[QUOTE]Clan [MM] is a modding clan, and Clan O) is a mapping clan. Farty does both, and neither of the clans conflict with each other. I fail to see a problem.[/QUOTE] How exactly is MM a real clan? If there were a real modding clan, you would be right. It would be acceptable for someone to both mod and map, although I would be surprised if someone actually took the time to adequately learn and complete projects in both areas.

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Clan [MM] is a modding clan, and Clan O) is a mapping clan. Farty does both, and neither of the clans conflict with each other. I fail to see a problem.

How exactly is MM a real clan? If there were a real modding clan, you would be right. It would be acceptable for someone to both mod and map, although I would be surprised if someone actually took the time to adequately learn and complete projects in both areas.

[quote=fritfrat(U)]Considering I'm not a member of (U) anymore and nor do I ever plan on actually mapping often enough to become one again, since I still use the account name with the tag, was it right of me to just make it a part of my SEN account name? It's kind of part of my account name and no longer a tag :P[/quote] No, it wasn't right of you. You're misrepresenting the clan now. You're being very inconsiderate and if you had any respect or love of your former clan you wouldn't have done such a thing. Tags should never become a part of your account name anyway. You fail.

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Considering I'm not a member of (U) anymore and nor do I ever plan on actually mapping often enough to become one again, since I still use the account name with the tag, was it right of me to just make it a part of my SEN account name? It's kind of part of my account name and no longer a tag

No, it wasn't right of you. You're misrepresenting the clan now. You're being very inconsiderate and if you had any respect or love of your former clan you wouldn't have done such a thing. Tags should never become a part of your account name anyway. You fail.

Where are all of the "MUST HAVE" rules for every clan? There are none! What are the "MUST HAVE" for clan standards? All clans don't NEED a clan channel (Clan MM). All calns don't NEED a clan tag (Clan CheF?). All clans don't NEED a leader (communism? In theory it works). All clans don't NEED a genre. A clan could just be a group of friends who call themselves a group of people, with a title. If MM or Orig has a problem with members multiclanning, that is up to the leader(s) of those clans to decide, not random people who [i]think[/i] it is wrong. Funny, FaRTy is the leader of MM and Orig, last time I checked. Ian is also in Clan[O] and MM, and he also makes programs. That's a lot. Map making, Modding, Programming. [quote=(U)Esponeo]I would be surprised if someone actually took the time to adequately learn and complete projects in both areas.[/quote] Surpised?

Where are all of the "MUST HAVE" rules for every clan? There are none! What are the "MUST HAVE" for clan standards? All clans don't NEED a clan channel (Clan MM). All calns don't NEED a clan tag (Clan CheF?). All clans don't NEED a leader (communism? In theory it works). All clans don't NEED a genre. A clan could just be a group of friends who call themselves a group of people, with a title.

If MM or Orig has a problem with members multiclanning, that is up to the leader(s) of those clans to decide, not random people who think it is wrong. Funny, FaRTy is the leader of MM and Orig, last time I checked. Ian is also in Clan[O] and MM, and he also makes programs. That's a lot. Map making, Modding, Programming.

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I would be surprised if someone actually took the time to adequately learn and complete projects in both areas.

Surpised?

I didn't really bother reading what anyone other then Matt_Burch said, because judging from his post, I get the idea. I just wanted to comment on the fact that Matt_Burch couldn't be more right, there is no specific way to run a clan, and the standards for a clan are different for each one, they make their rules.

I didn't really bother reading what anyone other then Matt_Burch said, because judging from his post, I get the idea. I just wanted to comment on the fact that Matt_Burch couldn't be more right, there is no specific way to run a clan, and the standards for a clan are different for each one, they make their rules.

