[quote=name:PCFredZ]How are you implementing arbitrary random ratios like rolling out out of 3 combinations? If you're using randomized switches, how many switches are you using?[/quote] Let the number of switches used be represented by the number "n". The number of possible combinations is 2^n. (2 to the exponent of n) Lets look at the shield roll on a common 1.0 planetsmasher with 7 shield generators, 7 lasers, and 2 alternate weapons incase of a "swarm". I have named a bunch of switches "Random Bit 0", "Random Bit 1", "Random Bit 2", and so on. (Below referenced as [R.B. #]) When the planetsmasher gets an attack, the shield roll kicks in, and it uses the randomized switches like this: [R.B. 2], [R.B. 1], [R.B. 0], [Shield Roll] cleared, cleared, cleared, 0 cleared, cleared, set, 1 cleared, set, cleared, 2 cleared, set, set, 3 set, cleared, cleared, 4 set, cleared, set, 5 set, set, cleared, 6 set, set, set, 7 It's simple binary representation of numbers, with each switch acting as a single binary bit. 8 bits can yield 256 values (0-255) while 16 bits yields 65??? ("64k") values. The heaviest use of random switches in the map is in the ship's death explosion-animation. EDIT: I chose to name the random bit switches the way I did because the numbers remind me of the bit's value when I'm converting binary to decimal. R.B. 0 for example is worth 2^0, and can only add a 1 (or not) to the total decimal value. In the planned 2.0 weapon damage bell curving, it will be a little more switch intensive, as there are alot more "chances" for the medium numbers to show up. The planned Fusion Beam has 20 numbers in it's damage distribution, so it will need 5 switches, 2^5 = 32, and 12 possibilities will be left over. Unfortunately, this does leave a slight possibility that the game will keep choosing one of the 12 "invalid" values and keep having to re-randomize, but statistically an acceptable value is generated within a few hyper cycles. I have already done this in all cases where the number of shield generators is not equal to [a power of 2 minus 1], and also for rail guns where the damage roll, 0-2, only used up 3 of 4 combinations with 2 randomized switches.

Quote from PCFredZ

How are you implementing arbitrary random ratios like rolling out out of 3 combinations? If you're using randomized switches, how many switches are you using?

Let the number of switches used be represented by the number "n".
The number of possible combinations is 2^n. (2 to the exponent of n)

Lets look at the shield roll on a common 1.0 planetsmasher with 7 shield generators, 7 lasers, and 2 alternate weapons incase of a "swarm".
I have named a bunch of switches "Random Bit 0", "Random Bit 1", "Random Bit 2", and so on. (Below referenced as [R.B. #])
When the planetsmasher gets an attack, the shield roll kicks in, and it uses the randomized switches like this:

[R.B. 2], [R.B. 1], [R.B. 0], [Shield Roll]
cleared, cleared, cleared, 0
cleared, cleared, set, 1
cleared, set, cleared, 2
cleared, set, set, 3
set, cleared, cleared, 4
set, cleared, set, 5
set, set, cleared, 6
set, set, set, 7

It's simple binary representation of numbers, with each switch acting as a single binary bit. 8 bits can yield 256 values (0-255) while 16 bits yields 65??? ("64k") values.
The heaviest use of random switches in the map is in the ship's death explosion-animation.
EDIT: I chose to name the random bit switches the way I did because the numbers remind me of the bit's value when I'm converting binary to decimal. R.B. 0 for example is worth 2^0, and can only add a 1 (or not) to the total decimal value.

In the planned 2.0 weapon damage bell curving, it will be a little more switch intensive, as there are alot more "chances" for the medium numbers to show up. The planned Fusion Beam has 20 numbers in it's damage distribution, so it will need 5 switches, 2^5 = 32, and 12 possibilities will be left over. Unfortunately, this does leave a slight possibility that the game will keep choosing one of the 12 "invalid" values and keep having to re-randomize, but statistically an acceptable value is generated within a few hyper cycles. I have already done this in all cases where the number of shield generators is not equal to [a power of 2 minus 1], and also for rail guns where the damage roll, 0-2, only used up 3 of 4 combinations with 2 randomized switches.

