I love playing Temple Siege but admittedly suck at it. So I realize my opinion may not be as valuable as an experience player's. But, I have to say that as a whole, 1.5 is a lot better than 1.4. There seem to be a lot of more options for gameplay, the units are more balanced, and as a whole it's a lot more difficult and skillful than 1.4. I'm eagerly looking forward to the completed version, the even further changes sound interesting.

I had a couple spell ideas, but there's only one I think is really viable. With the Dark Mage, I notice with Curse of Weakness, because it's animation indicates it is being used before it takes effect, players will often just run away if they can. Then, even if Curse takes affect and stops them from attacking, they'll just run and sit in their base until it wears off. And this stop them from feeding for a bit, but ultimately isn't really a detriment, just a sort of nuisance. I had an idea for the Dark Mage's level two spell to perhaps cause a bit more disruption, while still fulfilling roughly the same purpose as the original.

My idea is to replace Curse of Weakness with a spell called "Curse of Confusion". As with Curse of Weakness, Curse of Confusion stops the affected enemies from attacking the spawn (p7 or p8) and the Dark Mage for its duration. However, it has another effect - the player's ally status with all other players, teammates, enemies and allied spawn alike, are randomized to Ally or Enemy. This can create a lot of stress for players as they suddenly don't know who they can attack, and furthemore may end up attacking their allies if they leave their hero unattended. For heroes like the Mech or Light Mage, who spawn units to attack with their spells, it's particularly harmful because their attack spells could accidentally target an ally by mistake. The player would have to quickly figure out who's friend and foe, and be careful with their hero to avoid attacking the wrong player.

What do you think, could this spell work?

EDIT - Ah, also, dunno if this has been noted by others but there was a glitch in one of the 1.5 version (sorry I don't recall which one). . I only saw it happen once though - my enemy was a Mech in Assault Mode (Goliath). He cast his spell to switch to Bike Mode (Vulture) just as the Assault Mode died. The message of his death was displayed, he lost a life (Emitter I mean), but he now controlled the Mech's Bike Mode with full HP at the spot he died. Play proceeded normally after this, and he could cast spells and stuff normally, but it was still a surprise to the players involved.

So, yeah, if that glitch was previously unknown, just FYI. I've seen a similar glitch where the player gets an invincible Vulture (not Bike Mode, I mean a normal Vulture), but not this.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 19 2009, 6:16 am by DrakeClawfang.

Thanks for liking my map <3.
Acknowledging that you are an "Inexperienced" player, v1.5 may be better for you as it has more choices and more variety. Many people played v1.4 and played it so much that they like to resist changes. But in v1.4, there are changes that need to be made, and again, I'm glad you like my map

@Curse of Confusion: It is a very interesting idea. Inflicted foes will have to either choose to escape into their base, or continue to attack the DM with the risk of attacking his own teammates. However, for the DM herself, using this curse will not guarantee her safety, as the person may still want to attack her... In gameplay, the person can simply keep clicking on the DM, and when she becomes their enemy, they use their spell... So this doesn't really help the DM...

One way for this to actually work is that when the inflicted player's alliance status changes, there's a explosion that indicates whether he is allied or unallied with the DM and her team. This be random, and lean more towards allying with the DM (3/4 ally with DM's team, unally with teammates... 1/4 ally with teammates, unally with DM's team).. It's an interesting idea, but may be difficult to put into practice... I'll keep the spell in mind.

@Goliath Glitch.. It's known already .. but it's okay, cause it's hard to pull off

Well, my idea was that the spell always sets the DM and her allied spawn to Ally, so the player still can't attack the DM or grind. That wouldn't be random, it would be for certain. Then, the individual ally status among each other player would randomize, not just between the two forces, but among each individual player. So Curse of Confusion could potentially, along with the DM and Spawn, set one of the DM's teammates and one of the inflicted player's teammates to Ally, but set the other teammate and the player's allied spawn to Enemy. And of course as you said, it could be set so that setting the DM's teammates to Ally is random, but more likely than setting them to Enemy.

