I fix them as I find them. I didn't run through every trigger ever.

Spawn a unit in a clear area off the main area. Use move trigger to put it by the zergling. Then just use a trigger to check if the zergling and the ultra are both in the same location. If so, move the zergling out.

To dumbducky, I'm pretty sure I made the Ultra smwhere else and then moved it to the zling, and THEN moved the zling away... But smtimes it still don't work.. probably because ultra's too bulky to be moved... May have to change condition for moving zling away to "Current player bring Ultra to Arena"...

Anyways, I still don't have an editable version of v1.4M, and i'm too lazy and conciencious (spelling plz?) to DL Osmap

Here are some changes that I would like to bring forth in the Next Version

GENERAL:
- Spawns will remain basically the same Except for Zealots and Hydra, which will be strengthened. This is because, let's face it, a game rarely goes to Zlots n Hydras. If Zlots n Hydras were made to be more strong, it will then be a viable strategy to whip out the heavy spawns. Marines have a potential to be stronger, but I think it'll stay, because the transition from melee to range is enough of an advantage.
- I am thinking of adding one more spawn above Hydras... They will probably be Goliaths (air dmg will be lowered to be similar to ground dmg), but I have to check whether the killscore is higher.
- Built Spawns (Temples) will be completely changed. No Built Spawns will be of the same as the normal ones (maybe except hydras n goliaths cause they're strong enough). Each building will spawn only 3-4 of the units.. and each unit will be strengthened accordingly. For example, right now each fire temple spawns 5 firebats. If i lowered it to 3 firebats, then the HP and DMG of firebats will be strengthened by 5/3rds. I MIGHT include a single boss spawn unit like a BC or Carrier, but that chance is slim. This is to lower the chance of feeding to the enemy, decrease the potency of armor (16 armor = marine pwnage.. but stronger spawn units like firebats would do about 35-40 dmg..) and Lower the Over-powered Mutant and Summoner towards spawns. (No they aren't really overpowered, but they are seriously overpowered against spawns)
- New Terrain... :S .. ok..
- I will change the triggers so you'll be forced allied to ur teamates, and ur base, but NOT urself.. so you can kill ur own stuff.

Now on to each Hero

MECH
- Scarab Dmg will be Stronger... (Of course, Light Mage's spell 2 and 4 will have Less reavers spawned.) They will probably now do 160 + 15 dmg... Light mage L2 will spawn 3 reavers, and L4 will spawn 2 x 5 Reavers.
- Mech's beserker mode's L4 will now be a spell rather than redeploying. My idea right now is Overload, or Beserker Strike or smth like that, where It will create a mixture of mech units (or maybe just Goliaths) quickly for sm time.. Quite High dmg (Not going to be extremely high, because Mech class shouldn't have high attack spells), and will forcefully transform the mech back to Goliath form.

SPECIAL OPS
- Planning to switch L2 and L3. What I want is Special ops being a versatile defense unit with Mines, Bunkers, and Detectors, and NOT make it a Tank. Having L2 as creating the Detector, the Sci-ves spells will require more E. If i decide to increase the # of allowed Sci-ves, then Sci-ves may have HP lowered. This is so Special Ops can survey the arena better, and fit its class more.
- L3 being SCV now, the SCV will get an HP boost. Supply Depots will be Walls... ~800 hp with 10 armor (Be Careful where you put ur walls ). Bunkers will have 600 HP with 7 armor. I will change the triggers so you'll be forced allied to ur teamates, and ur base, but NOT urself.. so you can kill ur own stuff. SCV's will now create academies for Bunkers w/ 3 Marines (less gas than armory), and Armories for 3 Ghosts. Ghosts will do more dmg (~30), altering Assault's L4 a bit. Of course, L3 is late game, so the bunkers are still ez to kill if there're few of them. Turrets will have HP boost.
- I dunno if ppl've figured this out yet, but if you're in a bunker, u can still deploy spells. This will help out with the L3 base mechanics. Now you can literally Turtle your way in. Build walls and Bunkers behind it... Buildings don't give too much exp (different exp counter) Ghosts do tho, so be wary of them.

ASSAULT
- I think we all agree that Assault don't need drastic changes. Assault is a good unit with again versatile ways to assault enemy base. Tear gas has been improved so assault don't get affected. I will probably increase the blast radius of L2 and L3 by a teensy bit.

MEDIC
- Medic is in Need of smth that pwns. Right now, Medic's L4 is SUPER helpful, and L1 is helpful if used in a good way. Medics are restricted by its low dmg, and Disable simply buys time.
- One of the overlooked spells is the Calm Mind (spell 3), which gives Mana to others. What I want to do is give the Medic a spell that will Disable Spell effects. Meaning when the medic uses the spell, and if she is paralysed, cursed, or what have you, Her and her allies that're near her will automatically be clear of the spell effect (No more broodlings, YAY!)
- Such a potent spell must be at least L3... Therefore, the plan is to again Switch Calm Mind with Disable. Make Calm Mind give less mana, and Disable actually disable spell effects. Problem is, is that ppl are used to disabling the enemies' ability to Cast spells. I will have to choose whether I should impliment it to L3, or to the L2 spell and call it Mind Surge or smth like that. Suggestions plz!

