Quagmire

I said I mostly agree with Will, because I didn't want to take the time for my own arguements, I would just get rebuttled by who knows what statement afterwards, and it would be mostly pointless. And, I didn't flame anyone buddy. Everyone in the topic pretty much agreed what Falkoner was saying had no base... everyone agreed solar's post was unreadable... then I said that solar had ridiculous comments... I called no person ridiculous or stupid. If you want to pretend you're a mod when you're not, then at least learn to read posts and I'll be fine with it most of the time.

P.S. Yeah Will, I thought the "racism is history" comment was absolutely ludicrous as well. For reasons that I shouldn't have to go into, or that you already said.

PLEASE NOTE

This thread is not meant to offend anyone or provide a basis for direct insult. If any of you have experience with political debate, you should know that these comments are purely for political opposition. There is no attack on anyone's lifestyle or anything else other than political stance. Many people including myself often become absorbed in an argument and make statements that do not reflect our personalities. If any of you play heavy contact sports then you probably know what I mean. I am not apologizing to anyone. If you are offended by a post you should not be here. Furthermore, I please ask that if you are posting comments please be consistent in your intellectuality. For example, your first comment CaptainWill, correct me if I'm wrong but you said something about only the white people being evacuated from New Orleans. Now what kind of response from me did you expect? I was angry that you would make such a childish and detrimental post. Your posts from then on have been at least acceptable then. Why you suddenly changed stances, I don't know, but you should at least let it be known that your first post should be ignored. I will continue commenting politically soon, but I'm very busy.

Most Sincerely,
Solar

EDIT: Hooligans might as well not post anything at all.

Contact me if you think otherwise.

Solar what you said applies for any discussion and debate in this forum.

Anyway personal attacks are ad hominem fallacies so they automatically fail.

While Iraq may or may not have had WMDs the US would have had good enough reason to go to war anyway. Do you think that terrorists would have went ahead and quit, after getting away with bombing the trade-towers? No, and if the US had not attacked Afghanistan the bases training terrorists would not have been destroyed. The country of Iraq, while struggling right now will probably eventually turn out better than it was before. If we do not pull out. Pulling out of Iraq would immediately crush the government there, and it is only working from the army being there to reinforce it.

If America pulls out now it will go right back to the way it was before, and that is why we need to stay in there.

A. Iraq had no credible connection with the 9/11 attacks. This was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission Report. Page 83 of source

B. It's either a choice between us fucking over the Iraqis, by establishing a puppet government, or them fucking themselves over. We've deposed between 12 to 20 governments, depending on what you count as deposition, and installed governments favorable to us (but not necessarily the people: the repressive rule of Mohammed Reza Shah comes to mind.)

If you want to check the facts on this, read Overthrow by Stephne Kinzer and check his notes and bibliography. Also, government documents pertaining to the overthrow of Iranian democratically elected prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq are available here.

We went to Iraq because leaders of terrorists were hiding out there.

No, we went to Iraq over weapons than were never found.

I'd like to see some proof of that.

If you read the report, yes, there was an informal rapport between Saddam and Al Qaeda, but the CIA and commission opinion was that nothing resulted from it.

How would it crush the government? Britain has soldiers there, Austrailia has soldiers there, Iraq has its own army. What are our soldiers doing? Being targets for attacks that not only kill them but innocent civilians as well. Give me three specific things that the soldiers and private security contractors deployed in Iraq have done this year (2007) that helped Iraq and maybe you'll have a better case. And no, engaging run-of-the-mill insurgents doesn't count. And how could it go back to the way it was before? Saddam's dead and a civil war is brewing. We made our point, we can go now. Do you think things would have ended up well if the British had tried to get in the middle of our civil war by stationing their troops all over the US? Same thing. An infant always carried never learns to walk.

If the US withdrew I can almost guarantee that Britain and Australia would pull out, and Iraq isn't able to stand for itself at the moment. As you said, civil war is brewing, and that would crush the government, and military presence there is keeping a civil war from erupting.

Fuck. I just typed a several paragraph response to all of your comments and I accidentally hit the "Home" button. I'm going to need some time to recover. Fuck!

As 70% of Iraqis want us out, I'm pretty sure that us pulling us would end a lot of the strife.

But the thing is, the world isn't a school and the US isn't a teacher. We survived a civil war and we were split, and the army's presence is only allowing tensions to rise. I still need those three situations.

You can't guarantee shit, you're not getting this from a reliable or actual source, just from your own assumptions. If you want to give your own assumptions then fine, but do not claim them to be so inherently truthful if you want to have credit attached to any of your words.

Could I holla at some reliable information please.

I agree Dapperdan. Provided documentation for fact is key everybody.

Okay I'm going to provide a bulletin-style response to anything I DID NOT answer in my superpost. Yeah you know what I'm talkin about honnies.

GuN, you are being very hypocritical seeing as you just posted 3 times in a row.