How's that?
There are so many things I could argue about, but this one seems most crucial.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 21 2007, 3:37 am by Merrell. Reason: Stop with the reported adding.

What else is there to add to the topic except what has already been said? That would be highly redundant, and really not needed at all... So I'm going to be warned for that?

Okay, cool. That's fine with me if you want to verbally warn me for asking for proof of a point that was not even written out too clearly, just shows me that everything is slowly slipping back to how it used to be

With that set aside, what else is there to talk about honestly? Everything has been said already, and I'm still waiting for proof...

#1: Any corporation has that ability and most use it..
#2: Everything man makes is addicting.. And Nicotine has always been in Cigarettes... Now, in Tobacco, no. Tobacco != Cigarettes.
#3: Where is the link to this statistic? I've never heard of a "2% increase in psychosis"... Care to help enlighten us?

I honestly do believe that if Marijuana were to become legal, it would cut the American deficit in half, if not take it away completely.

They could crossbreed different plants to produce a plant that makes TONS of bud with no seeds so they could make the plants themselves and only themselves... Organic Chemistry is amazing!

Tobacco, and about 10000 other things. What I would like to know is how you could possibly consider the possibility that I didn't know cigarettes included Tobacco after reading anything I have said.


I don't think Tobacco has been cultivated that long, as is my point (one that destroyed something frazz had said)... I should look this up somewhere.

Dapperdan, I'm really confused about your point on cultivation. You never really presented it very clearly.
Could you repost your main point, along with the point of mine it destroyed?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 21 2007, 3:38 am by Merrell.

Could you read the topic? Thanks.

So yeah, I'm not getting how that destroys my point.
I was referring mainly to events in the US. When tobacco gained popularity in the form of cigarettes, nobody recognized that it was addictive.
Similarly, today we don't have any real statistics (I'm assuming) showing marijuana is addictive. That doesn't mean it isn't. It may be an addiction like tobacco; one that doesn't take over your life, but that you'll find excruciatingly hard to stop.


Yeah, that's basically what I said before, but maybe it was enough of a rephrase? Otherwise I need you to elaborate on how it kills my point.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 21 2007, 3:38 am by Merrell.

Well, I agree that things would be different (and likely for the better) if things went along the "Green" path, in which marijuana legalization is only an aspect of it. Also, since I've never really done it (I tried one hit years ago), I can't say for certain that I know how it would affect me. I simply called the "government doesn't want free-minded pot smokers" argument infantile because the people that I've encountered who say such things treat pot smoking like it's "the Force" from Star Wars and smoking it makes them some sort of threat to the "evil empire" that is established society.

But I am in agreement that a society that legalized drugs would be opened minded about a lot of other things, and I did not intend to target that notion as an "infantile defense." Again, I'm saying the reasons for my prejudice against it are personal, and that I would like to overcome that prejudice. Having issues with people just because they smoke pot is sucky, and I personally do feel close-minded by it.

Marihuana is widely used to create or at least amplify a new state of mind that a person can experience. Generally when people are really happy, they become really accepting. This is an affect very similar to that of a high attitude. I also see it as a spiritual journey in the sense that one can take a more universal view of everything, think of what it means to have an artifical "enlightenment", though it I don't think it is enlightenment or even close to it, people become very very empathetic when taking marihuana. This empathy then encourages these situations: People see themselves more as equals with others and wouldn't hoard wealth as the corporate heads do. People will inevitably begin protests of some form to combat the obvious wrongs in society when the empathy rubs off on enough people.
I'm sure you can argue that it doesn't create the universal outlook or the feeling of empathy, but until you try it or see a "green planet", really this argument will be quite ignorant.

I put that statistic on the first post. It is a number accepted by a few researchers, yet still disagreed upon, it may be coincidental.

I see, its good to see possible weaknesses in yourself rather than projecting it onto others. You are a good self-reflector. By the way, when I use the term "green planet" I don't mean eco-friendly in this context. The green planet is one that has more accepted and widespread use of marihuana.

yenku: In order to form a perfect world wide society, everyone would need to be selfless and completely understanding of the world around them. I ask you, does smoking pot inspire people to give their lives to helping others?

The fact that you haven't done so after smoking pot would seem to prove that this is not so. Maybe it makes you feel good, and that if you were in power you could somehow solve all the problems of the world; and if only everybody smoked pot then everybody would feel good and there would be no more problems.
That, however, won't ever really help anything.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Dec 21 2007, 3:38 am by Merrell. Reason: adding "reported"

Hmmm. If Mary Jane was legal. There would be alot more Rastafarians, people would smell bad, walking down the street and out of no where you see people with yellow eyes and society would be messed up. And after that they would make more drugs legal. Drug Dealers would be the next Tim Hortons, dead bodies everywhere and stealing would be an all time high (no pun intended).

