[quote=name:Kaias]Well feel free to mirror my design, if you wish.[/quote] I need hydralisks.. they make good weapon counters due to their moderate size :p However, I think I will do your variant system, just in a more simple way with more beacons. You have influenced me :)

Quote from Kaias

Well feel free to mirror my design, if you wish.

I need hydralisks.. they make good weapon counters due to their moderate size

However, I think I will do your variant system, just in a more simple way with more beacons. You have influenced me

Haha, are they really that important? Hmm, I count 25 smaller than a tile sized ground units not including a regular hydra. If you say so. Keep in mind that it will become a pain to have to memorize what so many units mean. I would use, for instance, a different color of the weapon, to mean they will be hurt by it in the damage phase, instead of an entirely different unit. You do have some left over players, if I remember correctly.

Haha, are they really that important? Hmm, I count 25 smaller than a tile sized ground units not including a regular hydra.

If you say so.

Keep in mind that it will become a pain to have to memorize what so many units mean. I would use, for instance, a different color of the weapon, to mean they will be hurt by it in the damage phase, instead of an entirely different unit. You do have some left over players, if I remember correctly.

Yes, I am doing away with attack and damage counters both. Like in 1.X, Attack counters will be the enemy computer player color, but they will just be the weapon unit it's self. Even If I had only attack counters, most units have a hero counterpart. In 1.X I was making Design & Damage Counters match while attack counters were oddballs, causing the zerg unit use. [color=#CE091D][size=18]Here's some questions for everyone[/size][/color] In weapons that bounce or have effects next turn, there is a question of behaviour The bounce weapon: (working title Pulse Cannon) If it rolls 0 out of 3 for the first hit... should it still bounce for a 0-2 on a second adjacent target? If it rolls 2 on the first hit, should it only bounce once for a 0-1? (3 would give both bounces possible, while 1 and 0 would not bounce) The acid/plague weapon: (working title Acid Stream) If it rolls a 0 out of 2 the first time, should it roll again the next turn? If it rolls a 1 out of 2 the first time, should it's roll be reduced to 0-1 for the next turn? Or should it be guaranteed damage, but reduced by 1 next turn? (example it rolls a 2 first turn, it does 1 for sure next turn) Should it ignore shields & deflectors on the 2nd turn if the first turn was successful, since its a continuation of the successful first turn? The movement-dependant damage weapon: (working title Graviton Ray) The idea with this weapon is it rolls 0-3 and the next turn it does an additional 0-2 for each space the targeted ship moves. -If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should it do any damage if the ship moves the next turn? -If it rolls just a 1 the first turn, should it maybe roll only 0-1 per space moved? A firing-dependent damage weapon: (working title Ion Beam) The idea here is that the weapon rolls a 0-1 on the first turn. It does a 0-1 for each weapon fired during the next turn. If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should the after-effect be negated? There isn't too much question in my mind that Nuclear Missiles will roll all their 0-2's independently since they are simple AOE.

Yes, I am doing away with attack and damage counters both. Like in 1.X, Attack counters will be the enemy computer player color, but they will just be the weapon unit it's self.

Even If I had only attack counters, most units have a hero counterpart. In 1.X I was making Design & Damage Counters match while attack counters were oddballs, causing the zerg unit use.


Here's some questions for everyone

In weapons that bounce or have effects next turn, there is a question of behaviour

The bounce weapon: (working title Pulse Cannon)
If it rolls 0 out of 3 for the first hit... should it still bounce for a 0-2 on a second adjacent target?
If it rolls 2 on the first hit, should it only bounce once for a 0-1? (3 would give both bounces possible, while 1 and 0 would not bounce)

The acid/plague weapon: (working title Acid Stream)
If it rolls a 0 out of 2 the first time, should it roll again the next turn?
If it rolls a 1 out of 2 the first time, should it's roll be reduced to 0-1 for the next turn?
Or should it be guaranteed damage, but reduced by 1 next turn? (example it rolls a 2 first turn, it does 1 for sure next turn)
Should it ignore shields & deflectors on the 2nd turn if the first turn was successful, since its a continuation of the successful first turn?

The movement-dependant damage weapon: (working title Graviton Ray)
The idea with this weapon is it rolls 0-3 and the next turn it does an additional 0-2 for each space the targeted ship moves.
-If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should it do any damage if the ship moves the next turn?
-If it rolls just a 1 the first turn, should it maybe roll only 0-1 per space moved?