I would use upgrades as means of information. I.E. armor of the ship = equipment/hp Just so we don't have to check back down at the bottom

I would use upgrades as means of information.

I.E. armor of the ship = equipment/hp

Just so we don't have to check back down at the bottom

[quote=name:Kaias]I would use upgrades as means of information. I.E. armor of the ship = equipment/hp Just so we don't have to check back down at the bottom[/quote] Well I had it be the attack which worked for Fighters, Destroyers, and Dreadnoughts, though it did not show up for Cruisers and Planetsmashers, since dropships and command centers dont have attack. If I make it Unit Armor in 2.0 then it will show up for Cruisers but you are eternally out of luck with Planetsmashers. However, something else I've added in 2.0 may please you: At the very start of 2.0 I put in a reference chart! :D For the ships: The ship is on the left. The zerg chrysalises are [color=#86EE59]cost[/color], small = $1 and big = $10 The light blue crystals are [color=#EBEE80]equipment[/color]/[color=#DFA51C]hp*, [/color]once again small/big 1/10. The data discs show the number of [color=#EBEE80]engines per move[/color]. A typical Cruiser immitating 1.0 Cruisers would have 3 engines for 1 move each turn, and 7 equipment spaces left for other stuff. [color=#DFA51C]*[/color] Note: Armor gives more then 1 [color=#DFA51C]HP[/color] per equipment space of armor, so a ship's [color=#DFA51C]HP[/color] is potentially variable now while it's equipment space is not. For the weapons: The weapon is on the left. The [color=#EBEE80]minimum range [/color]is the pale blue crystals. The [color=#DFA51C]maximum range [/color]is the purple-red crystals. The [color=#CE091D]maximum damage [/color]is the psi disruptors. [img=http://i25.tinypic.com/nvy6n6.jpg] On an unrelated tangent... Another note about the engine system... It is possible to have slightly faster variants of a ship at the sacrifice of a weapon or defense item, or a slightly slower but tougher one. Also, there will be no global messages regarding Planetsmasher and Dreadnought movement such as "Planetsmashers will move in 2 turns". A 3 engine destroyer for example would have 5 spaces left for combat items, at the cost of speed. Each engine creates a civ ("Engine Operation Point") under the ship at the beginning of the movement phase. The civs are then removed in multiples of the [color=#EBEE80]engines per move cosntant[/color], and the ship is allowed to move the corresponding distance. In the case of a 3 engine destroyer, it would get 3 civs, subtract 2 for a move point and have 1 left over. The left over civ would just move along with the ship, similar to damage counters. The next turn it gets 1 + 3 = 4 civs, subtract all 4 for TWO move points. So a 3 engine destroyer, with a engines per move constant of 2, would literally move 3/2 = 1.5 over the course of the game. It is possible to get some funny behaviour out of the larger ships with funny numbers of engines, but it always averages out to the proper speed over time. A 4 engine dreadnought would skip moving one turn, and then move four turns in a row. Yet another tangent... balance this time. I believe I was wrong about Deflector Arrays, they need to have a 0-2 roll just like shield generators. Otherwise they are not worth it... you would just get all shields for the best chance at stopping all damage. I've also done some thinking about the [color=#86EE59]Anti-Matter Gun[/color] (Range 3-4 Damage 0-3) and [color=#C876DC]Plasma Cannon[/color] (Range 2-3 Damage 0-5) The fear is that they completely antiquate the 3 classical weapons from version 1.X because the minimum range penalty is not severe enough. Only really fast ships can seriously try to get inside the minimum range of these weapons as it is. What I have in mind is to make the range [color=#CE091D]4 only (4-4)[/color] for [color=#86EE59]Anti-Matter Gun[/color] and [color=#CE091D]3 only (3-3)[/color] for [color=#C876DC]Plasma Cannon[/color]. Your thoughts on these potential balance changes please.

Quote from Kaias

I would use upgrades as means of information.

I.E. armor of the ship = equipment/hp

Just so we don't have to check back down at the bottom

Well I had it be the attack which worked for Fighters, Destroyers, and Dreadnoughts, though it did not show up for Cruisers and Planetsmashers, since dropships and command centers dont have attack. If I make it Unit Armor in 2.0 then it will show up for Cruisers but you are eternally out of luck with Planetsmashers.

