Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Temple Siege 1.7 vpre-beta
Temple Siege 1.7 vpre-beta
Apr 23 2011, 12:22 pm
By: FlashBeer  

Apr 23 2011, 12:22 pm FlashBeer Post #1



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Meanwhile at Flashbeer's...




No, I'm not Dead yet...
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With development time in the SC realm equivalent to Duke Nukem Forever or SCII... I'm eager to unleash my next developmental version of Temple Siege 1.7— test phase pre-beta, version 0. There will be GREAT bugs, the road to balancing perfection will be long if not impossible— however, I plan to revolutionize the way people play Temple Siege. My version of TS began its divergent evolution from how most know it today, showing only a glimpse of a pre-mature and highly untested version. Now after having time to assess and reflect on the changes, as well as having one additional YEAR, there are much more refinements. Reorganizing ALL of Unholy's triggers was a complete b!tch, but now future edits will be much quicker. New terrain, new spells, new possibilities for builds and combos, improved aesthetics/text systems, even augmenting some of CAFG's changes. I will need YOUR help to test— search for bugs, tell me what is imbalanced!

NEW CHANGES (vpre-beta)




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Apr 23 2011, 12:23 pm FlashBeer Post #2



OLD CHANGES (vAlpha)




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Apr 23 2011, 12:23 pm FlashBeer Post #3



OLD CHANGES (v1.6 beta)


Some of the main points to recall of my version are:
Kills-to-cash system- for choosing the exp worth of kills as to not over/underfeed; also allows for spawn order of zealots before marines.
Morale system- as another competitive resource for stronger spawn and more cash earned by sims.
Game selection modes- to choose between all random, selection mode, alternative-select (tourney-style), and even sandbox mode for experimentation.
New terrain, new heroes, and additional spells.

I really have tried to think of every scenario I could, to allow for changes of greater balance, diversity of play-styles, innovation, and convenience.
I still have many further ideas to come. I plan to implement Earth Demon again as well. Would anyone like to see a choice for a starport spell-casting system installed later? Does anyone know any good anti-hacks to install in the map?

Map will be posted very soon. I will be testing later today after work.
Happy Belated April Fools! /troll




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Apr 23 2011, 2:37 pm ClansAreForGays Post #4



Read through about half the new changes. I really like everything you've done to the general game and aesthetics, I just don't like the spell changes. (Although spell stacking is a great and overdue idea) Are you going to be spreading this more on West or East?




Apr 23 2011, 6:17 pm FlashBeer Post #5



Any particular spell changes that don't sound good? (Or you just don't like the change in general of spells?)

The spell changes were made to either create balance or give the players more flexibility. For example, Summoner's spells balance by centering more of the power around himself, causing the Summoner himself to be used. Most of Light Mage's spells have secondary functions other than just damage—Teleport/ranged sneak attacks for L3, Team night vision for L4. Mech's L2 change to wraiths make specifically creates a powerful spell for a run-and-gun hunting build, while his vulture form is less pwnage early game if he chooses to upgrade all his forms with vehicle attack, all without having to sacrifice vult speed for balance. A few were made just to further define a hero- such as Volt L4 running until all of his mana is drained, which is different from Mutant L4 which can now cast spells. Marine & Firebat's changes were to define their differing niches from your version.

East of course.



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Apr 24 2011, 6:19 pm Gladius_Tito Post #6



You shouldn't have the 7 second healing after warp gates get killed disabled just because no players are near - I've seen many players killed at temple by spawn while I'm defending my own base.

You've also made a lot of the spells and heroes useless. Basically all your changes have screwed up the balance of the characters. There are too many to name all.

BTW, shouldn't a thread in the Map Showcase have a download for the map? Or did I just miss it.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 24 2011, 6:31 pm by Gladius_Tito.



