I Forward that action.

kk.

v1.03
» Added a Missile Turret to each main base and along the south border of bases.
» Removed a zealot for each player on the bridge.
» Fixed a double-revive bug.
» Changed some terrain and building placement.
» Marine's cost increased from 6 to 8.
» Ghost's cost increased from 16 to 18, damage from 28 to 26.
» Added a 10 second delay to reviving and AC Type changing.
» Increased Vulture's attack upgrade from +2 to +3.
» AC gas accumulation rate increases slightly with kills/razing score.

I attached the map, since I don't think Edit in the DLDB is working.

change toss atk upgrade to +6. That or perhaps increase the toss max ground atk upgrade to 5?

Buff the bc's, in some fashion. There has got to be a better middle ground for them.

And maybe have scouts/valks only cost 45? just a thought because armor makes them obsolete fast(The toss curse). I just don't find them very cost effective. I could see their price staying same if they were buffed in any way really.(even 1+ shield)

Even with AC's being able to upgrade shuttle armor wraiths are useful most of the game because not a lot of players do upgrade it and its costly and takes from other upgrades. That and they help a lot with zealot removal.

Trust me, BCs was very OP in the beta versions. They were balanced out with lower stats and lower cost in 1.00, but still a little too strong. I wouldn't have toned them done further in 1.01 if it wasn't necessary. Remember, one or two BCs is generally going to suck... it's when you manage to get a fleet of 7+ that it's deadly. That hasn't changed. Other than that, I don't want every game to be based around rushes to close with Battlecruisers (or to prevent them).

45 is ridiculous, they would rape everything in sight. Armor doesn't really make them obsolete fast... because scouts were never intended for anti-air. The fact that they are the fastest air unit in the game after the upgrade gives them an insane mobility advantage. Maybe they are a bit expensive, but 45 is way too low of cost for them. Perhaps a change to 72 might work.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 28 2008, 3:49 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

Armor is too expensive ;o

Battlecruisers are seriously overpowered as they are right now. I just got my ass beat by a Battlecruiser user... despite the fact that I was massing Goliaths the entire time. I might be a little sore, but in terms of balanced StarCraft, that should never happen. The only way Battlecruisers are getting buffed is if the cost goes back to 240 (if it shouldn't already). If anything, they should be weakened further and/or cost more. They do 67 damage to both air and ground with full upgrades. If you compare any unit in Armored Core with it's melee counterpart, Battlecruisers are the most out of proportion. The Battlecruisers in AC, as of now, cost less than a Command Center, whereas a melee Battlecruiser costs as much as a CC in terms of minerals plus 300 gas and is a hell of a lot weaker. The Armored Core Battlecruiser does more than double the amount of damage and gets 50% more HP!

EDIT: I ran some tests to see how imbalanced BC is. (Note: These tests assume there is no micromanagement involved. Combat is straight up, with units always in range.)
Melee Stats
0/0 Upgrades
Battlecruiser vs...
2 Goliaths, win
3+ Goliaths, lose
2 Wraith, win
3+ Wraith, lose

3/3 Upgrades
Battlecruiser vs...
2 Goliaths, win
3+ Goliaths, lose
2 Wraith, win
3+ Wraith, lose

AC STATS
0/0 Upgrades
Battlecruiser vs...
2 Goliaths, win
3 Goliaths, win
4 Goliaths, win <--- ridiculous!
5+ Goliaths, lose
2 Wraith, win
3 Wraith, wins
4+ Wraith, lose

3/3 Upgrades (note: 3/3 does not change the # of hits for a Battlecruiser to kill either Wraith or Goliath.)
Battlecruiser vs...
2 Goliaths, win
3 Goliaths, win
4+ Goliaths, lose
2 Wraith, win
3 Wraith, wins
4+ Wraith, lose

...and we're talking a single Battlecruiser here. One you get enough Battlecruisers, Wraiths and Gols are lucky to kill one, assuming they can even touch the BCs. Well, Gols can at least always get a shot in because of range. Not that they'll put a big dent in 4 armor and 750 HP and then die in 3 hits.

