The way it works, medic is the most likely unit you will random.

The reason I think that shield amount should be higher but regenerated every few seconds,
rather than a small amount regenerated every trig cycle, because small dmg rapid-attack units will lose more dmg than high dmg slow-attack rate units.

Example: Assault stimmed, shoots about 2x faster than Psion, to do roughly the same dmg to cannons— However, since it takes 2 shots for rine to do the same dmg, it would have to go through the shields twice, not to mention the cannon's armor twice. This would decrease rine's effectiveness by 40 dmg per 2 attacks (if the shields are at 10) while psion's would only be reduced 20 dmg per 1 attack.

Now if the shield was recharged every few seconds instead, the rine's rapid rate would be able to shoot through the shield faster and get the hp quicker before it recharges. Since the shield isn't recharging per cycle it doesn't act as much like armor.

OH. Why didn't he make it equal chances?

UU PM me and I can tell you how to make your randomizer more random.

I put in the random beacon. It uses four randomized switches with 16 outcomes, 12 of which link to the heroes. The other four do nothing and there is another randomization in the next trigger cycle. There is no skewing of odds contained in the triggers.

That's one way to go about it, but I think there is a possible error in your triggering because when I play as BLUE PLAYER I have never EVER gotten anyone besides DARK MAGE or MEDIC and it's a shame because I love being blue player, but i HATE Dark Mage and Medic characters.

It isn't like a seperate set of randomization triggers is running just for Player 2.
It's randomization. Weird shit that may not seem random can and will happen. If there is a cause in the triggers, I have no idea what it could be.

Well, perhaps next time I play I'll be blue again and see if I can get a different character. It just seems unrealistic that out of so many games....

Happened to me once before in a different slot (p5?), best way to make it more random, is choose third. Your pick is semi-based off what others choose.

Considering there is no reward for destroying cannons (2 exp or something, if even that) there is no impetus to destroy them, and it's difficult to. Because spawn die so ridiculously fast to even a single cannon, you are forced to basically tank the cannon until marines, at which point they rip through and don't really need your help anyway. Tanking a cannon makes you hugely more vulnerable to hero kills, and there's no reason for you to kill the cannon in the first place. Doing so just gives your opponent more opportunity to kill your spawn, because they don't get killed by enemy cannons.

This doesn't even take into account that by killing cannons at an outpost, you have no defense of that outpost if you capture it without rebuilding them, which isn't worth the money anyway. Any player with a brain simply takes down the pylon, which dies 3 or 4 times faster than a cannon anyway, captures, and then rebuilds it for 5 minerals.

If you take down cannons at a base, you have access to their Spawning Gates! Woohoo! Too bad killing those is pretty much an auto-loss. Not to mention that your spawns clump up to attack them (not that they do any damage) and basically feed the enemy.

Thof dozens of reasons that the metagame of Temple Siege is counter-intuitive and frankly just stupid.

Solutions:
1.) Respawn cannons when capturing an outpost.
2.) Give a significant reward for destroying cannons. (A civilian, for example, or 20 minerals for everyone on your team.)
3.) Make pylons not 3 times easier to kill than cannons.
4.) Improve spawn so that pushing is actually possible without having to tank the cannon.
5.) If your team kill a spawn gate, automatically give exp equal to killing what would have spawned to your team's heroes.

Either 1 or 2, not both. 3 and 4 I think I said were good ideas in my first TS post and never got a response. 5 Moose already agreed was a good idea three versions ago but somehow still hasn't incorporated it.

yea i know the feeling i remember him agreeing with the fact that spawns need to be made stronger a while ago, yet still nothing to be done on that side of the ball even the very least of which is to fix the zealots, which do absolutely no dmg by the time they roll arround due to their taking armor into account twice with its speed attack.

I'm gonna pull a 'Faz' here and point out that I came up with the idea first 100 pages back, but everyone said it was a bad idea.

I hope I don''t make a habit of doing this.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 28 2009, 5:08 am by ClansAreForGays. Reason: copied the wrong solution lol

Stronger spawn would be nice but the first two waves are also used in spells. Hydras also. The best you could do to beef them would be starting the comp with a bunch of upgrades.



