as someone said what 4posts up, refer to the first post.

If the mines are right in your spawn points, it's even easier. Soak them up and walk 10 meters back to your heal.

They are invincible for the sole reason of not having the spawns rape them during the day...

I can still make the uninvincible AFTER your spell is done... but I think it is fine the way it is :S...

I don't like them because with the invincible mines you can steal spawn points and block warps.

As for how to win with marine: alternate civilians into Minerals, HP. Put all upgrades into damage. Outgun everything.

Doesn't work well in 1v1. By the time he's finished placing all the mines(long spell duration), he can use the spell again. That spell probably places at least 20 mines.

What about the scourge being uninvincible so it at least can't enter the enemy base?

i think he may of been a slow class and the ops may have boxed him in at the temple, invincible mines surrounding invincible hero= impossible to escape trap, leaving the game to be won by the marine =/

Nothing in ts does. vunlerable scourge doesn't really solve things because there are plenty of units that only attack ground. I think making only the last burst invincible would balance. But at this point TS is done being tweaked, and this LV4 is not a game breaker and can be prevented through taking precautions.

So when I play TS, theres a pattern in the heroes chosen.
Warrior < Most Used
Special Ops
Volt
Mutant
Light Mage
Mech
Assault
Dark Mage
Archer
Summoner
Assassin
Medic < Least Used
No, I'm not saying this applies to every single game. In general, when I play with pubbies, everyone gets the top 6.
So does anyone think something's wrong here?

Temple Siege is mainly a team game so you can't use the same tactics or playing style as you would in a 1v1. If someone is schooling you down to hell, play differently.

No, I don't think so. Your list is also very close to the difficulty to playing the character. No character is truly better than another, but some characters are harder to play than others. My list would be a little different though:

Warrior < Easiest to use
Marine(HP marine)
Volt
Archer(arrows)
Light Mage
Archer(Companions)
Mutant
Assault
Summoner
Assassin
Medic
Marine(Mana marine) < Hardest

Summoner and Assassin are both ones I see all the time (summoner especially in 2v2, which is annoying); they're certainly not rarer than DM or Firebat. Medic's unpopular because most people dislike support roles (no matter how useful), and DM is unpopular because it takes a bit of practice to make it effective given the nature of its spells and the experience to be gained by the enemy for killing DAs. Archer, I'll agree, is disliked by a lot of players (I hear a lot of moaning from people who random it), but largely because they don't know what to do with it and not because of anything having to do with the class itself.

I said frequent ones, not difficulty. And if I added the different types of them, it would be different.

Move around a few (Mostly the bottom, the top I see almost every game), I was half asleep when I did this.
Warrior < Most Used
Special Ops
Volt
Mutant
Light Mage
Mech
Summoner
Assassin
Archer
Dark Mage
Medic
Assault < Least Used

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 8 2009, 11:44 pm by l)ark_ssj9kevin.

what's so hard about a mana marine?

it's basically paraphrasing the heroes that are easiest to use...
I've already taken this into consideration in balancing the next version =O.. But it's always good to describe it...
-Warrior and Mutant's spells have already faced a "pre/post-spell effect" in order to warn people/unstack spells. Making them generally harder to use. I will also cut mutant's L3 and warrior's L2 down a BIT. (not a lot).
-On that note, Volt's L2 has been changed so that heroes are pulled in only every 3 DC's (so manually works for pretty much all heroes). HOWEVER, spell/spawn units will be pulled per trigger! ONLY HEROES can escape!
-Mech's L4 will get a face lift and a tummy tuck. Its HP/DMG seems okay tho, but I'll look into it.
-Archer has been given 2 drones per L2 spell, but weaker sunks/spores. This gives more incentive to use L2 and tech up the spell levels.
-I'm thinking of adding more effects for DM and Medic's spells, making them more powerful to balance its difficulty of use... some suggestions for this'd be nice.
-I'm also thinking of changing summoner's L3 since it's barely used. I NEED help with this one ><".

and yea.. my frd came back from toronto, and I bought a new PS3 =D =D... soo I've been laying off mapping... I'll probably get back onto doing this (if I stop procrastinating/playing LBP) XD

Maybe a spell that works hand in hand with swarm? That would be pretty cool... yet probly make summoner imbal or something.