My use of the word "adequately" in that quote was meant to act as a catch-all for those people. That is, to say their abilities are lackluster and therefore they don't count. I'm not sure who "Ian" is though. Is that Farty or someone else? I do know Farty has extensive map making knowledge, although I don't know that I have actually seen any maps of his. [QUOTE]Where are all of the "MUST HAVE" rules for every clan? There are none! What are the "MUST HAVE" for clan standards? All clans don't NEED a clan channel (Clan MM). All calns don't NEED a clan tag (Clan CheF?). All clans don't NEED a leader (communism? In theory it works). All clans don't NEED a genre. A clan could just be a group of friends who call themselves a group of people, with a title.[/QUOTE] Clans do not necessarily need a tag or a leader, but good clans usually have both. The primary purpose of a clan is to have a group of people meet together in a designated place in a game to play together or in the case of map making, share knowledge. A clan should therefore have a channel. Additionally, a clan needs members or it isn't really a clan at all. If no one ever comes to your channel to play together and no one shows and pride or loyalty to your clan, your clan does not really exist at all. The primary way to show pride in your clan is a tag or some kind of indication in your Battle.net profile. As I said already, the purpose of a clan is to meet and play together. What is played does not really matter, and it is is not necessary to stick to one specific genre. These are rather vague requirements but to be too concrete is inappropriate. Here are all the currently created clans on SEN: [U][B]Clan Nucca[/B][/U] There is no question this is not even a real clan. This is just a bunch of vaguely related people, many of whom have not even logged into Battle.net in months or even years. They share no common interests within the game and never meet or play together. [U][B]Original[/B][/U] Original may or may not be a real clan. The fact that many of their members associate themselves with other clans seems to suggest that none of them are actually loyal to Original or have any pride in it. [U][B]Clan [MM][/B][/U] Virtually every modder on this site claims to be a member of MM. This puts them in a precarious position. For example, if every nation on Earth became one, would it make any sense to continue to refer to the new nation as a "nation" at all? I think not. The same goes for Clan MM, which contains pretty much every modder and ends up not being a clan at all. [U][B]Operation Onslaught[/B][/U] Here is a prime example of a real clan. The members show pride in their clan by wearing a tag and often meet together in a single channel in order to play together. [U][B]Dynasty[/B][/U] Four people who probably don't play together or even go on Battle.net. Not a real clan. [U][B]Clan Chef[/B][/U] Chef was almost a real clan, but quickly collapsed when everyone stopped caring. No longer even remotely legitimate. [U][B]Godz Minnionz[/B][/U] Never heard of it before. Two people, one of whom has constantly been reprimanded for spamming garbage. Almost certainly not a clan. [U][B](U)UnKnOwN ProDucTionZ[/B][/U] I don't think we have any members besides Kenoli and I at the moment. Not legitimate until that is figured out. [U][B]Freedomforce ApocalypseHq clan darkness of light Clan Destined to Kill Dangerous Bastards Prey To The LORD All Migthy[/B][/U] One member. None of these are clans.

My use of the word "adequately" in that quote was meant to act as a catch-all for those people. That is, to say their abilities are lackluster and therefore they don't count. I'm not sure who "Ian" is though. Is that Farty or someone else? I do know Farty has extensive map making knowledge, although I don't know that I have actually seen any maps of his.

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Where are all of the "MUST HAVE" rules for every clan? There are none! What are the "MUST HAVE" for clan standards? All clans don't NEED a clan channel (Clan MM). All calns don't NEED a clan tag (Clan CheF?). All clans don't NEED a leader (communism? In theory it works). All clans don't NEED a genre. A clan could just be a group of friends who call themselves a group of people, with a title.

Clans do not necessarily need a tag or a leader, but good clans usually have both. The primary purpose of a clan is to have a group of people meet together in a designated place in a game to play together or in the case of map making, share knowledge. A clan should therefore have a channel. Additionally, a clan needs members or it isn't really a clan at all. If no one ever comes to your channel to play together and no one shows and pride or loyalty to your clan, your clan does not really exist at all. The primary way to show pride in your clan is a tag or some kind of indication in your Battle.net profile. As I said already, the purpose of a clan is to meet and play together. What is played does not really matter, and it is is not necessary to stick to one specific genre.

These are rather vague requirements but to be too concrete is inappropriate.

Here are all the currently created clans on SEN:

Clan Nucca
There is no question this is not even a real clan. This is just a bunch of vaguely related people, many of whom have not even logged into Battle.net in months or even years. They share no common interests within the game and never meet or play together.

Original
Original may or may not be a real clan. The fact that many of their members associate themselves with other clans seems to suggest that none of them are actually loyal to Original or have any pride in it.

Clan [MM]
Virtually every modder on this site claims to be a member of MM. This puts them in a precarious position. For example, if every nation on Earth became one, would it make any sense to continue to refer to the new nation as a "nation" at all? I think not. The same goes for Clan MM, which contains pretty much every modder and ends up not being a clan at all.