However, something else I've added in 2.0 may please you: At the very start of 2.0 I put in a reference chart!
For the ships:
The ship is on the left.
The zerg chrysalises are cost, small = $1 and big = $10
The light blue crystals are equipment/hp*, once again small/big 1/10.
The data discs show the number of engines per move. A typical Cruiser immitating 1.0 Cruisers would have 3 engines for 1 move each turn, and 7 equipment spaces left for other stuff.
* Note: Armor gives more then 1 HP per equipment space of armor, so a ship's HP is potentially variable now while it's equipment space is not.
For the weapons:
The weapon is on the left.
The minimum range is the pale blue crystals.
The maximum range is the purple-red crystals.
The maximum damage is the psi disruptors.


On an unrelated tangent...

Another note about the engine system... It is possible to have slightly faster variants of a ship at the sacrifice of a weapon or defense item, or a slightly slower but tougher one. Also, there will be no global messages regarding Planetsmasher and Dreadnought movement such as "Planetsmashers will move in 2 turns". A 3 engine destroyer for example would have 5 spaces left for combat items, at the cost of speed. Each engine creates a civ ("Engine Operation Point") under the ship at the beginning of the movement phase. The civs are then removed in multiples of the engines per move cosntant, and the ship is allowed to move the corresponding distance. In the case of a 3 engine destroyer, it would get 3 civs, subtract 2 for a move point and have 1 left over. The left over civ would just move along with the ship, similar to damage counters. The next turn it gets 1 + 3 = 4 civs, subtract all 4 for TWO move points. So a 3 engine destroyer, with a engines per move constant of 2, would literally move 3/2 = 1.5 over the course of the game. It is possible to get some funny behaviour out of the larger ships with funny numbers of engines, but it always averages out to the proper speed over time. A 4 engine dreadnought would skip moving one turn, and then move four turns in a row.

Yet another tangent... balance this time.

I believe I was wrong about Deflector Arrays, they need to have a 0-2 roll just like shield generators. Otherwise they are not worth it... you would just get all shields for the best chance at stopping all damage.
I've also done some thinking about the Anti-Matter Gun (Range 3-4 Damage 0-3) and Plasma Cannon (Range 2-3 Damage 0-5)
The fear is that they completely antiquate the 3 classical weapons from version 1.X because the minimum range penalty is not severe enough. Only really fast ships can seriously try to get inside the minimum range of these weapons as it is. What I have in mind is to make the range 4 only (4-4) for Anti-Matter Gun and 3 only (3-3) for Plasma Cannon.
Your thoughts on these potential balance changes please.

The stats chart is an awesome idea. And the engines one sounds fun. I'd make deflector arrays always roll 1. In other words, if your ship has 3 deflector arrays the enemy has to perform more than 3 damage points in the attack phase to actually try to damage the ship. That way deflector arrays are very different from shield generators, because they're not random (you know exactly how many deflector arrays points you get per turn) but they do not regenerate between attacks. Think about it, a ship with 7 deflector arrays can be damaged if attacked by 10 laser attacks (maybe from different ships), but one with 7 shield generators will probably not be damaged.

The stats chart is an awesome idea. And the engines one sounds fun.
I'd make deflector arrays always roll 1. In other words, if your ship has 3 deflector arrays the enemy has to perform more than 3 damage points in the attack phase to actually try to damage the ship.
That way deflector arrays are very different from shield generators, because they're not random (you know exactly how many deflector arrays points you get per turn) but they do not regenerate between attacks.
Think about it, a ship with 7 deflector arrays can be damaged if attacked by 10 laser attacks (maybe from different ships), but one with 7 shield generators will probably not be damaged.

It's Astrogears turned into a board game! :omfg:

It's Astrogears turned into a board game!

[quote=name:Vi3t-X]It's Astrogears turned into a board game! :omfg:[/quote] LIES Nobody plays AG with me D: Everybody plays SCo with me though!

Quote from s(Vi3t-X)9

It's Astrogears turned into a board game!

LIES

Nobody plays AG with me D:

Everybody plays SCo with me though!