Post has been edited 7 time(s), last time on Jun 1 2008, 3:40 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

v1.04
» Replaced Science Facilities that have been lifted are now invincible.
» Payment beacons for players who left are now removed.
» Opposing teams cannot put stuff on the ground in the other team's pay/upgrade corner, it will be removed.
» Battlecruiser's attack decreased from 55 to 40, cost decreased from 180 to 160.
» Increased Dropship HP from 240 to 250.
» Valkyrie (Scout) cost decreased from 80 to 72, attack increased from 18 to 19, HP increased from 60 to 65, armor increased from 1 to 2.
» Comsat Station build time decrased.
» Increased Stimpack cost to 60.
» Increased Irradiate cost to 90.

I reccomend moar startup equipment! I never get to shoot down shuttles fast enough.

So I updated this map without going into this topic and telling anyone:

v1.05
» Minor terrain changes.
» Armored Cores cost 10% less gas to repair.
» Added more levels of payment scaling for long games.
» Removed some of the zero mineral blocks on the geyser in the middle of the map.
» Increased Ghost attack upgrade from +2 to +3.
» Added death messages for the heroes.

v1.06
» Fixed bugs introduced in 1.05.
» Fixed the death messages to appear for the bases as well as heroes.

v1.06B just fixes bugs that appeared in 1.06 and was made literally two minutes after 1.06.

---

Uploaded the map to the DLDB, going to update the first post.

We've been playing this a bit recently, so a version 1.07 has been made and released. A special shout out is due for CecilSunkure, who provided a lot of good suggestions and debate which motivated some of the changes. It's been four years between versions, but some of these things are quite overdue and the map is much improved by them.



Commentary and notes:
A bit has been done to improve the balance between the bases instead of focusing on base vs heroes balance. The balance is more mathematical; the increase in Goliath HP makes Goliaths lets Goliaths survive three shots from Siege Tanks at 3/3 upgrades. The increase in Wraith cost offsets how much they could dominate the game - often the best thing for the bases to do was just to get dozens of Wraiths, so that's a bit more expensive now. Hopefully they will be viable while not hurting a diversity of strategy.

After four years, the expo situation is more balanced. The left base's south corner expo is no longer right up against the bunker. Also, the tank in the left base does block CC construction now, so that's the same situation that the right base has. Additionally, the terrain is a bit prettier without impacting function. There was a lot of doodad sprinkling, so it's a bit less boring and gives the map a visual refresh that it needed.

The increased revive times and costs and change times for Cores hopefully add a bit more penalty to dying versus flying back via the shuttle and repairing. Dying in this game should not be a form of transportation or a method to avoid repairs. Of course, extremely rich bases may still be able to afford paying for all-out suicidal attacks, but it will be harder to get to that level.

The purpose of the new revive notifications is two-fold. One is that the player's teammates know when they're reviving, the other is that the base knows when to stop paying them for a revive. This is very useful information that the map could easily tell the players, so now it does.

Most recent version has been uploaded to the DLDB.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 15 2015, 8:53 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

can we get a group to play this?

we're in channel donuts if anyone wants to play right now

Submitting another update. After some private and mostly-private 3v3 and 4v4 matches, it became apparent that the map needed some tweaking to better fit a more competitive setting.



Commentary and Notes:

The balance changes regarding the hero choices aim to make Tank and Vulture serve more useful purposes and has more of a mathematical basis. (+5 Tank vs +4 Goliath was terribly balanced after considering rate of fire. The bases will pay a greater cost to setup and sustain air power. Wraith and Scout have been priced higher to account for their power and mobility. Bases no longer start with a Starport, which delays reaching a large mass of Wraith early game, should a base choose to do so.

There have been some terrain changes. The mains in particular have changed; the east side no longer needs more workers to achieve optimal mining. In-base expansions directly south of the mains now allow CC placement above the geyser. Same for the expansions towards the center of the map near the bases' front lines. The south out-of-base expansions have been moved back towards the map edges and both allow CC placement above the geyser. Another notable terrain change is that the structure in the center of the map supports placement of two Missile Turrets.

Bases now receive a scaling amount of starting resources depending on the number of heroes on the other team. The base amount is 240, with +60 gas for each opposing hero.

Released a small update to address missing buildings for the bases introduced in the last version:



The new version is available for download in the DLDB.