Luzz you misunderstand what I am saying.
I never argued with volt's abilities, I think they are excellent.
I am not asking to keep the gateways to cast spells or anything like that.

My best example is to keep heros in the class they belong:
Damage
-is it melee? spell? straight dps?
-if it's dps then do it's other spells complement him? would adding a stun make players not choose a unit designed for stuns? would he be OP?

Support
-healer? buffer? (think of dark mage l2/l3 from TS1)

Stunners
-how long? whats the method? (compare volt stun to assaults grenade stun)

Combining classes makes no sense, why would we want every hero to be able to 'superman' the game?
Stick with 3v3... 5v5 soo hard to balance as this is NOT LoL and there is no jungle/carry/tank/etc...

Also a question.. When do you think assimilators will be implemented? And how so will they be implemented?

Assimilators are there... We need a way to say that a probe can be built from the temple... xD assimilators work, but they may give too much money too fast. But just know that they are there, you can also build cannons, both greater and lesser.

From what I understood you were saying that having mutants l4 be chaos mutation was like we were sticking to TS1 abilities, when you thought we were trying to change them. The volt avility examples were just to prove that we are trying to keep the same effect, but add a micro or some other mechanic that wasn't there to make up for the gateway micro.

Bottom line, we are sticking to the original spells and heroes when it is possible, and when it won't seem stupid to new players (like spawning 20 dts around the warrior, no that I don't like this idea xD, it works great, just would look strange for new people used to a game like LoL or DotA). If we do change the spell, we are trying to keep the same spell mechanic that the original had.

I've played other AoS maps like:
City of Tempest
Hero Attack
LoL
Sotis

There are abilities that resemble mechanics from TS1 in them, so it wouldn't be unrecognizable.

Like, spawning a unit that you move and control that blows up after 5 seconds..? What types of spells? I know making an ability like Volts original l2 would be pretty simplistic and easy to understand. In fact, most of the abilities in TS1 were very intuitive, you spawn units, they attack and do damage. But explosions and things like that relay the "ouch" message the same way xD

@Vortex

Let's address some of the concerns first.

@Spec Ops
- There is no reason to have a building build a nuke because that does not fit the current UI. Something else will have to take place in the L4 area, such as spawning a ghost to launch the nuke. We can make it spawn a ghost, but we're going to try this approach first.
- Also, because we can alter the speed and damage of the nuke to be more or less effective, there is no reason to make Nuke so difficult to make. Instead, it should be difficult to use. In other words, we take away the damage from nukes and make it faster and more usable.

@Mutant
- Yes, that's what I pointed out. We're planning to have ground spikes go towards target area. Afterwards, creep will spawn, the creep basically represents an area where more spikes will spawn if enemies walk onto them.
- Yes, we're not trying to replicate TS1. However, this mechanic in TS1 is fine, so we'll leave it here.

@Medic
- Medic in TS1 lacked any sort of attacking spell. I felt that this should be an aspect that's changed.

@Warrior
- It is L2 OR L3. I am undecided whether charge of courage is going to be L2 or L3. 80 mana for a charge attack that may completely miss seems bad. 50 mana for a spawn killing spell may be too OP.

@Your concenrs
- Knockup/knockback is visually appealing as well as mechanically functional. It adds depth to the game. Also, we can't really spawn units and have them attack as if they're spells, as that mechanic is obsolete in SC2. This, of course, takes away trapping mechanics from the old spells, which is why we need to implement some sort of knockup/knockback/immobilization. (I also personally hate the floaty feeling of units in SC2, and I am heavily inspired by the maps by Mephs (?) who was inspired by Bloodline Champions.)
- The passive/innate abilities are ideas. They are analogous to psionic storm for the Light mage in TS1. Yeah, we might not need one for every hero.
- I'm not sure where you got the idea that we're only catering to noobs.
- I watched a gameplay video of M.U.L.E. but i don't really get it. Mind explaining?

---

Anyway, I hope that you're not making your judgement from my post, which is mostly ideas.
We will see how things go and I will keep your concerns in mind.

Also, luzz, we need to get the survey out. I want to get some better data than typing paragraphs out and trying to find out what's wrong done it

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 5 2012, 6:13 am by UnholyUrine.

I agree with all except since it is L4 it should be harder to use but more powerful, so it can be skillfully used rather than spamfully. I'd say at least half the units don't have trapping mechanics in TS1 anyways.

I say catering to noobs as in making it more oriented for people who just want to run in and click the hotkey to cast a spell and nothing further. I don't think we're making the game for people with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome lol..

The other day I really enjoyed playing spec ops because I got to control the hero, gizmo, and sci vessel all at same time to synergize the stun from gizmo, the irad from scivessel incase of escape, and the damage and slowing effects of L1 from mine. It was fun to control 4 different effects at once. That's the micro and skill I'm talking about

Heck yes!! Those are the types of abilities and things we are trying to think about because of the lack of gateway micro. I currently have a few spell ideas. Let me run some of them by you.

The first one is for mutant l3.

The mutant would spawn a lurker at the target location that would last for say 6 seconds. During the time the lurker would attack all nearby units at the same time (same lurker attack, just at every single enemy unit that is nearby). The attack would be the regular attack speed, but the lurker would have an ability that could be used every half second that would basically simulate the lurkers basic attack.

If used correctly, a massive amount of damage could be dealt by the lurker if the player can successfully micro the lurkers attacks and the mutant at the same time. Noobs wouldn't need the micro because the lurker has a basic attack, just spamming the ability makes it deal nearly triple the normal amount.