I suggest for medic to make its L3 a channeling spell with around a 15 second cast. Allow it to give that 120 mana to itself, too, however, so it's useful even outside of a support role. I'd also suggest giving the Medic +5. Its slow movement speed and concussive damage type make it very poor against non-mages/mutant. All of the medic's spells are useful, but at this point it really is just a mage counter until you get L4, and the assault does that part better.

DM's L1 is balanced, in my opinion. It's L2 is somewhat useful, but because of how slow the DM is it's really hard to deal damage with it.

Its L3 is rarely worth the mana; if any spell is changed this would be the one. Perhaps make it a complete mana drain; set cursed target's vespene = 0. However, give it a very very small range and around a 2 second charge-up that can be seen. I think that would be better than the slow/mana drain curse, because I really never see that used.

Its L4 is very powerful if used right, but against splash classes you just feed. It's pretty balanced.




Summoner's L3:
Teleport. Give it a cloaked wraith to pick a destination and allow a 10-12 second duration. At the end of it, the summoner is teleported to the new location. This will allow summoners to do more than sit inside the base, because they'll have a way to escape when engaged, if they are smart about mana usage. Another option would be to give the player a mutalisk and a Greater Spire and let the player morph to a guardian when he wants to teleport, or just teleport him when the 10-12 second timer elapses if he does not morph. This allows far more flexibility than a cloaked wraith, though it's slightly harder to trigger.

Basically this would make the summoner an offensive class too, rather than just being an EXP whore.


As for what classes I see chosen most:

1. Spec Ops --> Easy to play, little or no spell usage required. Mines make EXP and capturing easy. Can overpower almost anything with pure rate of fire/damage type.
Warrior ---> High damage, hard to die, most don't get more than L2. Either his HP or his damage should probably be cut. I'm in favor of HP--> ~5000.
Mech ---> Vulture destroys anything melee with an ounce of micro. In my opinion still overpowered due to versatility. Easy to escape, just change form.
Mutant ---> Lurker bombing is easy, but a lot of people like going L2 now too. Seems to be a balanced class.
Volt ---> All useful spells, mana whoring as it makes playing against it annoying as hell.
Summoner ---> Some people like it, some don't. Not much to say.
Archer ---> Explosive damage leaves people clueless if they don't know to muta spam. I'm back to rarely see anyone going L3 (due to the Companion nerf?).
LM ---> Easy to die, defensive role.
Assassin ---> I don't know, I like it a lot... =p
DM ---> Slow character, useless against Volt/Mech. Requires teamwork to use maelstrom well.
Medic ---> Boring to be support.
12. Assault ---> Hard to play well, but it's definitely balanced to me.


Finally: one small bug, on the first cast of my L1 as Assault my Corsair did not have enough energy for Disruption Web. Strange and annoying.

Thanks, look forward to feedback on my ideas.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 9 2009, 2:24 am by FaZ-.

heheheh... I forgot to mention I completely changed your list's no. 1 and no. 12.
In a completely balanced map, I hope to not see this "list".
HOWEVER, I've already expected LM, Assassin, DM, and Medic to be "bottom tier".. because they are special. They're the kind of heroes that are used less often and can rape ppl who aren't prepared against them. (Btw, I'm a big fan of Yoshi, the "bottom tier" yoshi back in SSBM)

annnyyways... I can Kind of accept your L3 for Medic's idea... But I'm wishing for smth better =o.. I actually have an Idea already. soo.... nvm.
As for DM's L3, I'm open for suggestions... but I feel that it's a good spell when your teamates are around.. It's there for the annoyance factor, which I don't wish to remove >=).

Oh, and there're other changes which I forgot to mention, but w/e, you guys will find out in due time.

EDIT: and I needa test if Medic getting +5 is a good idea..

I too was thinking of teleportation for summoner, but either to his dark swarm or something like teleporting all his goblins to him or his dark swarm, That way if a melee hero is attacking him he can surround them and if its swarm vs a range hero he can swarm and then tele to swarm. Might be a little OP though.

extremely OP... i'd have to make the zlings +1 if I do that lol! (Hey that may actually be a good idea =o!)

okay I'm new and not very good.. Could someone explain to me the 'difficulty' with playing assault? And how to play the alternative to muta spam for archers?

Also, when viewing replays, are we supposed to change the speed to fastest ASAP after we enter the replay to keep everything in sync?