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Apr 24 2011, 6:48 pm Sacrieur Post #7

Still Napping

Quote from Gladius_Tito
You shouldn't have the 7 second healing after warp gates get killed disabled just because no players are near - I've seen many players killed at temple by spawn while I'm defending my own base.

You've also made a lot of the spells and heroes useless. Basically all your changes have screwed up the balance of the characters. There are too many to name all.

BTW, shouldn't a thread in the Map Showcase have a download for the map? Or did I just miss it.

With all due respect sir, it is in alpha. Balance issues are to be expected. That said I rather enjoyed it, balance should be tested a bit later on. Oh, and regular TS was never completely balanced. Balance means there should be no hard counters.



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Apr 24 2011, 8:02 pm FlashBeer Post #8



Quote from Gladius_Tito
You shouldn't have the 7 second healing after warp gates get killed disabled just because no players are near - I've seen many players killed at temple by spawn while I'm defending my own base.
It can happen, but generally players can survive spawn itself pretty easy, then just bulk up (almost indefinitely) from training. At least with spawn attacking the temple there is more pressure to make a push back because the temple can't heal. Also players can more easily decide to kill the enemy heroes or the temple; if they don't want to fight the enemy heroes directly at their base, and just have spawn attack them, they would need to just step into the enemy base. Also, heroes can still die by spawn if they step off the invincibility area to tank for the heal, since all spawns will then target them, and there is still the heal delay.

Quote from Gladius_Tito
You've also made a lot of the spells and heroes useless. Basically all your changes have screwed up the balance of the characters. There are too many to name all.
A lot of the heroes either got slight buffs in areas they are weak, and/or additional spells to make them more flexible. Rather than saying that there are too many to name them all, it would greatly help me if you started listing some of the needed changes (as specific as possible) because I not only need to find the changes I need to make, but I need to make them happen. This has always been why my version has had slow progress, since most people don't tell me what they don't like about the map. Aside from that, the map has TEST VERSION plastered all over it, so it should be noted that this version is highly imperfect— the current TS has came a LONG way, and has needed constant testing to iron out even the slightest of changes.

Quote from Gladius_Tito
BTW, shouldn't a thread in the Map Showcase have a download for the map? Or did I just miss it.
Honestly, I would really like to post a map up (and intended to), however it is due to the forementioned reason that keeps me from doing so. If people develop a negative view of your map, it pretty much is engrained into them forever, as most won't even attempt to try it again. Since I've been developing this map by myself for over 2 years, I don't want to ruin all of that— however, I do want to post a map so that people can start performing more thorough testing. I'll try to get one up when I have at least removed all the major bugs, hopefully by tonight. (hopefully)



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Apr 24 2011, 9:58 pm Gladius_Tito Post #9



Guess I was a bit general.

Being that I'm doing this from only info about the spells, this might be a bit inaccurate.

Assault: Nothing I can see here.

Mech: Nothing I can see here.

Volt: If Volt uses scourges against, say, an assault with dropship and the Assault happens to be between the Volt and the dropship, the Assault gets super stunned.

Archer: Nothing I can see here.

Medic: Nothing I can see here.

Light Mage: Starting off with 25 mana is a bit unbalanced. What made early fighting against Light Mage even was that, by the time you get your first spell, so has the light mage and thus you have to watch out for LM's spell. Now, with 75 mana and increased regen, taking on a LM is FAR more risky - hardly even worth it. And the cloak reveal for the LM's L4 makes playing Assassin against LM practically useless - unless it's late game, Assassin can't get near the LM without having to port.

Dark Mage: Nothing I can see here.

I'm stopping here because I'm tired. I'll post the next set of opinions later. =/



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Apr 24 2011, 10:07 pm UnholyUrine Post #10



@Gradius

It may be best to play it before assuming changes aren't worth it.

