I'm a quasi-religious person. I believe in God, in a kind of abstract way, because I'm uncomfortable with the idea of a big uncaring, unthinking universe. I also see interconnection between things in an odd way, but that's not really what I'm talking about...

I'm not sure if this is too personal for the forum (perhaps you can relate), but here's a bit of what's going on with me:

I have never met my father. I have lived with my mother (that is a story in and of itself) essentially throughout my life. I recently found out about where my father lives. He lives in a nearby state, apparently with his mother on disability. My mom received a letter from him, where he stated he has a condition called Shy Dragger's Syndrome (a pervasive neurological disease). It begins with seemingly benign symptoms, and later results in such things as dementia, loss of bodily control, fluctuating blood pressure (which can cause frequent blackouts), and ultimately results in death. The average lifespan after diagnosis is only a couple of years, and only a small percent live even 12 years after it.

There is no cure for this syndrome, and the only likely outlet for a cure is research on stem cells. I'm not arguing about stem cells right now, you can feel free to do that.

My life doesn't feel very fair at all right now. Besides my own personal issues with gender and identity, I've never met my father, and he will likely die very soon. I might never meet him. I've even sent him a letter, which garnered no response (it's possible that he is no longer mentally or physically capable).

Life fucking sucks.

Well, im sorry to hear all of that.. really i am. Have you ever heard of the serenity prair? "God grant me the serenity to let go of the things i cannot change, the ability to change the things that i can, and the wisdom to know the difference." - just keep that with you. I am a stoic so I say, let it be, make the best of it. Life is just, but in an unfair way.

Fair? It's not like bad things happen to good people or vice versa; things just happen.

I'd say life is totally fair (no offense to you or the pain that you have received in life). Things happen by chance. I don't believe in a God here, so my argument is shaped around that, but try to work with me here, just for the purpose of this argument. Under my belief, there is no person above us picking and choosing favourites based on what we do. Things just happen based on where we happen to be or how we happen to be born. While it doesn't feel fair, I'd say it is because basically there are no favourites. Things just are. Somebody ends up with a rare genetic disease, it's not like that because they were an asshole, and it's not like that because they were a nice person, it's there just because that's how the metaphorical dice rolled. Life is random, and I like it that way.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 29 2008, 1:48 am by Dapperdan. Reason: Fixing post

You should really try to meet your father. If he dies before you meet him, I think there's a good chance you'd spend the rest of your life regretting it. While my dad was sick in the hospital (while I was a kid), I could never muster the courage to go talk to him. It was too hard on me to see him like that, and I just held on to the hope that he'd get better. He didn't, and I never got to say anything to him.

And of course life isn't fair. I've been saying that for ages. ;p

... Yeah. You're arguing that fairness is dictated by the chance that something happens, rather then by it happening. I strongly disagree with that. Life isn't fair.
If you were one of those African children starving that you see in the pictures I think you'd see things differently .


Honestly, I've been very lucky in life. The only thing I can say is that I think Doodan's right, and you should meet your dad.

Dear Centreri:
You're agruing with your definition of fair versus a different definition of fair. Understand that NerdyTerdy is defining his definition with his argument. His definition of fair is that of unbiased, neutral, no-favorites "chance" (we're all essentially equal in that regard). I say "chance" because things aren't truly random, as everything has a cause and effect, but the interconnecting relationships are so complex that we cannot grasp all the threads (try following a single ripple of water in a crowded swimming pool), and so lump the concept together as "chance". Your definition of fair seems to be (correct me if I'm wrong) that good should happen to good people, and bad should happen to bad people (karma, perhaps?), but since that does not always happen, that makes life unfair.

As for how he'd feel as an African child, your assumption on how he'd respond is irrelevent. Personally, it'd suck, and I'd do whatever I could to survive, but I don't believe in complaining (granted, my current beliefs would not be the same if I'd been born in that environment and not gained the experiences that lead to the formation of my beliefs). I would work with what I had, however crappy, because in the end that's all we can really do. Even eating mud to quell my starving, bloated stomach.

I sometimes feel like this is warping my soul. I just get really depressed and anrgy and lash out at everyone. I've tried running away, I've tried hiding and recluding from everyone.