A firing-dependent damage weapon: (working title Ion Beam)
The idea here is that the weapon rolls a 0-1 on the first turn. It does a 0-1 for each weapon fired during the next turn.
If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should the after-effect be negated?

There isn't too much question in my mind that Nuclear Missiles will roll all their 0-2's independently since they are simple AOE.

Here's how I have it planned out so far. Not sure how this image is gonna show up.. [img=http://i30.tinypic.com/1zqpvfm.jpg] EDIT: OH for the love of SHOOT ME NOW... sigh -.- You can save to desktop & open in Paint or a new browser window -.-

Here's how I have it planned out so far. Not sure how this image is gonna show up..



EDIT: OH for the love of SHOOT ME NOW... sigh -.- You can save to desktop & open in Paint or a new browser window -.-

[quote=name:Tank_7]The bounce weapon: (working title Pulse Cannon) If it rolls 0 out of 3 for the first hit... should it still bounce for a 0-2 on a second adjacent target? If it rolls 2 on the first hit, should it only bounce once for a 0-1? (3 would give both bounces possible, while 1 and 0 would not bounce) [/quote] I always think of a roll of 0 as a miss. I'd say if you roll a 0, the blast just goes flying out into space without effect. If you're trying to mirror a mutalisk's attack with this one, the muta always does less damage to subsequent targets, so so should this. [quote=name:Tank_7]The acid/plague weapon: (working title Acid Stream) If it rolls a 0 out of 2 the first time, should it roll again the next turn? If it rolls a 1 out of 2 the first time, should it's roll be reduced to 0-1 for the next turn? Or should it be guaranteed damage, but reduced by 1 next turn? (example it rolls a 2 first turn, it does 1 for sure next turn) Should it ignore shields & deflectors on the 2nd turn if the first turn was successful, since its a continuation of the successful first turn?[/quote] If 0 is a miss, then the acid won't be on the target to dissolve its hull the next turn. But if it hits, then it might well chew its way through to an essential system, and do more damage the second turn, so its second roll should be independent of the first. If it hits shields the first time, it should do nothing the next turn, but if it gets through the shields, then it shouldn't have to deal with the shields again. [quote=name:Tank_7]The movement-dependant damage weapon: (working title Graviton Ray) The idea with this weapon is it rolls 0-3 and the next turn it does an additional 0-2 for each space the targeted ship moves. -If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should it do any damage if the ship moves the next turn? -If it rolls just a 1 the first turn, should it maybe roll only 0-1 per space moved?[/quote] As with the others, if 0 = miss (as I think it should), then a 0 roll shouldn't cause the weapon's special effect. But unlike an acid weapon, which delivers a payload that continues working through the target ship after impact, doping up the hull with gravitons to amplify its inertia so that it rips itself apart when it moves is done all in the initial dose, so its subsequent maximum should be based off of the initial damage. [quote=name:Tank_7]A firing-dependent damage weapon: (working title Ion Beam) The idea here is that the weapon rolls a 0-1 on the first turn. It does a 0-1 for each weapon fired during the next turn. If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should the after-effect be negated?[/quote] Since this is basically a debilitating weapon, the natural parallel for it would be the Graviton Ray. It should use the same mechanic as the GR.

Quote from ws-Tank_7

The bounce weapon: (working title Pulse Cannon)
If it rolls 0 out of 3 for the first hit... should it still bounce for a 0-2 on a second adjacent target?
If it rolls 2 on the first hit, should it only bounce once for a 0-1? (3 would give both bounces possible, while 1 and 0 would not bounce)

I always think of a roll of 0 as a miss. I'd say if you roll a 0, the blast just goes flying out into space without effect. If you're trying to mirror a mutalisk's attack with this one, the muta always does less damage to subsequent targets, so so should this.

Quote from ws-Tank_7

The acid/plague weapon: (working title Acid Stream)
If it rolls a 0 out of 2 the first time, should it roll again the next turn?
If it rolls a 1 out of 2 the first time, should it's roll be reduced to 0-1 for the next turn?
Or should it be guaranteed damage, but reduced by 1 next turn? (example it rolls a 2 first turn, it does 1 for sure next turn)
Should it ignore shields & deflectors on the 2nd turn if the first turn was successful, since its a continuation of the successful first turn?

If 0 is a miss, then the acid won't be on the target to dissolve its hull the next turn. But if it hits, then it might well chew its way through to an essential system, and do more damage the second turn, so its second roll should be independent of the first. If it hits shields the first time, it should do nothing the next turn, but if it gets through the shields, then it shouldn't have to deal with the shields again.

