition, but 50 % seems like too much to me.[/quote] Well, air units can go over all terrain, so that's why it's in there. Besides, the figures of merit of each unit is relative to each other, I don't know what a good figure of merit is yet. Someone should go test this formula. :P

Quote from frazz

Keep in mind quality of abilities, not just quantity (most have three anyway).
Also, I don't think air should matter, both air and ground units have pluses and minuses. Maybe a small addition, but 50 % seems like too much to me.

Well, air units can go over all terrain, so that's why it's in there. Besides, the figures of merit of each unit is relative to each other, I don't know what a good figure of merit is yet. Someone should go test this formula.

We would probably fine tune it with basic units first. So... [B]F = rsdh/(tcR)[/B] Where r attack range, s is unit speed, d is damage per attack, h is health, t is build time, c is cost, and R is time to wait before attack plus a constant. I modified d and added in R to possible take into account that a fast attacking low damage is better than a slow attacking high damage unity. :D

We would probably fine tune it with basic units first. So...
F = rsdh/(tcR)
Where r attack range, s is unit speed, d is damage per attack, h is health, t is build time, c is cost, and R is time to wait before attack plus a constant. I modified d and added in R to possible take into account that a fast attacking low damage is better than a slow attacking high damage unity.

[quote=chui][quote=frazz]The millions of people who play it don't think so.[/quote] People will buy or play anything that has been hyped. If I went around town screaming "TRASNSFORMERS WAS THE BEST FUCKING MOVIE EVER" I guarantee you someone would go see it just because I said that. I've played several MMO's and as far as WoW goes, I consider it one of the worst (nothing can beat Runescape). For the record, I hated Transformers. "Hey lets take yet another idea from the 80's and turn it into a cliché action movie." EDIT: Also, like Kellimus pointed out, many people easily get addicted to MMO's because theres always [i]always[/i] something that you can do to further your character in the game.[/quote]Ermm, what are you talking about, I like both WC3 and WoW. But in all reality, both WC3 and WoW have aspects of the game that are appealing. Hyping a game up would make me consider buying the game, but it's been about 6+ years since Warcraft 3 has hit shelves... The same can be applied to WoW. Nobody's going to be paying $15 dollars a month for hype. It is not known as one of the most addicting games created because of reasons like hype.

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Quote from frazz

The millions of people who play it don't think so.

People will buy or play anything that has been hyped. If I went around town screaming "TRASNSFORMERS WAS THE BEST FUCKING MOVIE EVER" I guarantee you someone would go see it just because I said that.

I've played several MMO's and as far as WoW goes, I consider it one of the worst (nothing can beat Runescape).

For the record, I hated Transformers. "Hey lets take yet another idea from the 80's and turn it into a cliché action movie."

EDIT: Also, like Kellimus pointed out, many people easily get addicted to MMO's because theres always always something that you can do to further your character in the game.

Ermm, what are you talking about, I like both WC3 and WoW.
But in all reality, both WC3 and WoW have aspects of the game that are appealing. Hyping a game up would make me consider buying the game, but it's been about 6+ years since Warcraft 3 has hit shelves... The same can be applied to WoW. Nobody's going to be paying $15 dollars a month for hype. It is not known as one of the most addicting games created because of reasons like hype.

[quote=Me]EDIT: Also, like Kellimus pointed out, many people easily get addicted to MMO's because theres always always something that you can do to further your character in the game.[/quote] Also, ignorance plays a part in this also. Many people I met in WoW haven't played another MMO let alone know the differences between them. And when I find someone who claims they have played another one, they usually say its Guild Wars, which isn't an MMO, or FF11, which I hear from everyone is a terrible MMO (I've never had the chance to play it myself).

Quote from Me

EDIT: Also, like Kellimus pointed out, many people easily get addicted to MMO's because theres always always something that you can do to further your character in the game.

Also, ignorance plays a part in this also. Many people I met in WoW haven't played another MMO let alone know the differences between them. And when I find someone who claims they have played another one, they usually say its Guild Wars, which isn't an MMO, or FF11, which I hear from everyone is a terrible MMO (I've never had the chance to play it myself).

What MMO is better than WoW? Runescape? Most people don't think so. It might be more for the money (almost as much for less money), but WoW is really a better game, graphics wise and, well, that's about it.

What MMO is better than WoW? Runescape? Most people don't think so. It might be more for the money (almost as much for less money), but WoW is really a better game, graphics wise and, well, that's about it.

Ultima, Everquest (maybe not 1 but definitely 2), EVE Online, and hell I would consider Guild Wars better if I thought of it as an MMO. Its funny you bring up the very worst MMO ever made though, Runescape, why would you go comparing WoW to that if you never played anything else. Also, WoW is going to be losing tons of people to some of the new MMO's coming out like Warhammer and Tabula Rasa. Which, from I've seen so far because I haven't had a chance to play them yet, look way better. Oh and on the subject of graphics, WoW is one of the worst looking 3d MMO's.

Ultima, Everquest (maybe not 1 but definitely 2), EVE Online, and hell I would consider Guild Wars better if I thought of it as an MMO.

Its funny you bring up the very worst MMO ever made though, Runescape, why would you go comparing WoW to that if you never played anything else.

Also, WoW is going to be losing tons of people to some of the new MMO's coming out like Warhammer and Tabula Rasa. Which, from I've seen so far because I haven't had a chance to play them yet, look way better.

Oh and on the subject of graphics, WoW is one of the worst looking 3d MMO's.

I bring it up? [QUOTE=chui]I've played several MMO's and as far as WoW goes, I consider it one of the worst (nothing can beat Runescape).[/QUOTE] Anyway, what's your problem? You may think it sucks, but it's there and the point I was trying to make was that it get's Blizzard tons of money, which makes it not cow dooky. There may be better MMOs out there, but people still like it for one reason or another. The people I know that play it are addicted to it no more than a person would be addicted to Starcraft.

I bring it up?

Quote from chui

I've played several MMO's and as far as WoW goes, I consider it one of the worst (nothing can beat Runescape).

Anyway, what's your problem? You may think it sucks, but it's there and the point I was trying to make was that it get's Blizzard tons of money, which makes it not cow dooky. There may be better MMOs out there, but people still like it for one reason or another. The people I know that play it are addicted to it no more than a person would be addicted to Starcraft.