ASSASSIN
- This baby needs no changes. His spells are super effective when used correctly. The Dynamics of his spells is a perfect fit, and needs no changes.

LIGHT MAGE
- As said before, Reaver # change, Dmg about the same.
- Light Mage's L3 kind of doesn't serve its purpose of binding. I might make it so that Units are Moved towards the Light mage as he is casting it. (Altho it might lead to LM's Death)... So i need sm suggestions here too.

WARRIOR
- Warrior's L3 has sm problems when the warrior slips outta the location. I will trigger it so that won't happen. I also want to make it so that more spawned units are killed by L3. Probably a final blast that kills ~8 units
- other than that, Warrior's a straightforward, and fearsome char if used properly.

VOLT
- ahh Volt. A Very problematic char indeed. His spells, especially L3, allow him to paralyse and counter spells by erasing the mana off foes. Such a spell cannot be changed cause it's too fun. This is why I am changing several things to Fit with Volt's L3 Potency. Other than that, Volt needs no changes. Maybe lower its attack? .. Nah it's cool.
- I may lower Volt's L4 form's HP to about 3200 hp (2500 shields, 700 Hp), so Oppenents have a Chance to kill it, so A SuperCharge Volt can't go barging in w/o strategy.
- When Volt's in L4 form, Volt shall not get any mana increase.

MUTANT
- Mutant is an awesome char, good attack and all that. L3 is to stay.
- Mutant's L4 will have lowered HP ~2700hp so oppenents have a chance to kill it. this is because Chaos Mutant is VERY high Dmged, and can wipe out the Temple in ~4-5 spell casts. If opponents can't do anything about it, then it's already GG...
- When Mutant's in L4 form, Mutant shall not get any mana increase.

ARCHER
- Archer definately has a somehwat Underpowered feel to it. It is only powerful in late game, and it's L2 is seemingly useless.
- That's about to change... Archer will now be stronger (27 + 5 dmg). This will give archer even more potency in player killing. Mutants beware!
- Archer's L2 will be changed to spawn TWO drones at once. This is to balance the fact that it takes way too long for archer to build a base. Sunkens n Spores will be lowered to 400 hp with 7 armor, but still 50 dmg.
- This is to balance the fact that to beat ppl with archer, you have to rely on hit and run, with the mutas. I rarely see ppl pumping out Archer companions because Archer takes too long to level, and its base dmg needs lots of upping before it can go against spawns well. Archer may face an HP decrease if it is too powerful, but its dmg increase should work out fine.

DARK MAGE
- Dark mage, after playing her in v1.4M, is completely well managed. Her L1 combined with her cursing spells make her the perfect, annoying, ugly dark witch that she is. Pros can plan out her mana so she can fit casting L1, then another cursing spell, then L1 again to regain energy to maelstorm in case the enemy wants to get away.
- L4 is still very potent. This is causing me to look at the effects of Armor. I may lower Armor cost to start off with 8 + 1. but that change will probably not happen.

SUMMONER
- the very FIRST char I created. YAY! XD. With spawns being upped and noob summoners having a slow start, I am planning to increase the potency of Infested Terrans. The Reason is that Infested Terrans take out all the zlings, which can be upgraded like mad, but the IT's will do a fixed dmg, and IT's only factor is the Summoner's choice of either sacrificing zlings, or using. Summoner's L2 is supposed to be used to Get out of a tight spot, or used to confuse scrimmiging enemies, and deal sm dmg. IT's can be used as a Hero killer, but I think Zlings can do a better job. Therefore, I'm LOWERING IT's dmg (to probably 120), but Each Zling will produce TWO IT's. This would need to be tested, but it's gonna be hella fun while testing that XD.
- Other than that, Summoner should still fend well if the summoner is pro. Bad summoners are the ones that Hides, and don't swarm/plague and support the zlings.
- As for the summoner Milking problem (putting 2 zlings at each path), i figured that it's only effective in 1v1 and a little on 2v2's. This is because if summoner's getting all the kills, what about his teamates? Anyway, the other team will probably catch up to the zlings and take them out.

That's it, that's my planned changes.
Obviously, there'll be new chars, but those will come later.

That's not really possible because if you allie yourself with any player all the time your units will only hit enemy units.
-> You cannot make a difference between your units and your "not enemy units".

All you had to do was ask.