The way I see Curse of Confusion affecting the player, is they'd be like "great, who can I attack now?", forcing them to possibly have to steer clear of allies and their base to keep their unit from attacking them, and depending on the unit making them disinclined to use attacking spells to avoid attacking their teammates. I do see the point though in that, the player can still hang around and pursue the DM since they can potentially still attack her teammates.

Thanks the feedback though, just wanted to give my 2.6 cents.

EDIT - Also, another question. Has there ever been any concern over the Dropship spell being overpowered in allowing the user to enter it? I realize I'm noob but it always seemed unfair to me that my enemy can just climb into a Dropship and run away whenever they like. The four paralyzes/Firebat bombs are fine, it's that the user can get inside that bothers me. A lot of the heroes of melee, and only a few of the attacking spells can hit air, so I often see the player with the Dropship, regardless of if it's the Firebat or the Marine, climb in the Dropship to avoid spells, sneak into bases/outposts, or just in general to run away.

I play Mutant a lot, and once the enemy gets the Dropship I basically can't touch them because the second I approach they get in the ship and fly away. Of course, the Archer, Psion, Mech and some spells can kill the Dropship, I know that it's not invincible, but a lot of units can't really do much. IMO - Warrior, Assassin, Mutant, Medic, Dark Mage, Summoner and Phantom - that's about half the heroes that don't really have anything to counter the Dropship. And I don't mean countering its bombs, they can be avoided, I mean they can't counter the enemy hero getting inside the Dropship to escape. Compare to the methods of killing it - Archer, Psion and Mech can kill it outright, Light Mage can use Level 3 spell, I believe the Volt's level 2 pulls it in, and depending on if it's the version where the Marine or Firebat use the spell, the Marine can stim and chase it, and the Earth Demon can spawn Hydras.

Any comment on this?

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Jul 20 2009, 8:48 pm by DrakeClawfang.

Kinda offtopic, but unholy will there be another topic for temple siege? (since this is marked 1.5 and you're going for 1.6 now)? or will i stay with this topic?

The Dropship is kind of OP, but it being able to transport the hero is the whole point of it... Rather, the bombs are there to justify why it is an L3 spell, and not L2...

The thing is tho, if the hero is in the dropship, if the dropship dies, then the hero dies along with it, and I've seen many people make this fatal mistake. I understand that many heroes can't do anything to the dropship.. but the dropship isn't something critical that'd cause the game... When the guy gets on the Dropship, he still needs to run or face his dropship smashed into bits. If there're no heroes that can kill the dropship, then that team'd have to focus on killing someone else, or raiding the temple.
(Rather, the dropship being able to carry the ghost and use it to nuke is more "broken" in this perspective)

My entire thing about the dropship is that if you can't hit him well, he really can't hit you. In that way, if all he's gonna do is run away in a dropship, he'll be safe but you 1. have a free feeding time for spawn, whereas he can't train at all, and 2. have free reign over his base, if he's the only one defending that part of his base. Nuke and dropship were op, because it allowed the player to destroy the enemy's temple, even when they had no chance of winning the game, and basically made it so 1 team could suck, one team could rock, and the sucky team could still win. Overall, i think the dropship is alright now.

Now...
as to the curse of confusion, i still dont understand exactly how this would work. Basically, you're saying make the already kinda strong dm stronger by giving her a boost to her already really strong curse? So it has the same effect as before, it allies the player to the player controlling the dm, but also randomizes allied status between the player hit by the curse and all the other players? Unless the player hit is noob, they wont cast spells if their allies are near them, knowing that 1. they wont hit the dm, and 2. they could hit their allies. So i really dont see the point in adding this o the spell. As dm is now, she's fine to me.

True, goods points. Alright, thanks for explaining. ^_^

Hey there,
I have just signed up for Staredit network and this was the very first thread I saw, and, me being an experienced Temple Siege player (MEDIC FTW ) I have decided to add my part to this thread.

I have had an idea for one of the Earth Demon's spells... perferably the FINAL or l3. Here is the description:

Fissure: Teleports all nearby enemies into a seperate area outside the main arena, (A fissure splits open the Earth and nearby enemies fall into it) and then they have to navigate their way out of a somewhat small cavern, all the while taking damage from burrowed lurkers. (unburrowing them would result in the death of them, then a trigger would respawn the burrowed lurker in that spot) When a player reaches the end of the cavern, they will teleport back into the spot they came out of (or to their respective temples).

