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Quote from AntiSleep

To claim that something cannot be explained by science, isn't that a bit premature?

Then explain the DNA helix pattern. It doesn't follow any scientific law.

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Relatively ancient and inactive

And two thousand yours ago, we thought the world was flat. Until someone PROVES something cannot be explained by science, it can be explained by science.

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Quote from Centreri

And two thousand yours ago, we thought the world was flat. Until someone PROVES something cannot be explained by science, it can be explained by science.

Um. The first part was unnecessary. Anyways then prove this.
Explain the DNA helix pattern. It doesn't follow any scientific law.

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Relatively ancient and inactive

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Anyways then prove this.

I can't prove that it can be explained by science, but since no one can prove that it can't, we can at the very least make no conclusion.

If you're too stupid to comprehend what the point of my post was (which, if you said all that came to your mind, you were), it was this: As science progresses, we make new laws and prove things that were before 'unprovable'. If this was 2000 years ago, instead of the helix, you would have said 'Okay, prove that the Earth is round.. it doesn't make any sense', and here we are, all knowing that the earth is round.

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Quote from JordanN

Quote from Centreri

And two thousand yours ago, we thought the world was flat. Until someone PROVES something cannot be explained by science, it can be explained by science.

Um. The first part was unnecessary. Anyways then prove this.
Explain the DNA helix pattern. It doesn't follow any scientific law.

It does, the bonds of the deoxyribose molecules order in that pattern when they are also bonded to nucleotides.

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Quote from devilesk

Quote from isolatedpurity

Quote from devilesk

Ignore that, you don't get off that easily. You state infinity is illogical, you have the burden of proof. Now prove it.

BTW, infinity is logical.

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Holy fuck. This is where you fail.
You prove relativity to me. Especially since it's even labeled as a theory.
And then you say "prove god" or "prove relativity doesn't exist".
And I'll say touch�, but I'm not the one saying "you are wrong, ~~all your beliefs are based on faith and faith only (which isn't necessarily true)".~~ and you need to convince me my own theories aren't true while I just sit here.

Burden of proof? You are the one that says time can be infinite. You prove it to me.

And infinity is not logical because how can you have an infinite amount of anything?
Some say the universe is infinite, but how exactly do you prove that? Where do you travel to get to finally say "Yeah, the universe is infinite?"

Hmmm think about this: If something takes infinite years to grow, at what point does it actually do some growing? The answer is never. You stretch the duration it takes for it to grow by one even one cell into non-existence. You can travel to any point in time and it will still be the same as it was at any other time. If you stretch time back into infinity, you are saying it took infinite amount of years to get to this point in time. Wtf does that mean? And that's how it's illogical.

First of all you do have burden of proof:

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lol @ a universe just existing...
with a past time line going into infinity, all the events that are happening now would have happened infinite seconds ago...
am i right?

Not only that, but because you are making the assertion that an infinite timeline and infinity itself is illogical. Burden of proof lies with you.

Ah, but you are saying the universe can always exist. And with that assertion comes the infinite timeline.
I'm just saying that's not logical.

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How can I have any infinite amount of anything?

Numbers. In mathematics the concept of infinity is logically defined and math is one of the most logical things there is. So saying infinity is illogical is false.

Show me infinite quantity of anything. When you can do that, you'll prove infinity is logical.

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And we're talking about time. You can have a finite universe, but with an infinite timeline. Infinity is a concept, a property/quality not a quantity.

Infinity is a quantity when you attach it to something. Infinite apples = ∞ apples

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Hmmm think about this: If something takes infinite years to grow, at what point does it actually do some growing? The answer is never. You stretch the duration it takes for it to grow by one even one cell into non-existence. You can travel to any point in time and it will still be the same as it was at any other time. If you stretch time back into infinity, you are saying it took infinite amount of years to get to this point in time. Wtf does that mean? And that's how it's illogical.

Point A exists at (0,0) and point B exists at (1,0). There's an infinite amount of points between them, but the distance is still 1.

You are avoiding actually thinking about what I'm saying.

I don't think you actually care about really thinking about the conversation. You're either close-minded, dense, or just trolling.

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A circle has an infinite amount of reflections down the middle.
Prove to me that it is finite and I'll change my mind.

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Quote from isolatedpurity

Quote from devilesk

Quote from isolatedpurity

Quote from devilesk

Ignore that, you don't get off that easily. You state infinity is illogical, you have the burden of proof. Now prove it.

BTW, infinity is logical.

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Holy fuck. This is where you fail.
You prove relativity to me. Especially since it's even labeled as a theory.
And then you say "prove god" or "prove relativity doesn't exist".
And I'll say touch�, but I'm not the one saying "you are wrong, ~~all your beliefs are based on faith and faith only (which isn't necessarily true)".~~ and you need to convince me my own theories aren't true while I just sit here.