Even though talking about it helps, it doesn't fix it. I've been ignoring it for awhile. Not thinking about it seems like an idiotic solution, though.

Devilesk, you are totally justified in your response, but this doesn't really belong in Null. I dunno. Probably too public a place, but I can't say I really care that much about personal security right now. Your response was really predictable, though.

I dunno. I've thought about killing myself, but I don't think I have the will power, or the negativity. It's weird, right now I'm just caught in between my future, that I can't touch, and my past holding me down. Taking any steps in any direction is so hard right now, particularly when there is so much I need to do and so much I want to do. I dunno. Talk about your problems if this is too selfish.

Agreed this should be in null cause it isn't really posing a specific argument.

As for the current argument;
I believe in God(LDS)
I believe in karma
I believe that life is all too fair

Because of my religious belief, I believe life is fair. Though i don't see it the way nerdy sees it... There's not some puppet master up in the heavens pulling our strings and giving aids to people he doesn't like, and and giving good luck and fortune to those he likes. I believe the purpose in life is to receive a body and ultimately be tested. In poker, people have a "tell", something that they only do under high stress situations. Now as we know, life is stressful. It is what we choose to do with our life, talents, and situations that show our true motives to God. Contrary to nerdy's beliefs, God doesn't just say, "ok this person is going to get diabetes, and this person is healthy, and oh this person draws the short stick, they're gonna have a life threatening event/disease." There is a deeper meaning behind it all, and I believe that just as mans ways are higher than animals ways, Gods ways are higher than ours(to kinda quote a scripture). Even if we don't fully understand Gods methods, God has given us all bodies, and for that we should be eternally grateful. Also, if you do something that is less than admirable, I believe karma kicks in. Sometime or another, you will have to pay for that. Similarly, if you do something deserving merit, you will get your just desserts.

If you don't believe in God then you probably aren't going to bite that argument lol. Even if you do believe in God you still might not like it because you believe in a "different God". That is simply the way I see it.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Aug 29 2008, 1:31 am by Jello-Jigglers.

This could go in Null, but I don't care. There's enough here for it to stay in Serious Discussion. And to be honest, I sympathize with you. I'm sure it feels like talking about it isn't helping, but it is. It's a step. It's better than nothing. Right now you're ready to talk about it, and maybe tomorrow or the next day or the next, you'll be able to do something about it.

I have a couple relevant poems of interest (at least I hope) that I've written which I'd like to post here. I'm not going to talk about religion, or prayer, or God, because I don't think that's the point here and probably won't accomplish anything. Maybe what I post won't help either, but I can only try. Even when things really suck, and I feel like shit, these two poems represent the outlook on life that I ultimately try to keep.

Undertow

Upon death shall mind die,
Upon hell shall earth sit,
Into heaven our angels go,
Leaving us, in the undertow.
With care we shall toe that line,
Over that hot bed of coals,
But onto hell the sinners go,
Leaving us, in the undertow.
No toll on my eyes shall I pay,
For in haste let us death forgo,
Yet in death let us smile,
For we are alive,
We are all alive.

Perfection

The perfect circle is not round.
The perfect square is scalene.
The perfect idea has its faults.
The perfect question holds no answers.
The perfect answer can be questioned.
To have a hindrance is to qualify for perfection.
The perfect world is in your eyes.

Worst comes to worst, keep putting devo hats on things. There's some type of strange power in that statement, isn't there?

My father was in a very similar situation to your situation - he never met his dad and his dad died (before his time) before my dad could meet him. My dad is a very good person though. Edit and yes like Doodan says my dad does regret not ever meeting his father.

I'm not sure how this relates but I just want to say that in contrast to my dad I don't believe in fairness or karma or that anything happens for a spiritual reason and my connection with a higher power is small.

So yeah basically my advice is that life is not fair, get over it.