RE: Spawns
To be honest, I'm actually fine with spawns the way they are. Yeah, they "can" be improved, but it is no longer as necessary as it once was. Spawns are a viable option for flooding out certain classes. Spawns are effective against killing off players too dumb to ever get any armor. If you try to beat a class like Mutant or Summoner out with spawns... you're a dumbass and deserve to lose. Which is fine in my mind.

No air plz. Once Mech gets a better L4, a Reaver might work for this. Have it spawn one Reaver per spawn with like 2000 hp and 20 armor and some scarab damage upgrades... BATTLE TANK.

I guess it helps with killing your own shit. It won't solve any TK problems though, as TK already has to be done manually.

I was always thinking this. Don't know if I ever mentioned this.
Try a burst of like 5 tanks, 5 vults, and 5 gols for a few seconds, then remove. I don't think a forcable transform is a necessary component... L4 can just be a powerful spell that is usable in any form.
Or.... ohh... make it summon 8 Gols around you Light Mage style with the temporary invincibility. LUL.

I have.

Give them seperate paralyze triggers... IE, L2 should have a bigger blast and longer duration than a single L3.

Medic is a fine attacker if you know how to micro a ghost. Medic especially owns Light Mage hardcore with some simple micro. Don't take any balancing advice from anyone who can't do move/hold pos ghost micro.

Ever try a quick L3/L1 combo?

My only problem with Warrior's L3 is that by the time he's done doing the flashy shit the paralyze is half over.

Don't. Volt's attack on it's own is pretty weak. If it kills, it's because of paralyze spam, not attack. It makes for great team plays though.

RE: Volt L4: Not sure if it needs to be changed... but I do agree with the HP/shield shift. (IE, less shields and more HP, not necessarily using the numbers you gave me though.) EMP owns it way too hard... too specific of a counter, IMO. And when I say counter, I mean insta-kill.

I'm already not bothering with Mutant's L4 in favor spamming L2 or L3 as it is. Most Mutants I see are doing the same.

It's a slow starting class. There is nothing wrong with that.
L2 is VERY useful because you can use it to milk multiple paths.

If you do this, switch L2 and L3.

It's fine... it's already technically cheaper than attack because the cost factor is 2, whereas armor gets 1.

Summoner, like any class, is countered if you have the right hero and know how. There is no need to force this type of balancing.

I won't be upset if they never materialize.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Oct 20 2008, 11:25 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

Stop criticizing and give me suggestions >:C
please

So false.

infested terrans are funnnn i like them at 200 dmg though..

The thing you must realized about infesteds is,

The explosion dmg radius is significantly lower. And therefor, if I blow up an infested 1 tile away, I may just lose 25 hp.
If I blow it up right next to the unit, it should lose 200 hp.
And really, units are always mobile, so infesteds don't do that much.

????
I already implemented most of my suggestions.

I agree. The few times I have tried to kill someone off with ITs, I ended up wishing I had kept the lings.

Does anyone EVER use summoner's 3rd ability? I have never seen any summoner use it.

Actually on the topic of killing your own/team's units, if you just click a few times with the right unit its very possibly to kill your own spawn for extra points. I have tried this and its is pretty easy to do with mech, just click a few times, you get free kills extra exp AND you stop your enemy in that lane from getting any kills!

If somehow you set it so you cannot get points for team kills it would be good. Once...i even finished off a teammates hero (he was going to die for sure, he was totally trapped) so i shot it a few times and got a whole heap of civs!

Cheap tactic i know, but it does work!

General 1: Lol hero, kill ur own men k?
Hero 1: wtf y?
General 1: u get stronger nub
Hero 1: lol k

-- Hero kills allied spawn --

Hero 2: lol he kill hiz men, nub
General 2: Less xp for u nub
Hero 2: aww dam.
General 2: nub.


All instances of non intentional team killing is grounds for disqualification from the tournament.

Do you mean intentional?
Also, If a player storms enemy spawn, and his own spawn also happen to be near the enemy spawn, is that grounds for disqualification?

I use it often in mid/late game when I'm about to leave base/output as Summoner. You never know when a shit-ton of HP will come in handy.

I find summoners L3 quite useful. It negates getting killed extremely easy late-game when you support your lings with swarm. I've only used it once though, and I don't get it until I have at least 340 mana so I can pump out lings with ease. Most people keep it at the temple heal like cowards, but then I always like, and sure others do, hitting the defiler out of heal and then owning it.

Now, i'd say who uses the L2? To me the cost of the lings and the damage of the IT's isn't worth the transfer.

i use infested, when my team is far behind and i don't really see a way of winning i just use cheesey tactics and just make infested and just aim at their temple

I've used Summoner's L2 and regretted it every time. I've used Summoner's L3 and never had regrets about that.

I dunno if this is a bug or not, but if you accedntly spam LM's first spell you waste mana and it doesnt cast. This gets me killed practly every time I go LM. ;o

What you should do, is just make 2 hero selections (1 for each team). Then the map would be nice and balanced.