Burden of proof? You are the one that says time can be infinite. You prove it to me.

And infinity is not logical because how can you have an infinite amount of anything?
Some say the universe is infinite, but how exactly do you prove that? Where do you travel to get to finally say "Yeah, the universe is infinite?"

Hmmm think about this: If something takes infinite years to grow, at what point does it actually do some growing? The answer is never. You stretch the duration it takes for it to grow by one even one cell into non-existence. You can travel to any point in time and it will still be the same as it was at any other time. If you stretch time back into infinity, you are saying it took infinite amount of years to get to this point in time. Wtf does that mean? And that's how it's illogical.

First of all you do have burden of proof:

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lol @ a universe just existing...
with a past time line going into infinity, all the events that are happening now would have happened infinite seconds ago...
am i right?

Not only that, but because you are making the assertion that an infinite timeline and infinity itself is illogical. Burden of proof lies with you.

Ah, but you are saying the universe can always exist. And with that assertion comes the infinite timeline.
I'm just saying that's not logical.

I'm not saying the universe can always exist. I'm saying a timeline can be infinite. And that's the point, you're saying infinity is not logical, you have burden of proof.

Quote from isolatedpurity

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How can I have any infinite amount of anything?

Numbers. In mathematics the concept of infinity is logically defined and math is one of the most logical things there is. So saying infinity is illogical is false.

Show me infinite quantity of anything. When you can do that, you'll prove infinity is logical.

Infinity is not a quantity.
You might as well show me time, are you saying time is illogical? Are ideas illogical? They aren't real so they must not exist!

Quote limit.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 30 2008, 3:56 pm by devilesk.

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Quote from isolatedpurity

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And we're talking about time. You can have a finite universe, but with an infinite timeline. Infinity is a concept, a property/quality not a quantity.

Infinity is a quantity when you attach it to something. Infinite apples = ∞ apples

No it's not a quantity when you attach it to something. It's a property of a collection.

Quote from isolatedpurity

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Hmmm think about this: If something takes infinite years to grow, at what point does it actually do some growing? The answer is never. You stretch the duration it takes for it to grow by one even one cell into non-existence. You can travel to any point in time and it will still be the same as it was at any other time. If you stretch time back into infinity, you are saying it took infinite amount of years to get to this point in time. Wtf does that mean? And that's how it's illogical.

Point A exists at (0,0) and point B exists at (1,0). There's an infinite amount of points between them, but the distance is still 1.

You are avoiding actually thinking about what I'm saying.

I don't think you actually care about really thinking about the conversation. You're either close-minded, dense, or just trolling.

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Quote from Anonymous

A circle has an infinite amount of reflections down the middle.
Prove to me that it is finite and I'll change my mind.

Prove that what about the circle is finite? it's area?

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Quote from Doodle77

Quote from Anonymous

A circle has an infinite amount of reflections down the middle.
Prove to me that it is finite and I'll change my mind.

Prove that what about the circle is finite? it's area?

According to Anonymous's post
Prove "A circle has a finite amount of reflections down the middle."

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Ok, as far as this whole "time can't be infinite" thing.
Time is infinite. If there is a time, there is a time after that and before that. There are an infinite number of times between now and one second from now, but there is only one second between now and one second from now. This is because time is infinitely subdividable, but despite all measures of time being infinte, you can still compare them. This concept is called the cardinality of the continuum

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Quote from Doodle77

Ok, as far as this whole "time can't be infinite" thing.
Time is infinite. If there is a time, there is a time after that and before that. There are an infinite number of times between now and one second from now, but there is only one second between now and one second from now. This is because time is infinitely subdividable, but despite all measures of time being infinte, you can still compare them. This concept is called cardinality

Looks familiar

Quote from isolatedpurity

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Hmmm think about this: If something takes infinite years to grow, at what point does it actually do some growing? The answer is never. You stretch the duration it takes for it to grow by one even one cell into non-existence. You can travel to any point in time and it will still be the same as it was at any other time. If you stretch time back into infinity, you are saying it took infinite amount of years to get to this point in time. Wtf does that mean? And that's how it's illogical.

Point A exists at (0,0) and point B exists at (1,0). There's an infinite amount of points between them, but the distance is still 1.

You are avoiding actually thinking about what I'm saying.

I don't think you actually care about really thinking about the conversation. You're either close-minded, dense, or just trolling.

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Quote from isolatedpurity

I don't think you actually care about really thinking about the conversation. You're either close-minded, dense, or just trolling.