This one is for another unknown hero, but would involve a lot of micro.

The hero would spawn 3-4 flames around him, that he could then select and order to attack a target unit. This would make people use the orbs to target a single unit, and they would have to tell them to attack a single unit (which could be hard if the unit was small like the mutant) a single misclick will make them all deal damage to the wrong unit.

If we made this, the flames would explode after like 6 seconds, dealing damage to any unit near it. If players utilized all the aspects of this spell, they could deal either devastating to damage to a single opponent, moderately high damage to multiple targets, or no damage at all if they get to ambitious


How do these spells sound? They can be both noob friendly, and would have a high skill cap for very good players who micro well. Good ideas? Sorry for the defensivism earlier

Had a brainstorm and found out a big problem...

with Fungal growth at 10+2.5 per half second for 6 seconds, at 10 upgrades, it will be doing 420 damage.
with LM's L2 at 200+11.. at 10 upgrades it will be doing 330 damage.

Here're a few things to change in order to balance it out.

1. Change fungal growth to 8+2. all else the same
2. Change Lm's L2 to 250+25.
3. Might need to re-evaluate the HP upgrades, as I evaluated its recent change from LM's L2 damage.
4. Lower the range on Mutant's L2's Knockup (but don't lower the range on the tentacles).
EDIT: lower the range of LM's L2 a bit.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 5 2012, 10:22 pm by UnholyUrine.

REQUEST: When assassin teleports, center screen over him.

I don't like it constantly centering, but i need it to when I teleport to the edge of the screen.


Edit: The bleed thing seems unnecessary. It's not bad or imbalanced, just unnecessary. It's really just poison with a different name. I'm guessing it was added to put something new in for assassin, but I think it doesn't add enough to be worth it.
It definitely adds more strategy and depth, but at the cost of simplicity. I feel that a lot of simplicity is being sacrificed for just a little bit of added depth.

That's just how I feel from one game though. I could definitely change my mind after more testing, because it's not a bad thing at all. Just maybe unnecessary.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 5 2012, 10:17 pm by ClansAreForGays.

I don't think we will do this, but we may add a way to immediately center your screen over your hero to make it easier to find yourself. If we do this, it will replace the need for the screen centering for teleports.

I like that too.

Make spacebar centre over the hero whenever you press it, for all heroes. Then for assassin, you'd "Q click spacebar" to have that effect.

news:
-made the damage changes Unholy suggested
-Spacebar now centers onto the hero. Maybe there will be problems with the alert centering within the sc2 engine, but I think I disabled all alerts that could happen.
-Summoner's lings and ultralisks can capture and abort their enemy capture now
-added UI on the left side which displays the hero deaths and the killer + assists with the assists ordered in a chronological order via bubblesort It's similar to LoL's thing on the right side. A player assists, if he damages or debuffs a hero. The assist timer lasts 10 seconds.


^ kill display on the left side, new UI layout on the top and top right area


^ if someone is eliminated a skull appears

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Jul 7 2012, 1:13 am by Ahli.

Amazing Ahli!! Keep up the good work, and I'm sorry I can not help you currently

Nice assist feature Ahli, looks like some good updates. In the second picture I really don't like the full-colored units, they look like something made out of play-doh rather than a hero with defined features. Is there any way to make the hero appear on minimap while still keeping unit design intact colorwise?

The raynor marine model is tinted because its texture has no player color. So I tinted it in player color. Else every spec ops would be black. I think with texture modifications, it would be possible to add player color to it in a normal way.

I can modify the radius a unit has on the minimap. Minimap appearance and the unit's appearance on the screen are separated.

Alright that sounds excellent, just don't enlarge the radius of the unit too much. Also I liked to test some more, with or without your presence.

We don't need to make the players an easily see able color (because I don't think there are enough if it is a 5v5), we can just make the heroes mini map radius bigger so thy stand out. We wouldn't need different colors if we did this, it would be easy enough to spot them on the mini map.

And to add to that, you could add custom unit minimap icons if its really that big of an issue.

UPDATE:

To those who read, I know it's been a while. It's because I've been busy with my exams, and luzz have been on vacation.
So just to keep you guys up to date and have ur interests back, here are some updates.

• LM's L2 has changed from what we call the "Bomb-drop model" (Target location gets a projectile dropped at it after a lagtime) into the "Energy Ball model" (LM targets location, a energy ball is shot towards it and explodes @ target location). At the moment, it is made so that it explodes if it touches any enemies OR if it's reached the target location. The range is the same, however, the damage decreases the farther away the energy ball explodes. ATM, it does a range of 400-200 damage.
  
• LM's L1 has changed to have armor reduction = 0.5. This means that armor will be less effective (basically a general buff)
  
• Mutant's L2 is completed, and it is awesome.
  
• Mutant's L3 has been decided and is in the works. We'll see how it turns out.
  
• **We are currently discussing ways to make players interact in the areas in-between paths. What we are planning is to have something, most likely Protoss talismans/relics, randomly spawn in a set place (one between top-mid path, and one between bot-mid path). This thing must either be captured (i.e. have hero unit stand close to it for x seconds) or be harvested with a peon. These talismans will give the team that captures it a positive effect. Here are some ideas:

** basically, we're looking for ways to make those areas not so much of a deadzone like it is now.
Any suggestions and ideas will be appreciated

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 20 2012, 11:47 pm by UnholyUrine.