Zeratul already is in the game. There are 2 types of Dark Templar that get spawned, Zer'atai and Lenassa. Lenassa use the Dark Templar standard unit which is faster, and do 39 damage with 100 hp, 50 shields and 4 armor. Zer'atai which use Zeratul as their base are slower and do 45 damage with 110 hp, 60 shields and 5 armor. Also because they're heros they use the hero "never-give-up" AI and will chase their chosen target until they choose a new target, whereas regular units will eventually switch to a new target if their current target runs too far away (ref Protect Bob with Kerrigans chasing Bob down forever). These two types of Dark Templar reflect the Scythe/Blade styles in SC2. They've been there since the first few versions of DS Night Fixed.

Also I got the spawn times on the warp prism wrong, they're actually 6 seconds by default and the weaker units (zealots, stalkers) reduce the interval down to as low as 5.5s until the next spawn.

I've finished up the last things from my list above. One more thing I want to do is allow you to use your ally's insta-spawn powerup to spawn their units for them, at your own cost. This is potentially exploitable as the price you will pay is based on your own gas mines, while the units that are spawned are your allies. So if you have 1 gas mine it'll cost you $500, and your ally has 5 gas mines and the equivalent number of units that normally goes with that, you'll get a cheap use to spawn lots of units. But really this is pretty small in practice and I think you'd have to deliberately engineer this sort of situation, which generally wouldn't be too your advantage. It's already effectively possible with 2.48 anyway if your ally builds all their units in your base and you use your own insta-spawn powerup when it is cheap.

2.49 is released. Get it here http://www.staredit.net/files/2203/

Full change log:

• New Insta-spawn price ((mines+1)*$250), eg 1 mine costs $500, 2 mines cost $750, 3 costs $1000, 4 = $1250, 5 = $1500, 6 = $1750.
  
• Remove scarabs from the cinematic battle at the start; so now it should be impossible to permanently damage the silos before the game properly starts (silos are healed)
  
• When your turn to spawn comes, ally units that spawn from buildings built in your base will now show as being spawned by your ally
  
• Fixed spawn bug when you had between 4 and 7 Evo chambers: got 10 roaches instead of the proper 8.
  
• Archon damage reduced to 36 from 40
  
• Dark Templar spawn reduced to 1.25 from 1.33
  
• Immortal spawn reduced to 1.33 from 1.66, damage reduced to 14 from 15
  
• Stalker heroes +1 dmg to 18, -$10 to $200
  
• Zealot spawn reduced to 3.25 from 3.5, +25 hp -20 shields to 125/25. Hero zealot (sometimes spawned by Warp Prism) now has same shields/hp but 5 armor and 24 damage instead of 4 and 22.
  
• Added Tempest Carrier units: uses Gantrithor base so spawns with 8 interceptors, max 3 of these spawn per player for your first 3 fleet beacons (no battlefield limit). Has original carrier stats of 250 hp, 150 shields, 5 armor. Regular carriers now have max 4 interceptors and 275/125 with 6 armor. Price increased to $880, removed interceptor capacity upgrade. Increase the interceptor respawn rate a little (eg, decrease time between spawns) to help compensate for much smaller interceptor capacities. Interceptor damage +1 back to 11.
  
• Zergling +5 hp to 40
  
• Lurkers +15 hp to 175, +1 dmg to 24
  
• Infested Kerrigan -30 hp to 170
  
• Queen's Nest now spawns 1 Queen + 1 Lurker, -$20 to $406
  
• Lair now spawns 1 Kerrigan, -$30 to $303, no max
  
• Hive now spawns 1.75 Kerrigan + 1 Overlord, +$30 to $286, max 4
  
• Reduced number of Kerrigans created by infestation
  
• Ultralisk +$15
  
• Changed nuke so that it doesn't destroy all enemy units in their spawn box, instead it injures them to 5% HP/shields. This is potentially quite a large nerf to nuke.
  
