Actually, this is Ludacris:


Sorry, had to.

---

Turn him into a Summoner? It's one turret. Max one. It only relocates and cannot move.
Timer would definitely be needed to prevent building rape now that I think about it.

It's a possiblity. I'd like brainstorming to continue

Good point.

We need to keep in mind that Disable already has the largest area of effect in the game.

Indeed, but invincibility is pretty powerful. I almost want to say that we should wait on redoing Medic until after L4 stops giving the benefit of a combined 45 total civilians spent maxing the HP of an entire team.

Where is Light Barrier going? I think you're talking about a different spell.

You would stop getting the XP after the Warp Gate respawned.

Did not see that you were limiting it to a single turret. Definitely an interesting spell, I just feel it doesn't help the Assault in his PvP game, and with nuke being removed he has little point to killing structures. Also, I'm pretty sure that it's not affected by Terran Infantry Upgrades, so it wouldn't gain in power as the game goes on and would be essentially useless for 50 mana in endgame.

Invincibility is powerful, but with FH getting a nerf and no other boosts to the Medic, the character would be terrible. Thus the experimental changes to L2/L3 to compensate. If they prove to be overpowered or underpowered, that can be remedied, but I don't think anyone would argue that nerfing the FH and not improving the Medic in any way would make the class viable, so why not improve it?

Light Barrier is being replaced by the Reavers from L2, which were displaced by the Teleport. The L4 would thus turn into a high powered Light Barrier, during which time the LM would be a Reaver for a while.



[quote Genocidal.Legend]A guy screaming "LM is OP", 99% of the time will come out with warped ideas or ideas that are just horrible because his perceptions of the game are just so bad that he will never be able see what the game really needs and what the game doesnt need.

And this is coming from the guy who says: "NUKE AND DROPSHIP IS SO OVERPOWERED LOLOLOLOLOL"[/quote]
Genocidal, learn to read. Then learn to read critically. Then try thinking about what's been posted: the Medic will no longer have FH. I won't go into the points made as to why the Medic should be changed from being so L4 reliant, since logic and reasoning are evidently both wasted on you.

Also, if you knew how to read critically, you might have noticed this:

[quote FaZ-]I don't think the LM is overpowered in a decent game, I've said many many times that it's simply boring as hell because it lacks mobility and offensive capabilities and must rely on teamsplash deny to match up, and is a nonfactor for most of the game.[/quote]

or this

[quote FaZ-]The old Firebat is not broken. It can be countered pretty easily by building an absolute shit ton of cannons, which no one who's any good at the game enjoys.[/quote]

or this

[quote FaZ-]
And finally: I AM NOT ARGUING THAT THE OLD ASSAULT IS BROKEN. Did you catch it this time?[/quote]
Evidently you didn't.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 10 2009, 11:12 pm by FaZ-.

You can't move floor traps via triggers, btw (but you can with recall). I think a hallucination would do well for summoner. It would help very much late game with heroes like archer that shreds through the lings easily. You could make it so that every zergling would have a "double". It could replace the current spell 2 as it is much more useful (now that nuke is gone, summoner doesn't need infested terrans to attack under the web).

Make up your mind FaZ-, is it a non-factor or not? From what I know, you don't even play the hero, which is a similar debate to your Archer argument. This is a perfect example of what Genocidal.Legend is talking about when he doesn't want people making judgments on heroes they don't even know how to handle.

[quote]
ROFL, damn you got me .

I think it's pretty clear what I mean, even from those two out of context quotes. It's a nonfactor for most of the game because it is necessarily relegated almost entirely to a PvE role as your team fights to send your spawns away from him. When/if you fail to do so and its EXP shoots up high, then it becomes a factor.

What exactly is my Archer argument? I've made many comments on the Archer, and it's one of my better heroes. Just because I wrote a Mech Guide doesn't mean it's the only character that I play, not even close.

Play power med, rapes all excpet biggies and a good bat. So how exactly is that not viable? Power med disable = rape in can. In fact the only people who could level in the same lane as the power med are the biggies, bat and sin at night.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 11 2009, 12:43 am by Mini Moose 2707. Reason: Trolling.

... What?

Anyway, please stop trolling each other.

FaZ- is not saying LM is or is not overpowered in and of itself. It depends on how it is played. He is not speaking in absolutes. For some reason the fact that he is speaking with conditional and situational statements seems to be completely ignored.

Okay.....so that means every hero can be op'd depending on how its played...right...

It means conditional statements exist and that there are both legit (not OP) and extremely cheap (OP) ways of playing Light Mage. It is not impossible for this situation to emerge for other classes when they are played in unforeseen ways.

Let me illustrate with an example: Take a normal class that can manual. Let's use Mech for this example. The Mech may or may not be overpowered, it doesn't matter. Put him on a team with a Dark Mage and a Medic. Both the Dark Mage and Medic spam L1, which the Mech player shamelessly teamkills. He shoots beyond every other player in the game in terms of XP. He has far more levels than everyone else and therefore becomes overpowered within the context of that game.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Jul 11 2009, 3:26 am by Mini Moose 2707.

