Well, you all know me as a long-time SEN member and terrainer. Lately I've been too busy with my actual life and such to really be active here, but I'm hoping to finish atleast a single map. I've procrastinated on loads of nothing for far too long. I've already shown this around a bit on B.net, but I'm in need of some help with ideas. I'm sorry if this in the wrong section!

Anyways, I'm working on a fairly simple arena map, where the key difference between most arenas is very simple: Every hero has a spell/ability that is controlled by a detectable ability (morph to lurker, burrow, hallucinate, dark swarm, etc.). This is motivated by my long-stated dislike for gateway systems and a desire to speed up spells and integrate everything into a single control. I mean, you don't use two sets of controllers on a console, right? Anyways, I'm contemplating having several game modes, so please hear it out and give me some suggestions:

Current Hero Setups:
Hydra: Turns into lurker egg (which doesn't transform), gains defense and has lurkers put underneath as an attack to ward off any enemy heros nearby.
Probe: Buildings generate powerful summons.
Zergling: Burrows (currently causes it to "teleport" and switch places with other players, is really lame).
High Templar: Makes people "dance" with hallu (really silly, was Inferno's awesome idea).
Reaver: Building 10 scarabs raises shields which automatically dissipate if you attack, essentially it is defense that lets you chase enemies or run away.
Defiler: Dark Swarm summons Infested Terrans as bombs. Simple.

Current Game Mode ideas:
Classic "Hero Arena": Race to X amount of kills
Capture the flag/hill/area: Name says it all, get points for holding an area from enemies
Guard the "X": Pretty straightforward, if this dies you die.

Another key issue: With most detectable spells you only get one per unit. If I want to have spell switching, most would require a second hotkey, thus largely nullifying my idea. Is this really necessary and will people nag for lack of it? How pub-friendly is the whole idea? Anyways, thanks! Your contributions would be greatly appreciated.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 24 2009, 6:17 am by The Great Yam.

You forgot the High Templar making people dance .

Oh yeah! FIXED!

Have you played r00ks Antz or w/e? He handled the queen so that every time it burrowed, the current ability changed. This would work for defiler and hydra, so they burrow to change 'weapon' and auto unburrow, and when they Swarm/morph to lurk, their current ability is used. And use a hero HT or it wont be able to attack, and let it use storm so it has two abilities.

You could make it so if the reaver builds 10 scarabs, it changes into hero reaver, and same thing to change back. One could have really high shields, and its scarabs are replaced with something else like a scout, with weak attack. The other reaver has high attack but low HPs.

Can't think of any way to give the ling more abilities other than a corsair that is constantly moved oveq top, and burrow changes what the Dweb does. Maybe one teleports, one freezes, one damages.

And probe can already summon several types of units sn Every hero has several abilities.

...I don't like any of that. You seem to miss my point entirely. I want ONE unit to control ALL the spells.

However, having multiple abilities instead of just one will make your game more interesting. Here's what I suggest:

Toggle which ability will be used by burrowing, Use ability with lurker morph.

You can even add something like a power meter above the characters that they can time their spells to have stronger ones. What's wrong with that? You won't need multiple units to manage.

Ahk, so the said units are off to the side, and they are used instead of a gateway! I thought they WERE the heroes. In that case, do what norm said. Also make it obvious what the current ability is, with leaderboards, the hydra health, and a msg

...The units ARE the heroes. I just don't want anything other than them to control them... but listen. Only hydra, probe, scv, drone, and what, uh, defiler have more than one detectable ability... I kinda want more heros than 5. And SCV and drone suck.

I need to come up with a good switching mechanism that can be accessed through the controls of just one unit. I like the idea of a power meter, but I dunno how easy it would be to use. I'd also like some suggestions on what KINDS of spells I should have, like, big scarab esplosions or whatnot. Also, I got an idea for a gamemode or two (the word ladder sprung my mind):

Last Man Standing (1):
All players receive 1 life, full upgrades, full hp, etc. The final player remaining at the end is the winner.
Last Man Standing (2):
Instead of above, very simply, heros revive but very very slowly. The goal is to have all enemy players down in revive when timer runs to 0.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 25 2009, 5:40 am by The Great Yam.

If they ARE the heroes then my ideas would work.and you can have a siege mode tank instead of what I said for the reaver, and sieging changes form(hero tank and tank) with the same differences in hp and attack.

Does there HAVE to be no other units? Like, a corsair over the zergling?

How do you detect this one?

Also, I'm doing an AoS with the same general idea that spells shouldn't all be through unit-training systems. Just saying this now if I hear some noob saying I stole your ideas.

"Player X" commands "at least" "10" "Protoss Scarab".