Quote from ws-Tank_7

The movement-dependant damage weapon: (working title Graviton Ray)
The idea with this weapon is it rolls 0-3 and the next turn it does an additional 0-2 for each space the targeted ship moves.
-If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should it do any damage if the ship moves the next turn?
-If it rolls just a 1 the first turn, should it maybe roll only 0-1 per space moved?

As with the others, if 0 = miss (as I think it should), then a 0 roll shouldn't cause the weapon's special effect. But unlike an acid weapon, which delivers a payload that continues working through the target ship after impact, doping up the hull with gravitons to amplify its inertia so that it rips itself apart when it moves is done all in the initial dose, so its subsequent maximum should be based off of the initial damage.

Quote from ws-Tank_7

A firing-dependent damage weapon: (working title Ion Beam)
The idea here is that the weapon rolls a 0-1 on the first turn. It does a 0-1 for each weapon fired during the next turn.
If it rolls a 0 the first turn, should the after-effect be negated?

Since this is basically a debilitating weapon, the natural parallel for it would be the Graviton Ray. It should use the same mechanic as the GR.

Switch to probe and scv for plasma cannon imo

Switch to probe and scv for plasma cannon imo

Way too many weapons--how about releasing them in batches? Introduce a few weapon with each version--this also allows you to release your map earlier, and have some sort of 'promotion period'/'trial' for the final version of your map.

Way too many weapons--how about releasing them in batches? Introduce a few weapon with each version--this also allows you to release your map earlier, and have some sort of 'promotion period'/'trial' for the final version of your map.

[quote=name:Wing-of-no-Wing][/quote] Thanks Wing-of-no-Wing, I was thinking that for the 0's but wanted some input/thought. You've set it out quite logically. Things I'm still unsure of is wether or not effects should be applied if there is a shield or deflector array that blocks the initial attack. If you get an Ion Beam attack roll 1, and Deflector roll 1, does it ionize the target ship for next turn? Same thing for Attack roll 1, shield roll 1. And this could apply to the GR as well. The Ion Beam is particularly destructive to large ships that have lots of guns so I think it should have to pierce Deflectors and Shields. GR I'm not as sure though. I think it would be pretty balanced if it's after-effect was, as you stated, simply limited by the initial attack roll. [quote=name:Kaias]Switch to probe and scv for plasma cannon imo[/quote] Believe me I wish I could, to get rid of big crap like Dragoon, Goliath... But they would pick up Flags :( On the bright side I have put them as the 1 & 10 Mineral setters for the Mineral Setting at the start of the game. [quote=name:iamandragon]Way too many weapons--how about releasing them in batches? Introduce a few weapon with each version--this also allows you to release your map earlier, and have some sort of 'promotion period'/'trial' for the final version of your map.[/quote] I really wanna make this the final, using just about every available unit. Adding weapons later is also difficult, otherwise I might have done it all in the 1.X series.

Quote from Wing-of-no-Wing

Thanks Wing-of-no-Wing, I was thinking that for the 0's but wanted some input/thought. You've set it out quite logically. Things I'm still unsure of is wether or not effects should be applied if there is a shield or deflector array that blocks the initial attack. If you get an Ion Beam attack roll 1, and Deflector roll 1, does it ionize the target ship for next turn? Same thing for Attack roll 1, shield roll 1. And this could apply to the GR as well.

The Ion Beam is particularly destructive to large ships that have lots of guns so I think it should have to pierce Deflectors and Shields. GR I'm not as sure though. I think it would be pretty balanced if it's after-effect was, as you stated, simply limited by the initial attack roll.

Quote from Kaias

Switch to probe and scv for plasma cannon imo

Believe me I wish I could, to get rid of big crap like Dragoon, Goliath... But they would pick up Flags On the bright side I have put them as the 1 & 10 Mineral setters for the Mineral Setting at the start of the game.

Quote from iamandragon

Way too many weapons--how about releasing them in batches? Introduce a few weapon with each version--this also allows you to release your map earlier, and have some sort of 'promotion period'/'trial' for the final version of your map.

I really wanna make this the final, using just about every available unit. Adding weapons later is also difficult, otherwise I might have done it all in the 1.X series.

You should have different modes, each adding more complexity to weapons. The default is 'basic' mode, with maybe 6 accessories, then maybe 'advanced mode' and 'expert' mode, each with more options.