I thought of this a while ago, when unholy kinda wanted to change lm for 1.5... I think his l1 and l3 are pretty good the way they are, except i'd like to put an obs to one of those spells, so he can see cloaked units and can't be automatically beaten by sin. The problem right now seems to be his l2 and l4, so i had an idea. How about his l2 includes protoss air, like it creates scouts to attack, but at a far range around him, so he doesnt have to be right next to his opponent to use it. Then, amke his l4, use something such as a carrier(carrier would probably be the best for it) and have it attack for a while, but not able to move away from the lm. This eliminates the l2 splash killing, even though i personally dont think its op considering assault always splash kills. Alos, for the l4, maybe give it an on and off invince, so he only gets hit with like 1/2 of attacks or something. It could also be cool to give him a spell that increases his movement, but i dun have any ideas for any =(.

Moose, I noticed you said something about terrain problems. If you could explain to me what about the terrain is causing imbalances, I could fix them for you, proper blends and all that.

Sorry, didnt see this b4

Meh. lm doesnt really need a teleport. One way to fix a lot of these problems would be to change the base unit for lm. Now before you say OHMYGOSHCHANGINGIT?????????? I have some thing to say. First, you would have to take off reavs for the l2 and l of lm, like i stated in my last post. then find another unit to replace it, such as a dragoon. this would get rid of the need for a teleporting spell, but might cause more balancing issues i guess... anyway, moving reavers to l3 is still gonna give you lms who spam reavs, just they wont be as good until a little later in time... and a l4 transformation for lm has already basically been decided as a bad idea by the community. i.e. the lm 1.5 discussion, and an invince transformation would just be REALLY OP.

eh youll prolly want a complete list but there are quite a few things. The top left corner is different distance from both bases. It also is designed poorly as the location can't be made bigger with out it going past the upper cliff.

its like this somewhat (_ ~~~{
the ramps being the two }____(
normal parenthesis.

when the location is enlarged you no longer need to go up 2 cliffs to interupt and can interupt from the side of the one.

The top left corner can be closed off and used for trapping big unit heros easily due to the lack of exits and the size of exits.

there is also some narrow spots on the top/left lane which cause some problems when people maliciously try blocking spawn.

along the bottom are two gysers which are fairly close together and can be protected easier than quite a few other gyser spots. There are some gysers which cant be protected very well due to unbuildable terrain near them.

thats all i can think of but its a decent list. I'm sure moose can tell you everythhing thats wrong just a few i thought i would toss in.

Do you mean the top right?

I can do the terrain if you like...

Kinda building off of that:

Wave of Light:
Creates Scouts in a circle around him, then creates them in a bigger circle, like a wave.

3 tech paths = nono.

Okay, here's my brief terrain analysis. Please give me opinions as well. I want as much of a consensus as possible before I tell Excalibur it's final and to do this stuff.

http://www.staredit.net/moose/ts/ts_terrain.png (Disclaimer: HUGE 3,029 KB image)

Also, this is the Temple Siege 1.0 terrain:
http://www.staredit.net/moose/ts/ts_10.png (Disclaimer: Only 476 KB)
I marked some things on there. I like the "off-path" geysers... there are some spots that could possibly accomodate such a thing in the 1.4 terrain. It was also a LOT more open and less cluttered than what we use now. I'm sure that some people are willing to redo entirely the terrain either from scratch or from a generic outline that I can throw down on an .scx.

Also, I'd like to get this proposal out of the way now:
1. Move heal off the temple to a building behind the temple.
2. Remove invincibility at the temple. (ie, no more templecamping)
I've heard DotA does it that way... I can see why.

When you say de-clusterfuck I assume you want the area widened / less cluttered?

Also just to let everyone know, my first priority is fixing the god awful blockiness of most of the extended terrain. If possible, I'd like to take each piece of extended, blend it until it hits a transfer that it cant blend to, and throw one or two sprites over it, rather than this consistant blockiness everywhere.

Wait wait Hold it!

Before you all go ahead and change the terrain, I just want to stress that the Terrain is definately a big part of Temple Siege. I don't mind Ex re-doing the terrain or what not, but I already had Mneox make another terrain, and had xYoshix fix it up a bit...
I have never disclosed it caues I was saving that change for later

Anywho.. it's nice to see the old terrain versus the new... things certainy has changed o.O....
U guys gotta remember tho, Mnx did the v1.2-now terrain before TS was popular and before all you shmucks started talking about balance <3. In that respect.. mnx did a wonderful job of making the terrain look nice and quickly making new players interested in the map.

Well ... through introspect, I believe that it is time to move on from the old terrain and do the new one... If u want I can share the new terrain.. Or u can just wait for me to fix everything up (yeah that might take a while... judging from the fact that no one supports v1.5).

EDIT: ... I stressed to Mnx that the new terrain has to be less cluttered... But I also agree with the Off-path geysers, but since the geysers has not been placed yet.. I will see what I can do