Naw, it's best left illegal.

frazz, I will dedicate most of my professional life to helping others. I dedicate much of my social life to helping others and creating understanding between my peers. Also, I am currently studying controversial issues with hopes of finding ways to solve many of societies problems. Your logic is poor because its based off things that aren't true, and things that are unrelated.
I never said marihuana would make people self-less, but it does indeed help in my opinion.
Maybe we should give the world a chance to let people smoke weed as much as they desire without worries of being ridiculed or put in jail. Only then can we see it's true effects on society. I am quite certain there would be important progress on creating an open society (even if that progress simply comes from the fact that people would then have their own freedoms).

What? There wouldn't be more Rastafarian's... They would just be better able to practice their religion, and I don't see how that is bad. People already smoke it, they won't smell any worse than they do now, same goes for the RED eyes. Society would be "messed up", eh? Shows how much you know about this drug. You fail to realize that legalizing the drug will mean the end of drug dealers on the streets... Stealing? You're crazy.
JordanN: You are officially the most ignorant person I know. Even my conservative friends understand that weed should be legal. If you don't, you really fail to see the whole picture. That, or you just believe that restriction of freedoms is okay, because there is no way the negatives of marihuana outweigh the positives.
What you just stated is like me saying: If everyone bought into organized religion, Christian leaders would rape every single little boy and people wouldn't be pious at all!
Please educate yourself on a topic or ask others before you make such blatantly ignorant comments.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Dec 23 2007, 6:03 pm by yenku.

I'm fucking sick of you claiming shit with no proof to back up your outrageous claims.

Anyways, where is your proof that "people would smell bad"? How about "there would be a lot more Rastafarians"? Do you even know what a Rastafarian is without googling or wiki???

Yellow eyes? That's caused from Liver failure, jackass. Marijuana doesn't cause your liver to fail, Alcohol does.

Society would be messed up? Where is your source on that one?

O rly? How do you know? Can you read the future?

You need to leave Serious Discussion. NOW.

I'm fucking tired of your stupidity and bullshit.
Reason why I said more rastafarians because if they can practice it better then wouldn't more want to join without the fear of going to jail?
Well you got me there except all I know is the smell of weed/smoke would attach to clothing and if you have a nose it would pick up the smoke scent.

Also yellow eyes.
http://healthandcannabis.blogspot.com/2005/11/medical-marijuana-in-treatment-of.html

Dont need a source for that but if it was legal uncontrolled children like you would smoke that thing non-stop until it spreads through the community and when they grow up they would continue that behaviour effecting society in a heavy toll.( Such as if the person grows up to be prime minister and he's high during a conference things would suck ass.)
Also how I do I know? Every family I've seen where there family smokes it the children do it in a non-stop.
Unless Moose grants you moderation powers (which is highly unlikely because if that happen then the site would be tainted forever) then I have no need to listen to you.

Rastafarians don't worry about being caught.. People who understand rastafari culture will probably have smoked weed before, if they are at all interested in being a rastafarian they aren't worrying about doing illegal marihuana. It's basically what the culture is about. Besides, people don't stop practicing "religion" or "spirituality" because aspects of it are illegal.
You have yet to tell me why it is bad that there would be more rastafari.

And refrain from calling me stupid. Where is the bullshit again?

Have you ever smelled it? Gosh I love the smell. My best friend, who will not smoke weed because he is going to be an Olympic runner, loves the smell.

Your source says: "Phosphorated carbohydrate (Emetrol) - Side effects include: fainting; swelling of face, arms, and legs; unusual bleeding; vomiting; weight loss; yellow eyes or skin. Less common-more common with large doses: Diarrhea; stomach or abdominal pain." Way to go sherlock! You successfully exposed how marihuana is a better alternative to other drugs! Next time when you want to prove someone wrong, don't google "marijuana" and "yellow eyes". Even if you do, it'll be worth your while to read the article.
You just posted an objective article that obviously shows use of cannabis to be beneficial when you speak against it.

Yeah, I want marihuana use to spread. It would definitely affect* society, but how would it hurt it exactly? As far as I know it is used spiritually, medically and for recreation, which one of those are bad?
Why would things suck ass? Because they would make more friendly decisions? If you're worried about how people can do things when their high, you obviously misunderstand what it does to one. I built a patio this summer, smoking blunts the whole time - it looks great. I wrote my last paper high - I got an A-. I smoked every day of my last few months of school last year. My GPA was 3.8 that semester - unweighted. I just got into my top two choice colleges, Bard and University of Vermont. Oh yeah, did I mention that I was captain of our champion soccer team? Or that I practice Mixed Martial Arts every day of my life? Tell me how being a pot-head makes things suck ass.

One situation you guys seemed to have missed...

You're 34, you have three children. Your little girl runs across the street to catch a frisbee. The stoned asshole in the minivan going 68 mph on a residential street hits and kills her.