• Thor now dispels any Dark Swarms it walks into every 2 seconds.
  

I didn't end up doing the "use your ally's insta-spawn powerup" as it'll take a good 2-3 hours to implement and test it thoroughly based on my current triggers, which wasn't worth it. Better to get 2.49 out.

I also forgot to change the Hybrid Destroyer stats, was going to increase hp/shields to 250/250 and reduce damage from 45 to 35 or 40, this'll have to wait till next time. Infestation looks like it still creates a few too many Kerrigans for my liking, so I'll have to tone that down further too.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 28 2012, 4:23 am by Lanthanide.

Need to play more recent version; but here's my initial thought:

Too much nuke nerf. With the Thor's new ability to dispel Dark Swarm, the Terran doesn't always have to lose against Zerg in army-to-army battle, but because the enemy units don't die even if you build the silo right before the spawn, it is very hard for Terran to 'clean up' the units that have 5% hp/shields left, especially against Protoss that will still cast spells including disruption web and psionic storms which severely delays the Terran push. If the nuke is this much nerfed, then the Terran should be allowed to build 3 Thors or have some other form of compensation.

I'll give more thoughts when I play more games.

Yeah I got the replay. It's about a 22 minute game I think? I forgot where exactly it starts, but I assume somewhere after 15 minutes.

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I have a replay where I accidently infested the enemy brutalisk with my zerg hero infestor. The whole entire game nothing could kill it nor can any specials kill it/steal it too. It was attacking enemy spawns the whole entire game preventing them from pushing significantly. I found it funny too I kept laughing so hard it was too funny how the brutalisk couldn't explode/die after my hero infestor took it. It knocked off so many ground units it was unstoppable

Wow so nuke is extremely nerfed now:S? Why Lanth, whats the point of this...? How is terran gonna successively counter mcs an infest now. My advice to you all DS gamers DO NOT CHOOSE TERRAN if you don't wanna lose. The enemy that gets nuked will still push and end up winning

This is the replay I saved of the infestor stealing a silo brutalisk and making it become immortal as it couldn't die no matter what, the whole entire game. If any of you wanna see something hilarious its on this replay with the stolen brutalisk haha

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Well.. I just lost to a toss. But I don't think that the nuke is that bad. As Lanthanide says, it's mainly 2v2 or 3v3 map. So, if you have 2 or more terrans the nuke gets much stronger, while the other specials don't get so powerful. If there are 2 terran players and by the end of the game both of them use nuke and both of them lift their buildings, so they get refund, they can nuke 4 times in a row. Or get lots of money. So, I think that it's not that bad.

terran nuke should have a special ghost unit that spawns after a nuke, like people in suits that go investigate a nuclear site for radation. since all the other races spawn men and the terran dont they should get something to fight the others.

??? I'm confused ???
So wat do the ppl in suits do? are they given to a player or wut? can they be killed? :3

Just played a 2v1 after red left where me an my team saw the enemy has 2 arbiters:S. It was so fkin rigged as hell lol,it is said that he has mc'd the arbiter from blue

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Was just about to finish a fairly long game, when the last enemy left, in v2.49

I got a defeat message rather than victory; jus' checkin if that's intentional or a bug

It happens to me sometimes too

Back from my out of town trip. Thanks for all the replays, I'll have a look at them.

Re: Terran nuke being weaker; this was not a deliberate "I think nuke is too strong, I'm going to nerf it" thing, but more of a "nuke should have always acted this way anyway, so I'll change it". I don't think it'll make that big a difference, although the people who already whine about nuke "sucking" will probably whine more.