You should have different modes, each adding more complexity to weapons. The default is 'basic' mode, with maybe 6 accessories, then maybe 'advanced mode' and 'expert' mode, each with more options.

[quote=name:Impeached]You should have different modes, each adding more complexity to weapons. The default is 'basic' mode, with maybe 6 accessories, then maybe 'advanced mode' and 'expert' mode, each with more options.[/quote] I put in a basic mode option but I dont think I wanna keep dicing it up.

Quote from ws-Impeached

You should have different modes, each adding more complexity to weapons. The default is 'basic' mode, with maybe 6 accessories, then maybe 'advanced mode' and 'expert' mode, each with more options.

I put in a basic mode option but I dont think I wanna keep dicing it up.

Those "basic" and "advanced" options will make your map more complex.I believe you shouldn't make those advanced and expert options.

Those "basic" and "advanced" options will make your map more complex.I believe you shouldn't make those advanced and expert options.

Thats what I meant by saying I dont want to dice it up further. There is a single "Basic Mode" ON/OFF option to simplify ship design.

Thats what I meant by saying I dont want to dice it up further. There is a single "Basic Mode" ON/OFF option to simplify ship design.

Okay I'm a BRUTAL procastinator but here is the new Ship Customization System. You can create your fleet and place it. The new system is clunky with beacons but it's designed to be aggressively noob-friendly with guiding messages. Check it out [url=http://www.staredit.net/files/544/]here[/url]. I think I'm gonna have to make the map's tiles bigger or else a large number of attacks could overflow to nearby ships. EDIT: Oooh oooh dont forget that when you try it out... log on to battle.net please. The Center View's in the triggers are... necessary. EDIT SOME MORE: Forgot to mention the triggers are only for Player 1 for now. This way I can easily make changes before I duplicate for Player 2 with text editing.

Okay I'm a BRUTAL procastinator but here is the new Ship Customization System. You can create your fleet and place it.
The new system is clunky with beacons but it's designed to be aggressively noob-friendly with guiding messages. Check it out here.

I think I'm gonna have to make the map's tiles bigger or else a large number of attacks could overflow to nearby ships.

EDIT: Oooh oooh dont forget that when you try it out... log on to battle.net please. The Center View's in the triggers are... necessary.

EDIT SOME MORE: Forgot to mention the triggers are only for Player 1 for now. This way I can easily make changes before I duplicate for Player 2 with text editing.

Well, Multiplayer, not necessarily Battle.net

Well, Multiplayer, not necessarily Battle.net

I just played the new design, honestly it seems to be the least conventional so far. You can't pick up your own flag, btw. So if it doesn't matter so much who owns the flag (although I'm guessing it does) then you could give the flag to whomever owns the units representing equipment on the tile. Thus you could use the probe/drone/scv. And replace the hydra.. I guess after using it a few times I could get used to it and know exactly what I'm doing, but it still takes forever.

I just played the new design, honestly it seems to be the least conventional so far.

You can't pick up your own flag, btw. So if it doesn't matter so much who owns the flag (although I'm guessing it does) then you could give the flag to whomever owns the units representing equipment on the tile. Thus you could use the probe/drone/scv. And replace the hydra..

I guess after using it a few times I could get used to it and know exactly what I'm doing, but it still takes forever.

:( Do you have any suggestions for speeding it up? The only thing I have in mind is giving 2 units, an "Add" and "Remove" pair for equipment like in 1.X. The one-task-at-a-time thing was for extreme noob friendlyness but it might be going too far.

Do you have any suggestions for speeding it up?

The only thing I have in mind is giving 2 units, an "Add" and "Remove" pair for equipment like in 1.X. The one-task-at-a-time thing was for extreme noob friendlyness but it might be going too far.

Well, moving a unit is slow. I guess one way to do it would be to have, for instance, a civ where is 'beacon' is. And if the civ is moved, do the corresponding action. Using inverted locations you can find if they are moved easily almost instantaneously. This way, you don't need to bring a unit way up to each place and you don't need a pathway. Thus you can fit more more options on the screen. Using the same idea you could put a drone in place of the civ and detect burrowing for option selection. Then there's the method in my design template. You aren't using siege tanks, so you could replace the hydralisk with tanks and use the hydralisk for numerical selection. Fastest method I can think of. Tanks aren't to big since they are only 1 tile (same as reavers, archons, DAs, more) Or you could use a Dark Archon to MC your selections and replace the current function of the DA with Duran. Oh and you don't really need to move the duran selector to a whole bunch of different places. You can use the same place and replace the buildings over the old ones. Of course, I'm guessing you know this and theres some aesthetic factor affecting your choice.

