I never said the time frame on the exp all i said was the sooner the better for obvious reasons. Btw just because i said i play 1.5 doesn't mean that is all i play. No i'm not conusing the stun one bit. The rine is pretty much the same as he was before Urine screwed with him and the fbat. Personally i could care less if youve faced a 40 dmg at end of day one with stim. that wasn't what i was driving at. The whole complain about 3 was about it being far to powerful late game. 4 only adds insult to injury. It is highly improbable to go beyond certain dmg amounts due to the cost of these upgrades. 57 vs 98 is quite significant considering the first will never get the second dmg amount. I'm saying with teamate sims and play the rine should be able to survive until he reaches the 58 dmg mark which is only 10 ups. After this is reached it becomes over kill and run away.
You're talking out of your ass here. How is +3 Op in the late game? Compared with just about anything in the game he lacks any sort of burst damage that can bring someone from FH > 0. How exactly is this Op? Against what? You're not defining why it's Op. Why would a team mate sim over a Spec Ops? Who are you defining here? Why would you sim for a Spec Ops? What possible benefit do you get out of this as a group? You're throwing unrealistic situations out of nowhere and stating that Spec Ops is overpowered in a late game when he lacks abilities that are capable of ending a game or even abilities that scale with his damage.
A Mut, a DM, a Warrior, an Archer, a Summoner, a LM, a Mech, all of these guys are more threatening as they gain ups. The worst you ever get from a Spec Ops is a lane block from L4 spam. How is his auto attack threatening compared with that? You're deciding it's Op as if someone is going to stand still without using any abilities to defend themselves. The only class that can't defend himself against a Spec Ops is a LM or a Med on round 1. And that's primarily due to stim.
Mech is countered by a Summoner, a Warrior with L3, and an Archer. You can't micro swarm, you can't micro the world's best stun, and you certainly can't micro a Hunter Killer with a Goliath. Let alone that Hunter Killer packing Mutalisks with him.
hmm i think your basing this off the fact that it's a goliath when most of the time you will be facing a vulture. Vultures are one of the best micro'ers in the game. you can certainly kill a few lings if needed. Vultures are pretty good doger's too and would have no problem dodgin a hunter killer with some mutas which i have seen many times. The warrior's l3 is something you just don't mess with. It has a big range but your l4 has much better dmg. You could always let your self be trapped and fire an l4 while transforming in order to take him out so it isn't really a counter. If your using teamates then that isn't a counter either as it is vs more than 1.
Utilizing your team mates is part of the game. The point of the Warrior's L3 is it's range making it that much more difficult for the Mech to dodge and to prevent an escape. If you want to go 1v1 then there's no point using L3. You just pump Health and get L2. Mech may be easy to micro with but it's also the fattest and clumsiest unit in the game. If there's anyone who's going to get spawn blocked it's Mech. You don't need a Warrior to kill him in that case. The Warrior is just largely useful against him due to having a large health pool, a balanced damaging ability, and a ranged stun. Otherwise Mut would be a better counter.
Archer is a counter because you can't kill him without using L4, or Siege tanks, in which case the Archer can use mutas on the Goliath or Tank. Whether it's burrowing hydras, using L4 to kill him while he's stuck inside his own L4 or just auto attacking him to death. The Archer covers the Mech better than the Mech covers him. It doesn't mean you can't win. When you're faced against an enemy that can defend and attack you better than you can, that's a counter. Hell all you need to do with Archer is send out your L3 to kill his base at night while he's on the offensive. You don't even have to leave your own base. Higher Exp gain and base defenses that have a high damage ratio against heavy and medium sized units. Why even bother upping your health when you can just build defenses and attack with hydras endlessly?
Spec Ops doesn't win most fights against the Summoner by just rushing the Summoner and trying to auto attack him to death. It's the same with the Archer. Round 1 is just a straight up win Archer Vs. Mech. Until the Mech gets Bike Mode he can't escape death. Beyond that the Archer Exps better as time goes on and has an equally threatening L4 to the Mech. The difference is that the Archer doesn't need to risk himself to win.
As far as Summoner goes, when I lose against a Mech playing Summoner I'll be impressed. Don't get me wrong, Mech is a great support choice to fight against Summoner if you know how to lane block him. It's not going to win you a game unless you have an actual counter to the Summoner. If you're not packing an Assault or a Spec Ops or a Mut then you're in trouble.
The whole vulnerability of a light mage is because he is imobile. The third spell keeps people who would normally pick on them, on their toes and can help bring them down.
I'll test this. And I stand by my statement L2>L3 until I see otherwise. There's no point defending a bad skill simply because it has some use. Archer's L2 has some use, but it's still an overpriced ability.
Maelstrom, the Mech's L4, the LM's L2, DM's L4 are all totally balanced night attacks then? Anyone of these can kill someone who looks away for 2 seconds.
Hmm didn't know mael storm killed. Learn something new every day. On a more serious note Combine his l3 and l1 and it is unfair. Most heros have little chance when they don't know an attack is coming and the attack is well planned and excuted. Personally i never did like mech's l4 and is another reason why i pref the 1.5 version as it makes them split ups. As for light mages l2 please. If i get hit by that at night the light mage either has prior knowledge of where i am or i'm too stupid to react and run. He moves so slowly that you honestly think hes going to kill me if we notice each other at the same exact time? Even if he has height advantage i should be avoiding those areas at night and fighting near spawn unless i'm hero hunting. Both of those reduce or eliminate dmg i take.
I didn't say any of those will kill someone. I said if you look away for 2 seconds that's all it takes. One Maelstrom followed up by an L2/L3+L4 and that's all it takes. It's no different with an L2 from Mut. The only way those abilities will get you for certain is if you aren't looking at all. Anyone playing the game correctly isn't going to be crushed by an L2 from a Mut just because it's night. That's for sure. More so to the point, the Mut's L2 is probably the least threatening of all the abilities stated considering it has the smallest range of effectiveness. Yeah it's great if someone is banging their head against the keyboard as they pass out. Otherwise I'm relying on Mael, Curses, Reavers, Lurks or Barrage.
An LM even in the corner of your vision can L2 and get you if you're not looking carefully. This is just less noticeable at night as with all HKos abilities. I reason here again that Spec Ops isn't up on this list because his damage is a joke. He's the last person you'll see coming out of the corner of your vision ready to kill you in 2 seconds. Hell, Med can at least Disable. There's a game ender for a Volt and an Assassin at the very least. Mech too if you've got an Assassin.
Goon range enabled since 1.4M5.
Fenix attacks faster than a normal goon. The range isn't all that important since you use them as a trapper primarily. The problem was the damage of the ability. Compare it to his L1 and it doesn't even make him immune to damage or give him any sort of defenses. It's like using L1x2 for 105 gas.
Hey don't get me wrong either, as far as Spec Ops goes, it would be great if he had Sniper Rifle. But, until he has an ability that even comes close to burst, he could use higher base damage. Consistency at the very least would be nice if he lacks the ability to really bring someone down. His L2 and L3 do suck pretty badly. Although I do find them useful a lot more often than I would like to admit personally.
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 23 2009, 4:26 am by Crackhead.
None.