This will be great for map night! No one plays this w/ me tho when I host it :(

This will be great for map night! No one plays this w/ me tho when I host it

Holy shit this is great, it's got huge depth with an extremely simple layout and me and my pal picked it up literally in minutes. There's a lot to try, and I've got a few strats to share around [s]maliciously[/s] in a friendly manner at map night. Experiment, experiment experiment. That's how you'll learn. Sometimes you don't need shields either! My only problems are: It's too random I mean seriously, wow I got shot at literally by 12 railguns, and came out unscathed, and that was with 3 shield generators! And it's cruel to the extreme sometimes, a planetsmasher... Dashed by a laser toting BC... All of your ships are identical Yes, this is a problem, it restricts strategy but I realise you probably can't fix this, nonetheless, I find it a pain because now I can't try my 30 fighter fleet strategy.

Holy shit this is great, it's got huge depth with an extremely simple layout and me and my pal picked it up literally in minutes.
There's a lot to try, and I've got a few strats to share around maliciously in a friendly manner at map night.

Experiment, experiment experiment. That's how you'll learn.
Sometimes you don't need shields either!

My only problems are:
It's too random
I mean seriously, wow I got shot at literally by 12 railguns, and came out unscathed, and that was with 3 shield generators! And it's cruel to the extreme sometimes, a planetsmasher... Dashed by a laser toting BC...
All of your ships are identical
Yes, this is a problem, it restricts strategy but I realise you probably can't fix this, nonetheless, I find it a pain because now I can't try my 30 fighter fleet strategy.

[quote=name:candle12345]Holy shit this is great, it's got huge depth with an extremely simple layout and me and my pal picked it up literally in minutes. There's a lot to try, and I've got a few strats to share around [s]maliciously[/s] in a friendly manner at map night. Experiment, experiment experiment. That's how you'll learn. Sometimes you don't need shields either! My only problems are: It's too random I mean seriously, wow I got shot at literally by 12 railguns, and came out unscathed, and that was with 3 shield generators! And it's cruel to the extreme sometimes, a planetsmasher... Dashed by a laser toting BC... All of your ships are identical Yes, this is a problem, it restricts strategy but I realise you probably can't fix this, nonetheless, I find it a pain because now I can't try my 30 fighter fleet strategy.[/quote] Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I do intend to curb down the randomness of weapon attack rolls. See above posts. The ships are the way they are I'm afraid.

Quote from candle12345

Holy shit this is great, it's got huge depth with an extremely simple layout and me and my pal picked it up literally in minutes.
There's a lot to try, and I've got a few strats to share around maliciously in a friendly manner at map night.

Experiment, experiment experiment. That's how you'll learn.
Sometimes you don't need shields either!

My only problems are:
It's too random
I mean seriously, wow I got shot at literally by 12 railguns, and came out unscathed, and that was with 3 shield generators! And it's cruel to the extreme sometimes, a planetsmasher... Dashed by a laser toting BC...
All of your ships are identical
Yes, this is a problem, it restricts strategy but I realise you probably can't fix this, nonetheless, I find it a pain because now I can't try my 30 fighter fleet strategy.

Thanks, I'm glad you like it.
I do intend to curb down the randomness of weapon attack rolls. See above posts.
The ships are the way they are I'm afraid.

I stayed up for an hour thinking up strats and crunching mental numbers when I first played it and got off for bed. I had an epic strat, 3 rows of fighters, the first with 2 shields, the next with 1 shield 1 rail the next with 2 lasers. It just seemed so smart at the time... :( Nonetheless, you've given me a map to play that is much more noob friendly than astrogears, so I'ma play this.

I stayed up for an hour thinking up strats and crunching mental numbers when I first played it and got off for bed.
I had an epic strat, 3 rows of fighters, the first with 2 shields, the next with 1 shield 1 rail the next with 2 lasers.

It just seemed so smart at the time...

Nonetheless, you've given me a map to play that is much more noob friendly than astrogears, so I'ma play this.

Actually, it wouldn't be too difficult to have different ship types (at least if its done the way I think it is) Its just he doesn't want you to have to memorize all sorts of ship types individually. Simplifies things.

Actually, it wouldn't be too difficult to have different ship types (at least if its done the way I think it is)

Its just he doesn't want you to have to memorize all sorts of ship types individually. Simplifies things.