Well, moving a unit is slow.

I guess one way to do it would be to have, for instance, a civ where is 'beacon' is. And if the civ is moved, do the corresponding action. Using inverted locations you can find if they are moved easily almost instantaneously. This way, you don't need to bring a unit way up to each place and you don't need a pathway. Thus you can fit more more options on the screen.

Using the same idea you could put a drone in place of the civ and detect burrowing for option selection.

Then there's the method in my design template. You aren't using siege tanks, so you could replace the hydralisk with tanks and use the hydralisk for numerical selection. Fastest method I can think of. Tanks aren't to big since they are only 1 tile (same as reavers, archons, DAs, more)

Or you could use a Dark Archon to MC your selections and replace the current function of the DA with Duran.


Oh and you don't really need to move the duran selector to a whole bunch of different places. You can use the same place and replace the buildings over the old ones. Of course, I'm guessing you know this and theres some aesthetic factor affecting your choice.

Hmm yeah a Drone Burrow or Move system would be ALOT better. Thanks. The MC Idea is prevented by aesthetics. Duran cannot be told apart from regular Terran Ghost without clicking the unit, and Terran Ghost is Laser so I want to keep Duran out of the weapons. The buildings as well. Some areas have different numbers of choices. For the ones that dont, like the "pre-game" options at the very start, I purposely remove the option that wasnt picked. The option that is picked remains to be seen by map reavealers for players to reference what was picked if they forget or AFK during the option setting process. The First Player Order and Flagship Mode options are particularly important in fleet customization.

Hmm yeah a Drone Burrow or Move system would be ALOT better. Thanks.

The MC Idea is prevented by aesthetics. Duran cannot be told apart from regular Terran Ghost without clicking the unit, and Terran Ghost is Laser so I want to keep Duran out of the weapons.
The buildings as well. Some areas have different numbers of choices. For the ones that dont, like the "pre-game" options at the very start, I purposely remove the option that wasnt picked. The option that is picked remains to be seen by map reavealers for players to reference what was picked if they forget or AFK during the option setting process. The First Player Order and Flagship Mode options are particularly important in fleet customization.

Arg... while making a drone system I managed to free up Dark Archon for MC... lol... I also freed up Broodling and I need a weapon idea. Changes: Zergling is now Laser. The 4 Male Ghosts That Look Identical On The Exterior (Regular Terran Ghost, Stukov, Duran, Infested Duran) are now the 4 Phasor Ranges. The 3 Dark Templars (Regular Protoss Dark Templar, Hero Dark Templar, Zeratul) are now Pulse Cannon and the Two Potential Bounce Attacks. This has freed up Broodling for a nice new weapon. I might even make Broodling be Anti-Matter, Tassadar be Plasma Cannon, and so Dragoon is the new weapon, it can be weird & rare for use.

Arg... while making a drone system I managed to free up Dark Archon for MC... lol...
I also freed up Broodling and I need a weapon idea.

Changes:
Zergling is now Laser.
The 4 Male Ghosts That Look Identical On The Exterior (Regular Terran Ghost, Stukov, Duran, Infested Duran) are now the 4 Phasor Ranges.
The 3 Dark Templars (Regular Protoss Dark Templar, Hero Dark Templar, Zeratul) are now Pulse Cannon and the Two Potential Bounce Attacks.

This has freed up Broodling for a nice new weapon. I might even make Broodling be Anti-Matter, Tassadar be Plasma Cannon, and so Dragoon is the new weapon, it can be weird & rare for use.

Heck you could even use tanks in place of the Hydras for numerical selection. I wouldn't make too many weapons. Having to remember them all could be a serious pain. Esp since you'd have to take so many factors into account for each variant you fight. Ah I thought there was a reason for the different areas. I would recommend then, just taking these buildings and putting them in a row above the playing field for easy viewing.

Heck you could even use tanks in place of the Hydras for numerical selection.

I wouldn't make too many weapons. Having to remember them all could be a serious pain. Esp since you'd have to take so many factors into account for each variant you fight.

Ah I thought there was a reason for the different areas. I would recommend then, just taking these buildings and putting them in a row above the playing field for easy viewing.