Operation Onslaught
Here is a prime example of a real clan. The members show pride in their clan by wearing a tag and often meet together in a single channel in order to play together.

Dynasty
Four people who probably don't play together or even go on Battle.net. Not a real clan.

Clan Chef
Chef was almost a real clan, but quickly collapsed when everyone stopped caring. No longer even remotely legitimate.

Godz Minnionz
Never heard of it before. Two people, one of whom has constantly been reprimanded for spamming garbage. Almost certainly not a clan.

(U)UnKnOwN ProDucTionZ
I don't think we have any members besides Kenoli and I at the moment. Not legitimate until that is figured out.

Freedomforce
ApocalypseHq
clan darkness of light
Clan Destined to Kill
Dangerous Bastards
Prey To The LORD All Migthy
One member. None of these are clans.

[QUOTE]Clan Nucca There is no question this is not even a real clan. This is just a bunch of vaguely related people, many of whom have not even logged into Battle.net in months or even years. They share no common interests within the game and never meet or play together.[/QUOTE] As leader of Clan Nucca, I say that it is a very real clan.

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Clan Nucca
There is no question this is not even a real clan. This is just a bunch of vaguely related people, many of whom have not even logged into Battle.net in months or even years. They share no common interests within the game and never meet or play together.

As leader of Clan Nucca, I say that it is a very real clan.

[quote=Esponeo] [U][B](U)UnKnOwN ProDucTionZ[/B][/U] Another prime example of a clan. Now if only an admin could fix their tag to be a suffix instead of a prefix since they accidentally set it wrong :P [U][B]Freedomforce ApocalypseHq clan darkness of light Clan Destined to Kill Dangerous Bastards Prey To The LORD All Migthy[/B][/U] One member. None of these are clans.[/quote] [color=#1af]Pretty sure atm you belong in the one member group :P[/color]

[QUOTE]Pretty sure atm you belong in the one member group [/QUOTE] No one would join because I accidentally set the tag to be a prefix instead of a suffix. But yea, sure. You're right I guess :p On second thought I'm just going to remove it from the list entirely. I don't know if (U) actually has any members right now besides Kenoli and me. I would not want to appear biased.

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Pretty sure atm you belong in the one member group

No one would join because I accidentally set the tag to be a prefix instead of a suffix. But yea, sure. You're right I guess

On second thought I'm just going to remove it from the list entirely. I don't know if (U) actually has any members right now besides Kenoli and me. I would not want to appear biased.

With all honesty, I know that the members of Dyne game oftenly, talk oftenly, make maps regularly and just do their own thing, that in my opinion is a clan. Clan Oo also does their own thing, however the only difference that you have claimed is that they wear a tag, need I remind you that their leader (Solar) is extremely inactive the majority of the time, which contradicts your "a good clan needs a tag and a leader".

With all honesty, I know that the members of Dyne game oftenly, talk oftenly, make maps regularly and just do their own thing, that in my opinion is a clan. Clan Oo also does their own thing, however the only difference that you have claimed is that they wear a tag, need I remind you that their leader (Solar) is extremely inactive the majority of the time, which contradicts your "a good clan needs a tag and a leader".

[QUOTE]With all honesty, I know that the members of Dyne game oftenly, talk oftenly, make maps regularly and just do their own thing, that in my opinion is a clan. Clan Oo also does their own thing, however the only difference that you have claimed is that they wear a tag, need I remind you that their leader (Solar) is extremely inactive the majority of the time, which contradicts your "a good clan needs a tag and a leader".[/QUOTE] I agree with you about Dyne. As for leadership, I did not mean to give the impression that a single strong leader is essential. I have known many good clans to have multiple leaders or councils instead of a single active leader. Oo seems fine even without Solar's active leadership.

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With all honesty, I know that the members of Dyne game oftenly, talk oftenly, make maps regularly and just do their own thing, that in my opinion is a clan. Clan Oo also does their own thing, however the only difference that you have claimed is that they wear a tag, need I remind you that their leader (Solar) is extremely inactive the majority of the time, which contradicts your "a good clan needs a tag and a leader".

I agree with you about Dyne. As for leadership, I did not mean to give the impression that a single strong leader is essential. I have known many good clans to have multiple leaders or councils instead of a single active leader. Oo seems fine even without Solar's active leadership.