I would prefer it if killing the gates gave one package of 50 exp or so(less probably) to the whole team, so defending them becomes much more important.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 28 2009, 5:10 am by zany_001. Reason: CAFG failed o.O

as was pointed out to me by moose himself a while back there are plenty of units he could modify and incorperate into spawn to make a stronger more threatning but not overkill.

broods and lings can both have upgrades and a bit more health wouldn't hurt too much as long as its not more than 20 for each. Rines are near perfect but if the dmg on the other two is improved they may need some improving as well due to players pumping more defense. Zealots need a major boost they can't even cut it in current spawn. Hydras can be completely replaced and more spawn added for lengthier games while were at it.

More hp for lings is very risky, as summoner becomes way more powerful. Broods don't matter so much.

The problem with increasing Zling health is their effectiveness against base defenses. Against heroes I don't think it makes that much difference. In most cases it's the damage that's the problem, not the health of the spawn. By increasing the damage of the (base's) spawn through ups, you're also slowing the exp gain of the Summoner, in this case, it's not that beneficial for him.

Chances are, if you're bothering to improve the spawn's health and damage you'd be increasing the strength of defenses too. With +25 HP to broods and say +30 to Zlings you'd up Cannons to 85-90 in order to keep them balanced. The fact of the matter is that defenses are too weak against late game heroes and spawn anyway. You're just killing two birds with one stone.

@Faz-
Seriously, I'm not curious about why defenses need to be easier to kill or more beneficial to kill. I'm sure Unholy or Moose here can give you like 20 reasons why that's a bad idea. It's pretty simple actually. Defenses are used to defend things. You're killing defenses in order to get those things, sims, bases, etc. If that's not benefit enough then nothing is. Players kill spawn to get minerals and EXP, they don't kill defenses to do that.

That's the reason why Sims giving such low $$$ was a problem. If they don't give a lot of minerals then there's no point defending them. If it's too beneficial to attack them then there's no reason to build them. It goes back and forwards on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.......and on and on and on and on and on and on..........and on......

Edit: The same can be said of Pylons actually. They're easy to kill since they only cost 15 minerals. If it's too easy to kill one just make two.

As far as destroying Gates goes, this is another one of these where I wonder why this hasn't been fixed already. Destroying enemy gates is almost never beneficial. It's a direct feed to someone camping inside their own base. Why are we still doing this?

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 28 2009, 8:14 am by Crackhead.

You completely ignored one of the smartest things -faz has ever said.

For the record in my Phantom work I have come to find randomized switches aren't so random. I don't have a concrete number but I'd estimate 8/10 times a randomized switch will always go one way rather than the 50/50 of set/clear that it should be. As such I find randomized switches not to be a source of true randomization and you should consider an alternate system, perhaps one involving deathcounts.

If the enemy is hiding in their base, or you can't kill them, then you have to hit the temple. The easiest way to do that is to take down the cannons, and ignore the warp gates. But your spawn will kill the gates anyway. By the time you go for their temple, exp shouldn't be a big factor.

How did I ignore this? I just agreed with him, it's a waste of time to kill the gates.
The difference is that this has nothing to do with killing defenses. It's a matter of destroying gates. You don't give a dog a bone because he rakes his way through your door. The problem is why he did it.

The gates shouldn't be killable either way. Giving players leeway or rewards for destroying defenses makes no sense if going passed them is detrimental to you.

Edit: Alternatively, it might be a better idea to end the game if all three gates are destroyed instead of the main base.

Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Sep 28 2009, 7:53 pm by Crackhead.

To be honest i wasn't looking at a major change. i was look at somewhere between 10-20 more hp. broodlings are 50 and maybe put them at 60 with 1-2 more dmg through ups. The lings are at 80 hp and maybe put them at 90 and 2-4 more dmg through ups. This wouldn't be that big of change imo as by time lings come arround they are gona need 10 armor to begin with and for summoner at 11 armor cannons no longer 2 hit the things anyway.

Regardless the broodlings need the most love in terms of hp and zealots the most in terms of dmg. Lings could potentially stay as they are hp wise. If we could replace lings that would be even better but i don't think there is a low enough kill score. Whole idea is to prevent one hitting spawns and then make them slightly more powerful to actually dmg the heros.