devilisk, you almost completely remind me of Shocko, you just like to come into topics and start arguments.

There is no need to argue over this, at least not in this topic, if you want to continue arguing, argue over PMs, or start another topic.


This is his topic, why would he troll in it?

You agreed to a snarky NO U reply targeted against my request that you provide information to back your reason for saying 'No.' to my previous answer. You wouldn't say no to something if you agreed to it. Therefore you disagree, and you think it's wrong.

But whatever. Here, I'll entertain your request for "common sense": In a mapping thread that addresses the topic of team-based map making where my addon reply for a separate issue was that mapping ought to be taken more seriously instead of just being expressly for fun (because maps don't get done or don't get done properly). My claim was such that this is what I think is the only thing that's "right"; a term that, in this context, applies to anything that furthers the mapping community and general interest in UMS maps and map making for Starcraft. Can you agree on that much at least?

Good. Then building off of that, you then went on to say "No." to my claim that WITHOUT new maps, there's little or no new growth to the mapping community. Ignoring that your NO U reply just negated the rest of your arguments, you said the following:
Except that's not true. There's only so many times a person can be told something that isn't true (like a map that's going to be made but never is), or else simply let done with poor products, before credibility diminishes towards claims like that in general. Therefore, that is why I've stated that it's not enough to ONLY have map ideas; ideas are only half the equation. You need the other half (at least some of the time) to sustain credibility by holding to promises. Which directly translates to helping the mapping community, and thus being "right" in this context.

Hence why it's important for maps to be made without the expectation of an immediate personal return; they need to be oriented towards the goal of producing a playable product just as much, if not more, than simply being JUST for fun. Otherwise, more often then not, they fail to be completed, or simply drag on ad nauseum, and thus diminish credibility in the community (again).

Consider that the last time I entertain your "arguments".

You agreed to a snarky NO U reply targeted against my request that you provide information to back your reason for saying 'No.' to my previous answer. You wouldn't say no to something if you agreed to it. Therefore you disagree, and you think it's wrong.


But whatever. Here, I'll entertain your request for "common sense": In a mapping thread that addresses the topic of team-based map making where my addon reply for a separate issue was that mapping ought to be taken more seriously instead of just being expressly for fun (because maps don't get done or don't get done properly). My claim was such that this is what I think is the only thing that's "right"; a term that, in this context, applies to anything that furthers the mapping community and general interest in UMS maps and map making for Starcraft. Can you agree on that much at least?

Good. Then building off of that, you then went on to say "No." to my claim that WITHOUT new maps, there's little or no new growth to the mapping community. Ignoring that your NO U reply just negated the rest of your arguments, you said the following:
Except that's not true. There's only so many times a person can be told something that isn't true (like a map that's going to be made but never is), or else simply let done with poor products, before credibility diminishes towards claims like that in general. Therefore, that is why I've stated that it's not enough to ONLY have map ideas; ideas are only half the equation. You need the other half (at least some of the time) to sustain credibility by holding to promises. Which directly translates to helping the mapping community, and thus being "right" in this context.



Hence why it's important for maps to be made without the expectation of an immediate personal return; they need to be oriented towards the goal of producing a playable product just as much, if not more, than simply being JUST for fun. Otherwise, more often then not, they fail to be completed, or simply drag on ad nauseum, and thus diminish credibility in the community (again).





Consider that the last time I entertain your "arguments".

At least you actually replied this time. But you completely fail at NO U logic. Like it's disgustingly awful. What Falkoner said, in his NO U post, was "No, you give reasons or gtfo". Devilesk agrees that you should give reasons or gtfo. Your rant about NO U is filled with wrongness and loss, so badly that I couldn't even explain it.

Everytime someone says they're going to stop arguing with someone in a topic, it's a lie, because they actually feel the need to say they'll stop posting, because they just want to feel like they won and have come out the bigger man. When really, in your continued effort to 'win', you have not left the attitude of arguing. If devilesk continues posting in this topic, I'm sure you'll entertain his arguments. The only thing preventing that is an attempt to prove me wrong/prove yourself right. Think about what I'm saying. Stop trying to 'win' and just discuss. Christ. Incorrect and correct points can be made, but your goal should be to learn from it, not take pride in your correct point, or pretend your incorrect points never happened.

Umm... amen.

"Except that's not true", define truth. All you're doing is making a bunch of conjectures solely based on your personal beliefs.

At least you actually replied this time. But you completely fail at NO U logic. Like it's disgustingly awful. What Falkoner said, in his NO U post, was "No, you give reasons or gtfo". Devilesk agrees that you should give reasons or gtfo. Your rant about NO U is filled with wrongness and loss, so badly that I couldn't even explain it.

Well by all means, tell me what you know...

At least you actually replied this time. But you completely fail at NO U logic. Like it's disgustingly awful. What Falkoner said, in his NO U post, was "No, you give reasons or gtfo". Devilesk agrees that you should give reasons or gtfo. Your rant about NO U is filled with wrongness and loss, so badly that I couldn't even explain it.

I understand what Falk was referring to. But my reasons were already present, so that didn't apply. Again.

lol @ "wrongness".

You need to actually show us its opposite where absence > presence it if want to go about deconstructing anything.

Everytime someone says they're going to stop arguing with someone in a topic, it's a lie, because they actually feel the need to say they'll stop posting, because they just want to feel like they won and have come out the bigger man. When really, in your continued effort to 'win', you have not left the attitude of arguing. If devilesk continues posting in this topic, I'm sure you'll entertain his arguments. The only thing preventing that is an attempt to prove me wrong/prove yourself right. Think about what I'm saying. Stop trying to 'win' and just discuss. Christ. Incorrect and correct points can be made, but your goal should be to learn from it, not take pride in your correct point, or pretend your incorrect points never happened.

You fail at replying, period, whether it's a legitimate post or a troll (which my posts are not). The only things in pieces are your pathetic responses.

Enough of that discussion.


I've added half of chapter 3 to this, by the way. But I still want to know: Should we consider maps to be mainly for fun or to be taken seriously? That was my original question here.

Maybe I should make it into a new thread instead?

Simply because you disagree with whatever he says, even if it makes complete sense, which makes you the troll.

Even if what you said makes sense, you never gave any reason why he is wrong, and this should be moved into the other topic.