[quote=Esponeo][QUOTE]With all honesty, I know that the members of Dyne game oftenly, talk oftenly, make maps regularly and just do their own thing, that in my opinion is a clan. Clan Oo also does their own thing, however the only difference that you have claimed is that they wear a tag, need I remind you that their leader (Solar) is extremely inactive the majority of the time, which contradicts your "a good clan needs a tag and a leader".[/QUOTE] I agree with you about Dyne. As for leadership, I did not mean to give the impression that a single strong leader is essential. I have known many good clans to have multiple leaders or councils instead of a single active leader. Oo seems fine even without Solar's active leadership.[/quote] So whats the problem with Clan Orig or Clan MM? We base ourselves as relaxed and a Helping Community.... Not a System of Commandments... or whatever.. that's why we don't care about double-clanning, clan tags, etc. .. We just want to have ppl who make maps and help them out. As you said, You've known many good clans with multiple leaders.. We have Officers.. which are basically Co-leaders.. .especially now that Farty doesn't show up much often. Anyways... Clan (U), Clan oO .. clan whatever.. are good in their own way (Other than warring clans, which are ... pointless..) =O .. in fact.. you should come and check us out smtimes. Don't judge things that you haven't experienced yet =/

Quote from Esponeo

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With all honesty, I know that the members of Dyne game oftenly, talk oftenly, make maps regularly and just do their own thing, that in my opinion is a clan. Clan Oo also does their own thing, however the only difference that you have claimed is that they wear a tag, need I remind you that their leader (Solar) is extremely inactive the majority of the time, which contradicts your "a good clan needs a tag and a leader".

I agree with you about Dyne. As for leadership, I did not mean to give the impression that a single strong leader is essential. I have known many good clans to have multiple leaders or councils instead of a single active leader. Oo seems fine even without Solar's active leadership.

So whats the problem with Clan Orig or Clan MM?
We base ourselves as relaxed and a Helping Community.... Not a System of Commandments... or whatever..
that's why we don't care about double-clanning, clan tags, etc. .. We just want to have ppl who make maps and help them out.
As you said, You've known many good clans with multiple leaders.. We have Officers.. which are basically Co-leaders.. .especially now that Farty doesn't show up much often.

Anyways... Clan (U), Clan oO .. clan whatever.. are good in their own way (Other than warring clans, which are ... pointless..)
=O .. in fact.. you should come and check us out smtimes. Don't judge things that you haven't experienced yet =/

[QUOTE]in fact.. you should come and check us out smtimes. Don't judge things that you haven't experienced yet =/[/QUOTE] I did but it was a long time ago. I just end up looking down on you because of a few retards. And I really hate your name. It is probably unfair, you may have a good number of decent members. My problem with MM is that virtually everyone in the modding community is part of MM, and they are never really known or referred to as that. They are just the "modding community." Having the clan guise isn't really necessary or useful. They basically have three forums just for their "clan".

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in fact.. you should come and check us out smtimes. Don't judge things that you haven't experienced yet =/

I did but it was a long time ago. I just end up looking down on you because of a few retards. And I really hate your name. It is probably unfair, you may have a good number of decent members.

My problem with MM is that virtually everyone in the modding community is part of MM, and they are never really known or referred to as that. They are just the "modding community." Having the clan guise isn't really necessary or useful. They basically have three forums just for their "clan".

I agree that everyone is in MM, however that is because they are a good clan, nobody really wants to make another modding clan and give MM competition because MM is a decent clan with polite members, members which I disagree with for the most part, but generally good people. I never said anything was wrong with O), I just don't know much about them and leave them out of conversations because i see no point in arguing something I know nothing about nor care about.

I agree that everyone is in MM, however that is because they are a good clan, nobody really wants to make another modding clan and give MM competition because MM is a decent clan with polite members, members which I disagree with for the most part, but generally good people.

I never said anything was wrong with O), I just don't know much about them and leave them out of conversations because i see no point in arguing something I know nothing about nor care about.

I agree the majority of people in MM are fine people. I just don't think that having the "clan" at all is necessary. It seems to me that by definition, a clan should be a subgroup of people within a larger group. MM isn't a subgroup, [I]it is the group[/I].