Actually IP, he's just arguing the point on the same level as you. He has made plenty of valid points. And in your last post, all you did was gradually tell him he's not listening to you hard enough, and therefore you must be right. Now that is illogical.

Look, the point of infinity isn't that an infinite quantity of anything exists, the point is that an infinite quantity of anything can exist when applying it to your desired universe scenarios.

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Quote from devilesk

Point A exists at (0,0) and point B exists at (1,0). There's an infinite amount of points between them, but the distance is still 1.

Not entirely true, but for all intents and purposes, you just destroyed IP's earlier argument. Thank you.

Quote from JordanN

Quote from AntiSleep

To claim that something cannot be explained by science, isn't that a bit premature?

Then explain the DNA helix pattern. It doesn't follow any scientific law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_bond

Lolwut?

Quote from Doodle77

Ok, as far as this whole "time can't be infinite" thing.
Time is infinite. If there is a time, there is a time after that and before that. There are an infinite number of times between now and one second from now, but there is only one second between now and one second from now. This is because time is infinitely subdividable, but despite all measures of time being infinte, you can still compare them. This concept is called the cardinality of the continuum

Plank time. :mad:

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Blah. You are all missing the point entirely. Or dividing the point in pieces to divide and conquer the idea. I guess I'm helping though.
When I talk about infinity, it relates to something concrete. Is time concrete? No, not really. But time = existence. It takes me 4 minutes to write this post. Point A (start post) to B (push submit) = 4 minutes. If A goes into infinity, when do we get to point B?

Now in the argument, point A could be considered the universe's creation. Which there is no defined point if it always exists. But point B is "this second".
infnity <--------------B (right now)
.............. ^--- wtf

So not only is there no point A, there is no A<----B relation. Time fails.

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See above for the reason of my texts.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 30 2008, 6:08 pm by isolatedpurity.

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Quote from isolatedpurity

Blah. You are all missing the point entirely. Or dividing the point in pieces to divide and conquer the idea. I guess I'm helping though.
When I talk about infinity, it relates to something concrete. Is time concrete? No, not really. But time = existence. It takes me 4 minutes to write this post. Point A (start post) to B (push submit) = 4 minutes. If A goes into infinity, when do we get to point B?

Now in the argument, point A could be considered the universe's creation. Which there is no defined point if it always exists. But point B is "this second".
infnity <--------------B (right now)
.............. ^--- wtf

Infinity is not a number. You can't count up from A because it's not a number or a definite point. However, that still doesn't mean you never reach point B or that a point infinitely preceeding B doesn't make sense.

Time != existence.

Infinity doesn't have to be concrete.

Furthermore, you're saying point A can't be defined, therefore your example fails because you're just defined a point A as the start, and not only that you defined the time from point A to point B which is 4 minutes. You can't then say point A extends into infinity, because it doesn't.

Quote from isolatedpurity

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See above for the reason of my texts.

Your "reasons" are wrong, which is why your condescending remarks are not valid.

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So not only is there no point A, there is no A<----B relation. Time fails.

You're failing in attempting to show how an infinite timeline is illogical, let alone infinity itself being illogical.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 30 2008, 6:21 pm by devilesk.

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Time != existence

Take away time and then define our existance. We would be motionless, thoughtless, static drawings on a universal 3D paper.

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Furthermore, you're saying point A can't be defined, therefore your example fails because you're just defined a point A as the start, and not only that you defined the time from point A to point B which is 4 minutes. You can't then say point A extends into infinity, because it doesn't.

Then forget my analogy. But point B is right now, and we came from a non-existent point A which is doing it's non-existing somewhere out in infinity land. And that makes sense to you?

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let alone infinity itself being illogical.

Infinity is illogical when it is a number. Not necessarily infinity itself.

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Quote from isolatedpurity

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Time != existence

Take away time and then define our existance. We would be motionless, thoughtless, static drawings on a universal 3D paper.

And?

Quote from isolatedpurity

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Furthermore, you're saying point A can't be defined, therefore your example fails because you're just defined a point A as the start, and not only that you defined the time from point A to point B which is 4 minutes. You can't then say point A extends into infinity, because it doesn't.

Then forget my analogy. But point B is right now, and we came from a non-existent point A which is doing it's non-existing somewhere out in infinity land. And that makes sense to you?

Yes

Quote from isolatedpurity

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let alone infinity itself being illogical.

Infinity is illogical when it is a number. Not necessarily infinity itself.

Infinity is never a number, not even in an infinite timeline.

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Quote from devilesk

Quote from isolatedpurity

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let alone infinity itself being illogical.

Infinity is illogical when it is a number. Not necessarily infinity itself.

Infinity is never a number, not even in an infinite timeline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_line ;o

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