I'm unsure about being able to buy Warpgates back while getting up to +9 Morale back... I think 3 civs should either buy only 1 warpgate... or each warpgate only +1 morale instead of +3 back (even tho every warpgate destruction = -3 morale)



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Apr 24 2011, 10:59 pm FlashBeer Post #11



@Gladius
For Volt, it's only +1/4sec per extra scourage (5sec stun for regular scourage). So even if you hit with all 12 scourages, it's a 7.75sec stun— which is only half as much longer. Also it would be pretty hard to hit with all of them, that would be an extremely rare situation.

Light Mage starts off with 75 energy (as in for storms and hallucination), not mana. LM only has the regen rate of +1 or +2 lvls, up until he has +3 lvls (then it's the same regen rate). As for LM detecting with NV, assassin has dodge as his L1b and even some invincibility with L4. Assassin could even try to juke LM to casting an L4 then wait until the cooldown period to attack him.

@UnholyUrine
Generally, it's hard to make the comeback when your base has already been broken into, spending precious stat points to keep the gates up would seem costly. The gates could probably be destroyed easily again as well. I'll see how it is for now, but I may change it later to +1 or +2 per gate back.



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Apr 26 2011, 8:12 pm Gladius_Tito Post #12



Alright, I see what you mean.

How will the Summoner's Level 4 work? Will it be disabled if it exits ranged, killed, made invinc but neutral, etc.?

And the Metabolic Boost at L4 might be a bit iffy. Most people went for quick L3 for Metabolic because at that point the summoner would still level every 10 exp. Giving it to the Summy at L4 would dissuade people from ever upping spells and getting mins instead.



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Apr 27 2011, 4:06 am FlashBeer Post #13



@Gladius
The Ultralisk attempting to leave the range of the summoner will be ordered back.

You are thinking of adrenaline glands. Metabolic boost is given at L4 to make it harder to multi-lane and center combat around the Summoner; of course the boost could be upgraded by itself. L4 (at least my goal for it) will be plausible to rush, since they now do much more dmg.



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May 4 2011, 12:55 am Sacrieur Post #14

Still Napping

At the start, with the hero picking thing, use EUDs to detect unit selection, then display text for that player the description of the unit selected.



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May 4 2011, 1:07 am FoxWolf1 Post #15



Quote from Sacrieur
At the start, with the hero picking thing, use EUDs to detect unit selection, then display text for that player the description of the unit selected.

Surely the issue of optimal information display isn't anywhere near serious enough to warrant a Mac-incompatible system...

If I were doing it, I'd just have it stop the hero (just once...don't hold it there; a player who is clicking on the hero repeatedly should be able to go to it smoothly) when it gets almost to the beacon and display the information.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 4 2011, 1:15 am by FoxWolf1.



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May 4 2011, 5:46 am Sacrieur Post #16

Still Napping

Quote from FoxWolf1
Quote from Sacrieur
At the start, with the hero picking thing, use EUDs to detect unit selection, then display text for that player the description of the unit selected.

Surely the issue of optimal information display isn't anywhere near serious enough to warrant a Mac-incompatible system...

If I were doing it, I'd just have it stop the hero (just once...don't hold it there; a player who is clicking on the hero repeatedly should be able to go to it smoothly) when it gets almost to the beacon and display the information.

you could have a text message pop-up saying, "if you are using Mac, press f3 now". And then change the corresponding EUDs for players that press f3.



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May 4 2011, 5:52 am DevliN Post #17

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

Wouldn't that still drop a Mac user?



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

May 4 2011, 6:06 am Sacrieur Post #18

Still Napping

Quote from DevliN
Wouldn't that still drop a Mac user?

Naturally you would key the f3 to be a Mac command :ermm:



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May 4 2011, 9:44 pm ClansAreForGays Post #19



It still won't drop the map user I don't think, because it's still all local. Unless you want selecting the unit to also confirm your selection, which I think is stupid.




May 5 2011, 12:13 am UnholyUrine Post #20



Speaking of which.. has anyone found out how sm maps drop Mac users yet?? O.o



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