I agree the majority of people in MM are fine people. I just don't think that having the "clan" at all is necessary. It seems to me that by definition, a clan should be a subgroup of people within a larger group. MM isn't a subgroup, it is the group.

what isn't neccesary is the mod team AND MM (on Maplantis)

what isn't neccesary is the mod team AND MM (on Maplantis)

[QUOTE]I did but it was a long time ago. I just end up looking down on you because of a few retards. And I really hate your name. It is probably unfair, you may have a good number of decent members.[/QUOTE] Well if you hate my name :unsure: which implies how much good humour you have =O.. then I can't really say anything =( Yes :P It sounds noobish :P but it's a great name... double U's and the opposite of HolyShit .... You probably looked down at us because .. well think about it.. we're a Community of ppl talking about stuff and having fun with bots.. and sm stranger comes in to inspect the clan .. who starts off thinking that we're retards.... You wouldn't really get a good respond... u'd probably get slapped out of the channel XD. =/ You're obviously completely into clanning.. Since you have a serious tone about this stuff... and that's fine... but no one in our clan's a retard (maybe except PvT ;)) so you have to take that back... And </3 for hating my name :( .. first time sm1 "hated" it..

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I did but it was a long time ago. I just end up looking down on you because of a few retards. And I really hate your name. It is probably unfair, you may have a good number of decent members.

Well if you hate my name which implies how much good humour you have =O.. then I can't really say anything =(
Yes It sounds noobish but it's a great name... double U's and the opposite of HolyShit ....
You probably looked down at us because .. well think about it.. we're a Community of ppl talking about stuff and having fun with bots.. and sm stranger comes in to inspect the clan .. who starts off thinking that we're retards.... You wouldn't really get a good respond... u'd probably get slapped out of the channel XD.
=/ You're obviously completely into clanning.. Since you have a serious tone about this stuff...
and that's fine... but no one in our clan's a retard (maybe except PvT ) so you have to take that back...

And </3 for hating my name .. first time sm1 "hated" it..

I never liked your name if that counts for anything :P However I think almost all the clan channels are for retarded fun stuff to do, so don't feel your bot spamming is special :P

I never liked your name if that counts for anything
However I think almost all the clan channels are for retarded fun stuff to do, so don't feel your bot spamming is special

[QUOTE]=/ You're obviously completely into clanning.. Since you have a serious tone about this stuff...[/QUOTE] Absolutely. [QUOTE]and that's fine... but no one in our clan's a retard (maybe except PvT ;) ) so you have to take that back...[/QUOTE] You may not recall the hilarious shit shooting between Matt_Burch and I on SEN v4 when I banned him from (U)'s channel. He didn't exactly prove himself the brightest bulb in the bunch.

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=/ You're obviously completely into clanning.. Since you have a serious tone about this stuff...

Absolutely.

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and that's fine... but no one in our clan's a retard (maybe except PvT ) so you have to take that back...

You may not recall the hilarious shit shooting between Matt_Burch and I on SEN v4 when I banned him from (U)'s channel. He didn't exactly prove himself the brightest bulb in the bunch.

Matt was cool on msn but kinda stupid when it came to StarCraft, iunno, now it's like we never speak or anything, so I don't know much about him really. I don't like O)mG much right now, I was joking around with some friends and I took the side of a different friend from him, so he like removed me out of anger, so in general, the O) members to me have shown a lack of compatibility ;P but according to Matt, some of you guys are pretty good. I never really look up to Oo anymore, it's mainly just defenses and bound maps coming from them, but still, atleast they're keeping active. I've pretty much retired from Mapping, I am busy with school, work, choir and hanging out with friends so yeah, life's not as easy as it was two years ago when I didn't have to worry about graduation.

Matt was cool on msn but kinda stupid when it came to StarCraft, iunno, now it's like we never speak or anything, so I don't know much about him really. I don't like O)mG much right now, I was joking around with some friends and I took the side of a different friend from him, so he like removed me out of anger, so in general, the O) members to me have shown a lack of compatibility ;P but according to Matt, some of you guys are pretty good.

I never really look up to Oo anymore, it's mainly just defenses and bound maps coming from them, but still, atleast they're keeping active. I've pretty much retired from Mapping, I am busy with school, work, choir and hanging out with friends so yeah, life's not as easy as it was two years ago when I didn't have to worry about graduation.

i think he was trying to b annoying =O EDIT: .. shocko .. he said he "hated" it :(

i think he was trying to b annoying =O

EDIT: .. shocko .. he said he "hated" it