[quote=name:candle12345]I stayed up for an hour thinking up strats and crunching mental numbers when I first played it and got off for bed. I had an epic strat, 3 rows of fighters, the first with 2 shields, the next with 1 shield 1 rail the next with 2 lasers. It just seemed so smart at the time... :( Nonetheless, you've given me a map to play that is much more noob friendly than astrogears, so I'ma play this.[/quote] The map does not allow you to create a design with 0 weapons. No offense but... a 2 shield fighter at the front could only act as a decoy for the first turn... As soon as an enemy player sees "Damaged: Shield Generator" twice in a row on a fighter's turn during the Damage Phase he would stop targeting your 2 shield fighters and just go for the harmful ones. [quote=name:Kaias]Actually, it wouldn't be too difficult to have different ship types (at least if its done the way I think it is) Its just he doesn't want you to have to memorize all sorts of ship types individually. Simplifies things.[/quote] This is true, there are ways to do it. The first involves hero units, but would only work for Fighter, Dreadnought, and Planetsmashers. Either that or you would have some ugly Destroyers and Cruisers. The second way involves ground units underneath to represent individual designs for the same ship type, just like a damage counter. I think gameplay would get annoying if you had to click a unit ,be it the ship for hero/normal distinction, or a ground unit underneath. It would become a memory game as you'd be struggling to remember that Defiler + Valk = 2 lasers 2 shields while Vulture + Valk = 3 torpedoes 1 shield. This would force players to take even more time when considering their moves and targets because of the extra checking required.

Quote from candle12345

I stayed up for an hour thinking up strats and crunching mental numbers when I first played it and got off for bed.
I had an epic strat, 3 rows of fighters, the first with 2 shields, the next with 1 shield 1 rail the next with 2 lasers.

It just seemed so smart at the time...

Nonetheless, you've given me a map to play that is much more noob friendly than astrogears, so I'ma play this.

The map does not allow you to create a design with 0 weapons. No offense but... a 2 shield fighter at the front could only act as a decoy for the first turn... As soon as an enemy player sees "Damaged: Shield Generator" twice in a row on a fighter's turn during the Damage Phase he would stop targeting your 2 shield fighters and just go for the harmful ones.

Quote from Kaias

Actually, it wouldn't be too difficult to have different ship types (at least if its done the way I think it is)

Its just he doesn't want you to have to memorize all sorts of ship types individually. Simplifies things.

This is true, there are ways to do it. The first involves hero units, but would only work for Fighter, Dreadnought, and Planetsmashers. Either that or you would have some ugly Destroyers and Cruisers. The second way involves ground units underneath to represent individual designs for the same ship type, just like a damage counter. I think gameplay would get annoying if you had to click a unit ,be it the ship for hero/normal distinction, or a ground unit underneath. It would become a memory game as you'd be struggling to remember that Defiler + Valk = 2 lasers 2 shields while Vulture + Valk = 3 torpedoes 1 shield. This would force players to take even more time when considering their moves and targets because of the extra checking required.

You know, you could represent the unit equipment in a specific location within each tile. Actually, show the equipment. Then you could just represent damaged equipment by moving say the equipment from the left to the right. That way it wouldn't be a memorization game and you could make specific ships or ship variants. It wouldn't be too difficult either. Just a simple mobile grid.

You know, you could represent the unit equipment in a specific location within each tile. Actually, show the equipment. Then you could just represent damaged equipment by moving say the equipment from the left to the right. That way it wouldn't be a memorization game and you could make specific ships or ship variants.

It wouldn't be too difficult either. Just a simple mobile grid.

Exploit found, Siege tanks on the field, done by picking up the finished tank with a dropship in the ship purchase area. Leads to all sorts of problems, moving attacking units to different squares, removing damage tokens off units which as far as I kno wactually heals them. It's exploit capabilities were revealed to me in a game vs perkflames... Picture attached

Exploit found,
Siege tanks on the field, done by picking up the finished tank with a dropship in the ship purchase area.

Leads to all sorts of problems, moving attacking units to different squares, removing damage tokens off units which as far as I kno wactually heals them.

It's exploit capabilities were revealed to me in a game vs perkflames...