How about;
Infested Kerrigan (burrowed units surround her, consume to cast some sort of spell) [maybe that should be added to the defiler?]

Are air units allowed?

Hallucinations are detectable. (Different spells for whoever you Hallucinate, rather cool.)

Mutalisks Morphing (Dev and Guard)

Carriers Attacking (1-7 Ints can each be a spell, and the 8th can be the one that moves it back to 1 int)

Corsairs Webbing (Webbing under itself could be 1 spell, and webbing someone else could be something else. Webbing a terrain only area may be a good 3rd spell, like a mine/trap or something.)

Morphing to a DA/Archon is detectable (have the other one just follow the first one around, continuously moving.)- Yes, I know it's a bit of a stretch on the "1 unit only" thing, but it'll give you another hero. DA can have multiple spells, Such as MCing different units gives you different effects, and FB and Mael can be side-spells.

Esnare is detectable, allowing Kerrigan to have a spell and Storm and Cloak.

Infesteds are Detectable. (Just tell it to attack, and it'll blow up on it's own. I think this one would be a rather cool hero.) You can detect where it dies, and then detect who's near it for different spell effects.

-I'm sure there are more, but I need to go.

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As for the spells, if you need any ideas, let me know. I can always give you some nice looking/Effective/Big/Small/DD/vHP or whatever type of spell. I always have ideas, and I always can crack some out for you.

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I like the Last Man Standing (2). It'll make the game last a bit longer, but not too long. It also doesn't let players lose hope. They can come back, fighting in fury. It allows grudges, anger, and adrenaline to be used in the game.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 25 2009, 7:29 pm by Mini Moose 2707. Reason: Page distortion. ([line] tag exists)

Some ideas for game modes:

• Lone Wolf -- One player starts as the lone wolf. You gain points from being the lone wolf. When you're the lone wolf, everyone else is against you and allied to each other. When someone kills the lone wolf, they become the lone wolf. Whoever has the most points at the end or gets a set amount of points wins.
  
• Elimination -- Each player starts out with a set amount of lives. When you die you lose a life. When you're out of lives, you spectate until the game is over. Last man standing wins. EDIT: This is like your idea "Last Man Standing" but a bit different .
  
• VIP -- Each team has a VIP to start. It is randomly selected. The other players on the team must defend the VIP. If the VIP dies, then the other team gains a point and a new VIP is selected. The first team to get to a set amount of points or has the most points by the end of a timer wins.
  
• Red rover -- One team (starting out with full health) has to control a border in which the other team (who have lower health) need to pass. The team controlling the border can't leave the border. You get points for each team member that successfully got across. After everyone dies or gets across, a new round starts and the team that had to cross the border are now the border guards. The border must be large enough that the defenders can't cover the entirety of it. Alternative names: Mexican border hopping ;o.
  
• Territories -- Areas around the map must be captured. For having one captured you get one point a second, two captured earns you two points a second and so on. Whoever gets a set amount of points wins.
  
• Alternative territories -- Like the original territories game, except NPC units roam the territory, guarding it from the other team. There is also a time limit, and whoever controls the most territory by the end wins. You capture a territory by eliminating all NPC guards from it. Alternative names: Own the arena.
  

All I could think of for now. It's a pretty impressive list in my opinion.

oh man, i remember this. The only thing i can think of to recommend is more effects, like exploding kakarus or something. And better terrain.

I like inf's idea of lone wolf, and VIP, but I think the VIP should be a player, and the player is weakened.

Maybe your can throw phantom mode or "whos the rapist" mode into this?

You can detect hallucinations? wut. Didn't know that.

It would be a player .

Mad Zombie, it's simple: Just center a location constantly to potential hallu-targets. It will center on hallus. If there aren't any, it will go to the center of the map, and reset. Look up hallu gunner in the DLDB or tutorials, I'm pretty sure it's in there.

I like the Lone Wolf, VIP, and Red Rover game modes alot. The red rover could have like, a line of beacons going across the map to show the border.

Unfortunately, alot of these units require me to use air, which I'm hesitant to do. It adds a lot of difficulty to balancing an arena and making the game work properly. Dark Archon, however, seems like a very likely new hero, though you can't undo merges. So DT is unlikely as anything but a spell unit. I'm considering siege tank, but it's so hard to get it to unsiege that it may have to have immobile defense spells, which is alittle too much like Hydra.

Maybe something like this: Siege mode is a "drilling machine" which plants "seeds" (chrysalis powerup). These grow into full plants (sunkens). So it's like you're fighting in a combo tank and seeding machine. Farmer Brown's Tractor of Death!

Ok, now thats just plain awesome. i like the tractor idea except maybe have the seed be a zerk egg instead, that way another hero could destroy it before it sprouts, but give it high hp and armor maybe