To stop from getting depressed about things (like a few years ago my dad lost 300,000 dollars to some guy who screwed him out of it because my dad was too trusting and now my dad is being too trusting again and he screwed us out of 15,000 a couple months ago and now we have hardly any money, my dad is unemployed and the money they said they could pay me for my college is pretty much dead) is by looking it it from 2000 feet. I am this person who is an average middle-class person who recently his dad got screwed out of a huge amount of money. Bummer. It isn't the end of the world. All is not lost for me. Honestly I am feeling no depression right now (although my mom and brother and sister and dad ALL seriously are...).

I feel for you though man.

Edit and there is absolutely nothing wrong with you because of these things that have happened to you....

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Aug 29 2008, 5:43 am by Dapperdan. Reason: clarifying language

I agree with you Yam.

I haven't had the greatest experience in life lately either.

I'm sorry I don't have any advice to give, but I just wanted to make sure that you know I feel for you.

Chin up, mate.

I didn't ask what his definition of fair was. I stated what he's saying and said that I disagree with that definition. No need to 'explain' anything to me. As for my definition, that is incorrect. My definition of fair is simply everyone getting the same chances to do whatever they want.

As his response being irrelevant, not at all. I was simply stating that he's only in favor of such a random and cruel system of 'fair' because life dealt him kings. Therefore, he doesn't get the cruelty in such a system and insists its fair.

Even the immaterialistic, oh-so-altruistic you wouldn't call it fair when, after eating that mud, you see a magazine (or, hell, something) of some rich kid dining on whatever rich kids dine on.

Have you even considered anything more than online therapy? I'm not saying your crazy or in the least way psychiatric. I just have been reading over some of your previous posts, and it seems like you want to express something you feel deeper within. I've talked to counselors before, it's not a big deal. And the fact that you say you considered suicide but decided "nah, that really isn't for me", is a really good sign. Idk I'm not a counselor or anything, I just think it's worth a shot. You don't have to go like today per say, but don't simply throw this out the window, keep it in mind as you keep going. I think it could help you resolve some of the unresolved in your life. Good luck man, sen is pushing for you.

I would try and visit your father, and maybe take up some form of artwork, either text or visual, to express your emotions.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 29 2008, 4:19 pm by Dapperdan. Reason: Cleaning up post

Although I would hate to be in your position in life, TGY, so I say this with great sympathy..."Life isn't fair."

Hmmm well...

I'd say for you to keep your head up and look forward. Anyone can hold a grudge, bitterness, or sadness in their hearts but what truly tests the strength of one is his or her ability to stand strong and develop character. Like the others have mentioned life isn't fair, but what can you do about it? Sometimes things fall apart just so other things can fall together, but in the end, what's meant to be will always find its way. Everyone in this world is afraid of something, loves something, and has lost something. Not a single soul is exempt from this. I read this quote somewhere, but I really liked it: "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain." The best thing for you or anyone to do is to let it go and think positive. Don't run away from it, instead let it run through and past you. Thinking about it only makes it worse.

Just remember how lucky and blessed you are. I'm sure you have a mother who loves and cares for you deeply, which is truly a gift few people in this world have. You seem to love or I should say care about your father even though you've never met him. Some people out there don't even have a father or mother to love or care about. To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world. Some people never had that someone to hold onto, to run into their arms, or to talk and laugh together with. My advice would be for you to visit your father. It seems as though he thinks about you or wants to keep in touch if he still writes letters to you and your mom, and if I were in your father's position, nothing would make be happier than to see the face of my son who've I've never seen before just once.

I think it seems to me that your identity and your past seems to be holding you down making you feel as if you're lost, broken, and confused. Everyone is unique in his or her own way and will have several soft and sensitive spots. Issues like politics, religion, and culture are probably one of the top most sensitive subjects out there, but what's also up there is... you. Your buttons may be pushed, your gears may be grind but sometimes you gotta get fucked up to feel sober, cry to see clear, and fall one hundred times to learn how to pick yourself back up. You cannot change the past, what really matters is the future and you have the power to do what you want with it.


When life gives you a hundred reasons to cry, show that you have a thousand reasons to smile. Love the life you live. Live the life you love.

"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain."

That is one of the coolest and most amazing quotes I have ever heard.

I prefer Mills quote.

I actually have had a lot of therapy in my time, and still go to counseling.

Well, thanks guys. I suppose this was probably kind of ridiculous, but I do feel better.