I have made my suggestion and am nervously awaiting a reply!

Good day

that sounds freaking awesome lol. although i'm not sure how practical it would be but yea that sounds so neat.

the only problem with "teleport out of arena" spells is that they unbalance gameplay very easily... for example, this would allow ed to counter most of his counters, such as volt, mutant, ect, by using it on them when they get close. it would then give him too much time to run away. It's good that you're making suggestions, i just dont think a spell like this would be right for ts.

well unholy is already thinking about putting one in for the earth demon as his l1. double cast is suppose to swallow heros although not exactly sure how it works. that is what he last thought though.

you read wrong killer...


it wont remove them completely from play. the problem with the other one arises in, say, volt captures ed in his l2... ed can just use that spell and teleport the volt away, completely nullifying all of the volt's spells, because the volt cant get near him.

I was wondering, Unholy, you indicated you may consider the Dropship-Ghost combo a bit overpowered. What if there were a way to make it so the Dropship could only carry one passenger at a time? Then the Marine/Firebat couldn't accompany it and protect it.

still conused cause it sounds like cavein and stun is removing from play. am i wrong? idk confused i guess

lol dodge the spikes mini game inside ts

Is bat going to be weaker in the new version? Because bat is way too good in 1.5d... (What else do you need? High hp, high damage, easy sims, good at defence, extremely fast exp, etc...)

Actually it's going to be better ... (He can get SCV at L2)
But I can lower its HP for sure ...

It isn't that strong when you consider the Spawn Leader is ranged...
but again, it does splash....
This is something that I shall put into the balance landfill part of the map

Also, I highly thank you, Unholy, for making the Archer's l2 spawn two Drones instead of one. Before when it spawned one, considering making anything cost more gas on top of the spell cost, it was almost a waste and needed too much time and mana.

One other thing, with the Earth Demon, I've seen its L4 and it's a bit op I think. I've had it used against me and the shaking and screen-shifting are highly disorienting, but my main problem is that it destroys buildings. I saw a game where an Earth Demon got its l4, and a few HP ups, and ran into the enemy base's cannons and activated l4, destroying all of the cannons and the pylon. He then used it a few more times, and within a few minutes the entire enemy temple' defenses were gone.

This seems a bit too strong for one spell, to destroy an entire cannon range with one casting. And this was a game where the Earth Demon was on my side, and even the player using it was like "Whoa, that's a bit op".

EDIT - Also, I had an idea for the Summoner. I noticed your changing its L3 and L2 spells, and had an idea.

"Abyssal Gate" - to activate this ability, the Summoner must be in close proximity to a Warp Gate, either one at the base or at an outpost. A vortex opens at the Summoner, and Broodlings spawn from the vortex for a period of time. These Broodlings belong to the Summoner, but are set to auto-attack the enemy base. I also thought that at the end of the spell, an Abyssal Demon could emerge, but then this would kinda make l4, which also spawns the Demon, a bit pointless. So perhaps it could spawn something else, maybe Demon Bombers?

Just another one of my half-baked ideas ;p.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Jul 28 2009, 4:13 am by DrakeClawfang.

Early cannon destruction is not a good thing.

Bat is stronger? Ok, that is not good at all...
Bat is probably the best (Maybe one of the best, but is still really good.) unit in this version. Crazy high damage and hp leads to nothing can kill easily, while mines as lvl 4 as always is OP. Anything that counters it (mainly bigger units) usually can be fought of by a teammate, and even then bat still hits a ton to them. (1/4 of +6 ups is a lot still... 100 damage/4 = 25 * 2 = 50 damage per second (almost). Pretty much a better support unit than medic, (Because medics final is kinda too weak now.) and much better in attacking too. And also if scvs is lvl 2 then is vessel lvl 3? What's max vessels? Oh and please make refinaries somehow weaker, still really hard to kill. Maybe instead of weaker costs more, because if you think about it, scv lets your build STRONGER assims with LESS money (because you don't need to buy a probe.) Sure you can't build as fast, but it's still too good.