Picture attached

[quote=name:Kaias]You know, you could represent the unit equipment in a specific location within each tile. Actually, show the equipment. Then you could just represent damaged equipment by moving say the equipment from the left to the right. That way it wouldn't be a memorization game and you could make specific ships or ship variants. It wouldn't be too difficult either. Just a simple mobile grid.[/quote] That is a great idea, though it would require a full remake... even the progress I have on 2.0 would be screwed. -.- The only issue I see is that with the larger ships sometimes ground units are hidden so you can't tell whats there. The reason it would require a remake is that the whole way the game counts equipment for targeting and damage would have to change, the design system would need an overhaul so you can change the design after placing a ship of the current design, and the starting-placement system would need to spawn equipment after finalizing a ship's position by giving it to P5 or P6 (Orange/Teal)

Quote from Kaias

You know, you could represent the unit equipment in a specific location within each tile. Actually, show the equipment. Then you could just represent damaged equipment by moving say the equipment from the left to the right. That way it wouldn't be a memorization game and you could make specific ships or ship variants.

It wouldn't be too difficult either. Just a simple mobile grid.

That is a great idea, though it would require a full remake... even the progress I have on 2.0 would be screwed. -.-
The only issue I see is that with the larger ships sometimes ground units are hidden so you can't tell whats there. The reason it would require a remake is that the whole way the game counts equipment for targeting and damage would have to change, the design system would need an overhaul so you can change the design after placing a ship of the current design, and the starting-placement system would need to spawn equipment after finalizing a ship's position by giving it to P5 or P6 (Orange/Teal)

[quote=name:candle12345]Exploit found, Siege tanks on the field, done by picking up the finished tank with a dropship in the ship purchase area. Leads to all sorts of problems, moving attacking units to different squares, removing damage tokens off units which as far as I kno wactually heals them. It's exploit capabilities were revealed to me in a game vs perkflames... Picture attached[/quote] Uh yeah thats a serious bug.. mind you its also blatantly obvious so I mean.... you either have a game with sportsmanship or you dont have a game. Still, I'll see about making a 1.04 with that fixed, as well as a minor change to the First Player Determination thing after mineral setting (ws-Impeached pointed out that P2 cant see P1's Dark Templar and its hard to tell what gets picked until the game starts)

Quote from candle12345

Exploit found,
Siege tanks on the field, done by picking up the finished tank with a dropship in the ship purchase area.

Leads to all sorts of problems, moving attacking units to different squares, removing damage tokens off units which as far as I kno wactually heals them.

It's exploit capabilities were revealed to me in a game vs perkflames...

Picture attached

Uh yeah thats a serious bug.. mind you its also blatantly obvious so I mean.... you either have a game with sportsmanship or you dont have a game. Still, I'll see about making a 1.04 with that fixed, as well as a minor change to the First Player Determination thing after mineral setting (ws-Impeached pointed out that P2 cant see P1's Dark Templar and its hard to tell what gets picked until the game starts)

Good to know. And I agree, if someone exploits, you just leave. That easy. But still, better to remove the problem than leave it to trust.

Good to know. And I agree, if someone exploits, you just leave. That easy.

But still, better to remove the problem than leave it to trust.

Love it. Can't wait for ver.2 to be out. As for exploit...I have never seen anyone use it, despite it's already quite well known...I mean...maps like these requires great patience and wisdom, and those who possess both are those who never/rarely cheats...but if you want to fix it, I think it's simple enough just to add a repeating trigger that constantly removes all tanks and sieged tanks within the board at any time of the game? Or just making the damage counters invincible...(which should be more work)

Love it. Can't wait for ver.2 to be out.

As for exploit...I have never seen anyone use it, despite it's already quite well known...I mean...maps like these requires great patience and wisdom, and those who possess both are those who never/rarely cheats...but if you want to fix it, I think it's simple enough just to add a repeating trigger that constantly removes all tanks and sieged tanks within the board at any time of the game?

Or just making the damage counters invincible...(which should be more work)

No it doesn't remoce damage counters by killing them, it just lures them away because it's not invincible.

No it doesn't remoce damage counters by killing them, it just lures them away because it's not invincible.

Well then make the tank invincible as well...

Well then make the tank invincible as well...