No need to troll..., no1 is whining nor is anyone even trolling,, we are just saying that most of the time we played Terran vs mcs or infest 90% of the time it'll fail against it even if both gambit an raider have like 500 units on the battlefield the enemy who mced or infested will push right towards the Terran player an end up dealing massive damage. But if the nuke killed everything off the battlefield that would be a fair stand like destroying all units mced/infested by enemy off the field. or you could also make a nuke(know the nuclear rockets that drop down to the ground like in regular maps such as melee games)drop right down dealing damage to the temple(the same amount of damage that the nuke-bc does) and enemy's on the battlefield just like if there is a shit ton of units in the middle of a fastest map an you make a few ghosts send nukes all over the middle of the map getting everything, same would be good for ds. If you mc an enemy he loses ALL his units if you infest an enemy he also loses ALL his units, now if nuclear rockets blow up all the enemy's on the field he will lose all his units too. That way the specials will have a good balance. None of us want the enemy pushing towards us after we had like a 50 minute game and both temples have 6 bars on them an enemy doing more damaging to the temple by pushing right thru the nuke. I mean like if I had your amazing fancy trigger skills I'd make the nukes in ds do the same job they do in the storyline missions on single player to keep everything well balanced.

say what? translate that please. lol
anyways just spawn terran units for the nuke which can defend the temple. 8 goliaths 10 marines 2 ghosts 2 tanks 3 wraiths. its enough to push and inflict very little damage on the temple.

Well I haven't tried the Terran's special in a while, so I have no opinion on that yet. Using the actual nuke though, ghost launching the nuke on an area, will just be horrible. I mean, you can trigger a computer ghost to nuke it but it's not exactly perfect, and giving it to a human player to do it will just be weird. Also, not everyone will know about it making a waste for a lot of games. Only thing I do question is why you changed when someone uses the nuke when the enemy's units are still in the spawn box to be set to 5% HP/Shields instead of just killing them off completely.

if he sets it to killing enemy's in the spawn box while the others push forward this'll go right back to ds 2.33 and all the previous versions before it lol. the nuke should just be like normal melee and fastest games for terran. When the guy mcs or infest and terran nuke blows up all the mced/infested units then the enemy cannot push dontchu guys agree

Nuke is really weak. Does anyone here thinks that nuke gives more damage to temple than using divine judgment or infestation. LOL when anyone use divine judgment or infestation right after spawn, it will steal all enemy units, and all spawning units of enemy will attack the temple right away. Can anyone convince me that all converted enemy units attacking the temple has less damage than nuke? Nuke just damage what 3-4 bars of temple? But when you use infestation or divine judgment right after spawn how many bars would you think the temple would be damaged? I would say more than 4. What do you think? If the temple has only 3 bars left, nuke automatically wins but tell me how many nukes will anyone use to get that to just 3 if you can't push the enemy back? Or rather you can't push back because by the time they reach the enemy temple with just one divine judgment or one infestation all units will be your enemies.

The only thing infestation or divine judgment will get less damage than nuke is when someone build battery or nydus when minerals are showing on top left thats why the enemy can counter right away. So i'm saying 4-5 seconds is long enough for converted units to damage the temple more than 3-4 bars.

Here's what to do if your opponent is only terran on 1v1 or both terran on 2v2. Don't let the enemy damage your night defense use boom if necessary. Nuke will target night defense first before temple so even if youre both using specials, terran won't win or terran can't win because you could destroy his night defense by using one special if he has no boom and just 2 specials if he has 3 booms. Terran need to destroy all enemy units converted on his side so one boom but there are still on the enemies side. If he didn't use boom night defense is destroyed. So there goes terran needing how many nukes to destroy just the night defense and how many still for full temple hp.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 29 2012, 11:04 pm by coolglaze.

What? 3-4 bars of damage? That's a lot of damage and will take more than one nuke. Even if you use Infestion or Divine Judgement right when the spawn barely happens, it still takes a while for all units to gather and attack the Temple. Also armor counts you know, not all units can damage it so easily and quickly. So you can't really say the units will always do more damage than the Nuke when someone specials. Even then, that's why we have Booms and Insta Spawn to prevent it from doing so much damage. I'm not trying to defend Terran's special here, just that your information isn't exactly correct.