Especially for a hero that is unhittable to some at night. =o

The juxtapose there is that the Armored Refineries are built by the SCV, which is a Level 2 spell. So that's a spell upgrade you have to get first before you can build them, and unlike Probes which can just start the Refinery and run, the SCV has to manually build it, so if it gets destroyed before the Refinery is done, it doesn't finish and you're out of luck, as well as the resources spent to build the thing. And then you've got to use another 50 gas on another SCV. And I think the SCV gives a nice bit of exp too, though I'm not sure.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 28 2009, 7:14 pm by DrakeClawfang.

SCV gives the same exp as Probe (because they have the same Killscore)...

Your summoner's idea is interesting... I'll think about it.

I will relook at the Firebat's stats... so far, I shall bare in mind the following:

-Above Avg HP (4800)
-Splash Dmg (32+4)
-L2 SCV which can build Armored Refineries and Cloaked Defenses
-Mine capping
-Mine Drone L4 (uninvincible after spell finishes)
-Sci-vessel L3.. (max 4)
-Somewhat fast with Stim
-Melee unit
-Cannot stun
-Cannot attack air....
-Does less damage to certain units.

Again, I'll probably lower its HP... I can also alter the cost/buildtime/HP/Dmg of the Defenses and Refineries

Actually, I haven't had any problems killing the bat as a medic, it's not that hard really. Most of the Time I have more Health than the firebat due to medic spamming XD and when it runs up close to me I disable it. =l There. Problem Solved.

There is one thing I'm not certain about, and that is the change in medics "full" heal in 1.5... it doesn't full heal teammates anymore. That I can understand as it was very overpowered and would often result in my team winning. That is not the case anymore... but I'm just asking how much it heals teammates now, because it seems to change often (in the middle of the game)

the medic fh now heals your allies to 20% above their current hp level, so if their hp is currently at where they get 40% of their max hp, they get 60% of their max hp with fh.

That's a good change, that Full Heal changed the flow of the game too much on both sides. Like, whenever I had a Med on my team it was like "ok guys, just don't die before I get FH", and we'd just play focusing on the Med because she healed us. Against Med, it was like "kill Med and/or stop her from leveling", and when she had FH "gg, they got it". On both sides, I found almost any game with a Medic focused on her. One guy I played with even held FH hostage, refusing to heal us unless we did what he said. I realize that's extreme, but still.

Having the Full-Heal heal to max HP +% also gives incentive to get HP ups, as with old FH they were a waste.

yeah i only wish there was an incentive for the medic to actually get hp as she still heals to full but i'm unsure how to fix that. I guess it will be like the summoner and lightmage always grabbing mana.

Agreed.

Um, one other thing. Any comment on the level up option to increase the spawn number? Upgrading spawn, depending on the opponent is risky but potentially rewarding. But spawn number, I've never seen anyone take that. Does Unholy have anything to say on that, because really it *is* a waste of a level.

What if instead of spawn number, some sort of other option was made available at level up? We've got an option that gives minerals, what if we had a level up bonus that instantly gives you so much mana, maybe a percentage based upon your max? Could be useful in certain situations.

actually its not too bad and its cheaper than buildding men and bumps up the next level of spawn with 3 i believe so after 3 its an extra hero spawn. If spawn rushing it is quite effective to do both provided you know what you are doing.

True, but spawn rushing itself is something I almost never see. The spawn level ups in general, both number and rank, are very rarely used. Whenever I see the spawn upgrade used, it's right at the start to overwhelm opponents, or at the end when their defenses are gone to speed up the destruction of their base. And as I said, upping spawn number, I've never seen. Spawn rushing in general can easily backfire, it depends on who the enemy heroes are and if they can handle the upgraded spawn.

the only game i've ever experienced with spawn rushing was in 1.4, but in 1.5 the outcome would have been the same. It was a 2v2, and once the other team both got 5 civs, and even a little more, the upped spawn and spawn number, so it was their marines vs. our broods. I was summoner and easily ds'd and used lings, and raped them with over 5000 exp and 85 ups by the end, when it was archers companions... imo it is another make or break strategy. Another option might be to make a limit on how often you can heal, and then giving an option to decrease that time. Moose is kinda doing this in 1.4 he said, where the heal will be behind the temple, and you wont be invince at the temple... this would add more strategy for an option that almost noone uses ne ways (the up spawn number).

Once, I played a team that just got 20 civs and upped straight from broods to hydras, and raped us. I don't know many heroes that could stop that.

Yeah, I had a medic do that one. I figured he was just saving for Full Heal, and then hydras were in our base. Funnn.

well i been thinking on the spawn and i think we need to change it. as much as i do not like the spawn up one level i think it needs to go to +1 level because it gives too much exp otherwise. I also think it could be stood to made a bit stronger if we do this. maybe more hp and a bit more dmg? The spawn upping may need to be changed to 5 civs though if made this way. I think this would further improve the feed and make them more apt to be able to kill opponents if used correctly.

i would not mind discussing this more on both kill score and units we could possibly use for this.
What units can we use and can we play with any of there stats? Also would you mind listing the exp for these as well?

It would be nice to do range/melee with each group but that may just not be possible. broods, lings, hydras, goliaths are the ones that i can think of that can be messed with the least before they screw something up.

Question - since in 1.5 the Mech's Rail Gun uses Wraiths, are Vultures being used for anything?

they may be the ones now in the drop ship for the marine stun rounds. this caused problems when it was the hero vulture so that may be where they are. It has been a while since ive used that spell though so idk.

Ah, okay. This may seem like an odd thing to say, but I was hoping in some future version we may see another Terran mechanical hero. I realize the Mech kinda fills that spot with its modes, but it's still the only Terran mechanical hero when there's like, four Terran infantry heroes. I was kinda thinking that Vulture could be made into another hero, if a gimmick could be thought of for it.

Personally, I think Goliath (Mech) and Vulture should be two separate heroes. Both units are very good micro units and are very different. Vulture would be a very good hunting hero on it's own. Goliath and tank could still stay together, as those fit well enough.

What I was thinking for the Vulture was a Trap Maker, it can lay various traps. Like, how the DM has various weakening spells and the Volt has various paralyzing spells, the Vulture would have various Traps that when used, lay down at the Vulture and trigger when an opponent draws near. There could be a damaging explosive trap, a mana drain trap, a stun trap, etc, etc, pick your favorite four whatever they may be. Like, I see some Rine/Fbat players run around leaving Mines all over the map, that's the way the Trap Maker Vulture would work, not good for straight-up fighting but he can dash around the map leaving all sorts of nasty traps to catch opponents off-guard. Sort of like fighting an Assassin or Earth Demon, "tread carefully", that sort of thing.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 2 2009, 1:49 am by DrakeClawfang.

hmmm... but this would take away from mech being a versitile enough hero... The only way i can see other terran vehicle heroes coming into play would be if unholy took out certain spawn building units such as the vulture and changed them instead into a hero, since most of the units are used up already.... But i could see mech as taking on more of a beastly role, with maybe one of his spells including bcs or something... hmm.... i'll have to think about it.