There's more to this than big corporations' influences guys, there's serious risks. Can you imagine what would happen if 300 million Americans had unlimited access to this? A few of you may be smart, may be able to smoke this without causing risks to everyone else, but on such a large scale, it goes beyond personal rights and infringes on the rights of others. Cigarrettes? They don't make you high. Alchohol? DUI is illegal. My Government teacher had an interesting insight. Think about your high school cafeteria; think about the people; the shouting, the stupidity. Imagine that amplified by pot.

And pot smells like shit.

It's too easy to grow. Tobacco and alcohol are hard shit to make, especially considering what a nutrient sucking fuck-plant tobacco is.

If you can grow it in your own basement with nothing more than some water and a lamp, how is the government going to tax it?

It's a stupid, stupid world.

Great plan. I've got another. Lets increase the penalty for all felonies (and some misdemeanors) to death. Then we can see it's effect on society, and nobody would be put in jail. I am quite certain there would be important progress on creating a more open and more good society.

Besides that, if you legalized marijuana, it would be impossible to reverse.

The smell must be a matter of opinion, even so, that is no reason to keep it illegal.
In the frisbee accident, who's fault is it? The person not watching their child? The child's? The driver's? It is really hard to say, and it's not any one persons fault. Um... I don't ever see stoners speed 68 mph through a residential area... It's not cocaine man..
Also, people who smoke weed, smoke it regardless of the law, there are already people doing it, and in increasing numbers... I support legalization, REGULATION and EDUCATION. Regulation can be a tax, laws for driving, for owning certain amounts, etc. Education will teach people the dangers as well as the positives.

Have you seen people high? It doesn't make them stupid, they may slip up a few words, but it doesn't make anyone stupid, loud or obnoxious unless its in their own personality. A cafeteria full of high people won't be louder than a sober one, probably quieter..

It's not nutrient sucking.. It has a VERY important role in the nitrogen cycle, it is one of the few and precious plants in this world that produce nitrogen.
The government can tax the seeds you buy, the weed people sell at shops, papers, etc. Even if it doesn't turn out to be a ridiculous amount (though it will be), the U.S. government will have far more spending money from less need to fund this fucking "War on Drugs".

Increase in penalties is not working towards an open society. Think of it this way, why do people go to jail? Because of the failure of government and society to keep people happy. An open society will reward good behavior and avoid bad behavior by teaching people from a young age how much they have to be thankful for and how important it is to share.
People will not stop smoking weed because of worsened laws, besides, why would you make worse something that is already THE FUCKING PROBLEM? People go to jail for years for smoking weed. I don't think you understand how utterly ridiculous and "downpressive" that is..
And regarding making it illegal, I have two comments: 1) Why would we need to make it illegal again? 2) Weed used to be legal, why couldn't it be made illegal again?

Sorry for the double post, but...

It's about time I mention this "War on Drugs".
I won't go into any kind of detail, but I will explain how it is wrong.
In 2004, 250,900 prisoners went to jail for drugs. People will not stop using drugs, you can never end the drug trafficking through force unless you search every asshole, every peanut butter jar, every cigar box, etc in every boat, every plane, every car and every person. When a drug dealer is arrested, it is MORE incentive for others to move in. That is where gang violence comes from. That is where the ridiculous amount of philadelphia shootings come from and thats why one of my local schools just had a shooting because a crip brought in a gun over drug/gang issues.
I know too many people how have been penalized for something so harmless as marihuana.
Back to prison figures, do you know what one of the nations fastest growing private industries is? The prison system. The U.S. has way more prisoners per population than any industrialized nation. At 40,000 dollars per prisoner per year, the drug war is costing way too much. Do the math yourself for 2004. Oh yeah, that is not to mention all the work that goes into the police force for this "enforcement".
Did I mention that blacks and Hispanics are specially targeted for drug use by cops more than whites?

Heres a story. Provider of a black family in philadelphia, lets say his name is Lamar and his wife's name is Lauren. They are in their mid twenties and live a very humble life with their two young children. Lamar gets pulled over for speeding, the cops illegally search his car because he is black, he is then caught with 1/4 ounce of weed and some shrooms. Lamar goes to jail for at least the better half of a decade, meanwhile his two children at home with their mother have no choice but to live with their grandparents who don't have much money either or a great household for children to grown up in. Now the grand parents have the burden of raising and paying for children on their little saved money and money from S.S.
Why? Because Lamar enjoyed a freedom that we should all have. Imagine this across the nation, happening all the time. Now Lamer is in the wasteful and wealth hoarding prison system that our taxes pay for. He is given styrofoam boxes 3 times a day with meals in it. He does no work to keep busy or contribute back to society, and is instead a huge parasite on our economy and our environment. I bet you all love the idea of your taxes paying for every prisoners meals and happy work-free* lifestyle in prison.

*note: some prisoners get work release in which they pick up some trash which is just moved to another piece of land

Can someone tell me how the drug war is helping, PLEASE?

IT IS TIME TO LEGALIZE, REGULATE, AND EDUCATE.